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Old 10-01-2007, 05:22 PM   #31
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by tontoz
Nope. There have been plenty of truly great players that played on bad teams.

Just look at the Bulls during Jordans early years. You wouldn't rank them top 5in the league just because they had Jordan.

Sounds to me like someone needs a pacifier.
Did Jordan ever get to the Finals on those one-man led teams?

No, now let's move on...
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Valiant Valor
All that is irrelevant. Even if that's the case, LeBron is on the team, so the team should be top 3 or 4, atleast.

Basic principle here.
oh i see the issue. you have a lebron-related learning disability.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Valiant Valor
Did Jordan ever get to the Finals on those one-man led teams?

No, now let's move on...

If he and they were playing in last years east, they probably would have. And then took a game or two from SA.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
I hate to side with VV here, but I have to. I just saw on ESPN with their latest NBA Power Poll. They have Houston ranked at 4. HOUSTON. The first round wonders. Who lost to Utah last year. Utah > Detroit? I think not.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerr...n=2008&week=-1

Yes, the Cavs play in the weak Conference, played a decimated Wizards team, a banged up Nets team and a bored Pistons team. But they still won and made it to the Finals. That counts for something.
The Rockets should win more games. I don't know what that poll was about, if it was "Who's got more chances of getting to the finals?", then I'd take the Cavs, but if it was something regarding regular season success... it's clearly the Rockets.

While I agree people here underestimate the Cavs, the fact is they overachieved last year, and until they make the moves they need they should be expected to have a worse season.
Varejao may be a good or bad player, I won't judge him (though I don't like his game), but he was their 1st big man off the bench, and losing him should hurt, if only cause his replacement will have to spend some time before he adapts to the Cavs system.


As for who will be the 1st team in the east for the regular season, anything can happen, tough I'd pick the Bulls due to their depth. But this just applies to regular season, I don't think they'll be that good in the playoffs.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Kobe24

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Old 10-01-2007, 05:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Valiant Valor
Did Jordan ever get to the Finals on those one-man led teams?

No, now let's move on...

No but he didn't have a free pass through the first two rounds.

Put a healthy Arenas and Jamison on the floor and they might not have made it past the first round.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

San Antonio
Dallas
Phoenix
Houston
Utah

I don't know if I can put Cleveland over any of those teams... truth is that Houston, with the addition of Steve Francis, Mike James and Adleman as coach, is a better team than Cleveland. Utah, inspite of losing Fisher and having to deal with an unhappy Kirilenko will field a more experienced Deron Williams with Carlos Boozer and Okur returning and Paul Millsap likely to make more of an impact. Cleveland is not a top 5 team in the league.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
I hate to side with VV here, but I have to. I just saw on ESPN with their latest NBA Power Poll. They have Houston ranked at 4. HOUSTON. The first round wonders. Who lost to Utah last year. Utah > Detroit? I think not.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerr...n=2008&week=-1

Yes, the Cavs play in the weak Conference, played a decimated Wizards team, a banged up Nets team and a bored Pistons team. But they still won and made it to the Finals. That counts for something.
Its all about the media trying to down play the BEastern conference. They think the 6th best team in the west is better than any team in the east (except the unknown big 3 of beanville). Clearly not the case. I agree that Houston shouldnt be ranked higher than the top 2 or so teams in the east (whichever you may choose) even with their offseason acquisitions. Utah... again, gaping hole at the 2 and maybe the 3. Depth in the backcourt is young and unproven. I would say detroit and the bulls and maybe cleveland is better (prob not cleveland)
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

First off all just because they made it the Finals, doesn't mean they are automatically an elite team. Look at a sport like tennis... because some unheard of chick named Barttoli made the Wimbeldon final,does that mean she's #2 in the world? No, she's top 20 though. Or Marcos Baghdatis making the Australian Open final last year led him no where other than the top 10 in rankings and no other major titles/finals. Flukes occur.

Last year's Cleveland team had a rather easy path to the finals. They unimpressively beat a majorly injured Washington. They then beat NJ in 6, despite the fact NJ blew leads in each of the first 5 games, did not have their starting Center and VC had a terrible series. Finally they beat an old and tired Detroit team, on their way to being swept.

As for having a top player in the game.. so what? Kobe's teams have yet to impress, KG has played on some awful teams as of late. One man does not make a team.

As far as I'm concerned most of the playoffs teams in the West would have beaten Cleveland last year, as would have a couple healthy teams in the East (Miami, NJ and maybe Washington)

Spurs
Suns
Mavs
Boston
Houston
Utah
Chicago
Detroit
NJ
Denver

all look to be better teams than the Cavs IMO. Their off-season has not been nearly as good as most of the EC, Z is a year older, Snow is injured, Hughes is still Hughes and Pavs and Varejo (if back) will be unhappy.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
Teams potentially better than Cle:

Golden State
Chicago


We are 3-1 against the Chicago Bulls in the 2006-07 NBA Season and 11-4 overall since the Cavs drafted Lebron in 2003. We also sweep the Golden State Warriors in the 2006-07 NBA Season and show no mercy in the their 2nd head to head matchup even with out Lebron on our lineup..How come they are potentially better than our team since they never beat the Cavs even with a complete lineup.


Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors

Cavs Lead the Series 2-0

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2007.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...E20070130.html

I do not think that the Warriors could match up with the Cavs frontline because unlike Dallas Mavericks, The Cavs got their numbers everytime they meet in the regular season. Now that they lose an explosive scorer in Jason Richardson, which is very hard for them to replace.

I cannot see this team making it in the 2nd round of the playoffs as far as i am concern they just pray that they will meet Dallas in the 1st round again because they will never beat another team in the playoffs. Cavs owned them several times in their head to head match up because the Cavs are the better team.

Last edited by Lebron23 : 10-01-2007 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
Varejao may be a good or bad player, I won't judge him (though I don't like his game), but he was their 1st big man off the bench, and losing him should hurt, if only cause his replacement will have to spend some time before he adapts to the Cavs system.

Dont forget sasha was the first guard off the bench most of the time as well. so it looks like they will lose their first two contributors off the bench and yet nobody on the VV side of the argument seems to think this matters.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #42
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23
We are 3-1 against the Chicago Bulls in the 2006-07 NBA Season and 11-4 overall since the Cavs drafted Lebron in 2003. We also sweep the Golden State Warriors in the 2006-07 NBA Season and show no mercy in the their 2nd head to head matchup with out Lebron on our lineup.


Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors

Cavs Lead the Series 2-0

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2007.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...E20070130.html

I do not think that the Warriors would match up with the Cavs frontline because unlike Dallas Mavericks, The Cavs got their numbers everytime they meet in the regular season. Now that they lose an explosive scorer in Jason Richardson; I cannot see this team making it in the 2nd round of the playoffs as far as i am concern they just pray that they will meet dallas in the round because they will never beat another team in the playoffs ever again.
The point is, this is not about matchups.
The Warriors beat the Mavs last year, but the Mavs were the better team.
(BTW the Cavs are better than the warriors)
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Dont forget sasha was the first guard off the bench most of the time as well. so it looks like they will lose their first two contributors off the bench and yet nobody on the VV side of the argument seems to think this matters.
I expect them to resign him. Not the same for Varejao.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:49 PM   #44
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
I expect them to resign him. Not the same for Varejao.
and I expect a holy rimjob from jesus. hasnt happened yet though, so at this point in the off season you have to assess the cavs as they are currently comprised.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: Enough is enough....ISH's misrepresentation of the Cleveland Cavs has got to stop

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Originally Posted by picc84
Cleveland isnt even top 5 in the western conference, nevermind the east with the Celtics. Teams better than Cle:

SA
Phx
Boston
Houston
Denver

-----5-----
Utah
Dallas

Teams potentially better than Cle:

Golden State
Chicago

Wow Denver over Dallas? Houston over Dallas?

What a joke.
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