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Old 06-07-2006, 01:54 AM   #16
miles berg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerm
Berg, you're a coach?...How do you know who they gameplan for and who they don't gameplan for?...Diaw isn't that good, he was rotting on the bench on a losing team for a reason. Marion has been getting 18 and 10 since they kingdom come. Silly Statements.

Cause Marion is just a filler player, a guy like Josh Howard or Antawn Jamison.

You can't build a team around Marion and win big, I believe you can with Diaw. He sat on the bench with the Hawks for the same reason that Ben Wallace did with Washington or why Josh Howard fell all the way to #29, not all GMs are really that smart and alot of them just don't understand real talent.
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:55 AM   #17
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someone said diaw can be a francishe player. I dont think he can be
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles berg
Cause Marion is just a filler player, a guy like Josh Howard or Antawn Jamison.

You can't build a team around Marion and win big, I believe you can with Diaw. He sat on the bench with the Hawks for the same reason that Ben Wallace did with Washington or why Josh Howard fell all the way to #29, not all GMs are really that smart and alot of them just don't understand real talent.
You can't build a franchise around neither. Diaw isn't aggressive and he's lazy. He doesn't bring it every night plus he doesn't play good D. This is the reason why he wasn't played in Atlanta. He can't be depended on night in, night out. That is masked in Phoenix because they're a great team.

His shot isn't better than Marion's (someone said that earlier in this thread). Marion has bad form but his shot is money and he attacks the rim hard unless Diaw with his finesse moves. The only things Diaw does better is handle the ball and pass. Marion is a better defender,scorer,rebounder, he's aggressive and brings it everynight. Diaw is certainly not on Marion's level but for some reason people are obsessed with "versatility". Marion gets it done and gets it done at all star level.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:07 AM   #19
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franchise player??? stop the nosense. marion owns diaw. marion had one of the best stat lines in the league and an all star

Last edited by hotsizzle : 06-07-2006 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:27 AM   #20
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Diaw a Franchise player??? Try a very valuable 3rd option maaybe second for an average team.

I wouldn't get rid of Hughes just to get Diaw if Im Cleveland Miles. I think that system and all of its offensive firepower helps him out, but I don't think he's an allstar. I think Marion's better, but I would trade him for help due to his contract though.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:42 AM   #21
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Diaw isn't that good, he was rotting on the bench on a losing team for a reason.

Yeah... because they are a losing team. A team that focused entirely on the fact that he isnt a big time scorer instead of the fact that he is a great passer and defender. Bad teams are bad for a very good reason. Diaw rotting on the bench was a significant one for Atlanta.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:54 AM   #22
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Bad teams are bad for a reason. They have bad/average players that can't play or for those that can play, they don't bring it everynight. How they acquire such players or why they are stuck with them? Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Bad teams have bad/average players, end of story. You can't spin it any other way.

Last edited by Jerm : 06-07-2006 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerm
Bad teams have bad/average players, end of story. You can't spin it any other way.

I guess Chris Bosh is a bad player then?

And don't give me that "Raps were a .500 team after our initial losing streak" bullshit... you can't spin it any other way
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:16 AM   #24
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Neither are franchise players but i'll take Diaw slightly.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:21 AM   #25
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That is retarded. Bad teams have all-star players, superstar players all the team.

A team's success does not depend solely on the level of talent they have playing. There are a lot of intangibles in it, and the argument Boris Diaw is a bad player because he wasn't getting played on a bad team that didn't understand is game is silly. VERY silly indeed.

As to the question at hand, at this point I'd have to go with Diaw. He's younger, has a better contract, and is a MUCH better playmaker which the Suns will need when Nash's decline begins. His midrange jump shot is more consistent then Marion's, and while not a rebounding freak like Shawn, he pulls down enough for his position. He shoots about the same percentage as Marion, Marion has better range, and before this year Marion was a much better defender. But after seeing Lamar Odom, Sam Cassel, Dirk Nowitzki, and almost any elite scorer he was defending torch him during the regular season + playoffs, I think Marion is forgetting what got him that fat contract and relishing his 22 PPG scoring average.

But most importantly, Diaw averaged 13 for the year, Marion 22. Against Dallas, the Suns biggest test, Diaw goes for 24 a night, Marion 17. Diaw also nabs the game-winner in game 1 away from home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marion, but a lot of what he does, play the PF, score a lot at a high %, weak side blocks, rebounding, will be largley negated by Amare, and to a lesser extent Kurt Thomas, coming back.

And none of this even mentions the fact that this is Diaw's first real season with serious playtime. He could get much better then he was in the regular season, he certainly showed flashes in the postseason. With Marion you pretty much know what you're gonna get. His game is heavily based on his athleticism so I wouldn't be surprised to watch his productivity dwindle as he gets older.

So, if I had to choose for the franchise, Diaw. Marion is a better player now, but I don't think you'll be able to say that in 2 years.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:36 AM   #26
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That is retarded. Bad teams have all-star players, superstar players all the team.

If you have a bag of 15 apples. 13 are rotten completely/partially but 2 are still edible. How do you describe the whole basket?...Good/bad?...You got the point now. Bad teams are full of bad/average players.

Diaw is an average player upto this point. Marion's shot is way more consistent than his both from mid/long range. There's a reason why Marion got 22ppg and he got 13. It's not because Marion keeps calling isos. for himself. Diaw does NOTHING better than Shawn except pass. Sure Diaw can do some of the things Marion does but he doesn't do them on an all star level. Diaw isn't as good as Marion. Many things like contract/age can influence decisions. NJ Nets are thinking about trading Carter instead of RJ, doesn't mean RJ is close to the player Carter is.

Quote:
And don't give me that "Raps were a .500 team after our initial losing streak" bullshit... you can't spin it any other way

Oops. I did it again.

Last edited by Jerm : 06-07-2006 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:41 AM   #27
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I get that, but the way you tried to spin it was making it sound like Atlanta was bad because their players, Diaw being one of the bad apples, were bad and/or didn't bring it every night.

I think Diaw has proved he is actually a very ripe apple. Though I know most Hawks fans seem to resent the success he is having with Pheonix.

And Shawn may have averaged 22 for the the regular season, and Diaw 13, but in THE MOST IMPORTANT GAMES OF THE SEASON, Diaw averaged 24ppg and Shawn 17. Shows to me Diaw has clutch potential, while Marion is, and has been, a notorious playoff underachiever. That's two consecutive WCF he's played like a leetle beetch.

Last edited by Zombles : 06-07-2006 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:45 AM   #28
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Jerm you don't know much about Diaw so don't pretend you do. Bad defender? That's one of the reasons he wasn't playing in ATL? Boris is a great defender. The reason he didn't play in ATL was because he NEVER looked to score, he tried to make the amazing pass every play. He was considered so bad because you didn't even have to guard him.

Both players are extremely unique players. I'd take Marion based on the season and Diaw based on the playoffs. If you watched both you'd know the Suns dilemma. Good news is the Suns have both, Marion will retire a Sun and Diaw will be resigned.

PS. Neither are franchise players.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:51 AM   #29
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I'm glad you live in Canada just like I do. They show the Phoenix Suns every other night out here. Suns/Laker games I watched them all season long so I know what I'm talking about. Howard completely embarassed Diaw whenever he tried to step up to him. Diaw can't defend for shit. He doesn't bring it everynight and that is a big factor. He's not an aggressive individual or one that looks to take over games with whatever he can do besides scoring.

Diaw can't defend. If he can defend then 75% of the league (except for guys like Van Horn that just don't give a shit and want to keep it moving) are awesome defenders. Obviously I don't see this defensive prowess from Diaw. Just like the entire Phx. Sun's team, he can't stop anybody and it doesn't seem like he can. He didn't fare any better in Atlanta. The guy isn't the player Marion is. This isn't a subjective opinion, it's a fact!

Last edited by Jerm : 06-07-2006 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:56 AM   #30
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My family owns a home in PHX so I've seen a few games live, plus I've seen pretty much all the games and I can tell you that Diaw is a great defender.

He was passive at the beginning of the season, but as time went on he was aggressive. We saw the culmination of that in the playoffs.

I can't see why you'd call him an average player. He does MANY things above average.
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