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Old 10-04-2007, 06:14 PM   #16
Knoe Itawl
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy2k8
Yes..because we're supposed to take your comments seriously.



I could care less what you take seriously.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl


Good smokescreen, but it doesn't change the FACT that if Kobe Bryant had played like the player he's hyped to be, LA would have had a great chance to win, even with all the other stuff you mentioned (especially the nonsense about the refs, what garbage coming from a LAKER fan. Have you NO shame?)

Speaking of smokescreens. :

Quote:
Nah, Kobe was the MAIN reason LA lost. Not only was he shooting poorly and (for the greatest scorer in NBA history) not scoring nearly enough, but he was also getting stripped, making other poor decisions with the ball and not getting it to his 60% shooting dominant center. Just crap all around.

And it was in all likelihood the happiest moment of your life. Sad. :
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
This is a very misinformed posting... you tried to simplify a very complex dynamic into blaming Kobe.... well, while Kobe was to blame, so was Shaq and so was Laker management... this dynamic played into why Shaq and Kobe are no longer playing together...



yep. lots of things could have been done diferently by all parties...

if kobe had stated "i won't resign with the lakers unless shaq is part of it" then lakers management would have rethought the extension they offered shaq, instead kobe kept silent which only made his stance appear to be choose shaq or choose me, and he only signed with the lakers a day after shaq was traded.

If lakers management had made it clear that they wanted to extend shaq's contract and would stay active and keep discussions open with shaq and his people, instead shaq stuck to his 31 million dollar asking price and turned down 26 mill and demanded a trade. instead they remained quiet and never made a comment like they did when kobe announced he would opt out. mitch said it's our full intention to keep kobe bryant in LA

phil jackson should have never taken the "him or me" stance and demand the lakers front office trade kobe, if he hadn't done that buss wouldn't have pulled the contract extension off the table, which was probably the final straw to shaq since phil was the "only coach i'll ever play for" according to shaq

the whole mess boils down to 3 giant egos in kobe, shaq and phil all wanting their cake and to eat it too, and sadly it would have taken only one of those people to step back swallow some pride and look at what they had going for them and make it work...

lastly lakers management mitch or jerry should have stepped in and told the three to sit down shut up and listen instead of flapping your jaws... i think that is where jery west was missed the most, he would have demanded the attention of those three and pointed out what they were so willing to give up so easily is hard to come by...

so it wasn't a simple thing to clean up and with the egos involved maybe the way it went down was the only way it could have in the end, but who knows for sure, it certainly wasn't as simple as some make it out to be
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

In his prime Shaq was the 2nd best finals player ever. Behind only Jordan and not much behind him. That year was no different. While Shaq should have averaged more than the 11 rpg he did he still would have averaged his usual 33 plus ppg in the finals if he got the ball more. Detroit had no answer for him.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
yep. lots of things could have been done diferently by all parties...

if kobe had stated "i won't resign with the lakers unless shaq is part of it" then lakers management would have rethought the extension they offered shaq, instead kobe kept silent which only made his stance appear to be choose shaq or choose me, and he only signed with the lakers a day after shaq was traded.

If lakers management had made it clear that they wanted to extend shaq's contract and would stay active and keep discussions open with shaq and his people, instead shaq stuck to his 31 million dollar asking price and turned down 26 mill and demanded a trade. instead they remained quiet and never made a comment like they did when kobe announced he would opt out. mitch said it's our full intention to keep kobe bryant in LA

phil jackson should have never taken the "him or me" stance and demand the lakers front office trade kobe, if he hadn't done that buss wouldn't have pulled the contract extension off the table, which was probably the final straw to shaq since phil was the "only coach i'll ever play for" according to shaq

the whole mess boils down to 3 giant egos in kobe, shaq and phil all wanting their cake and to eat it too, and sadly it would have taken only one of those people to step back swallow some pride and look at what they had going for them and make it work...

lastly lakers management mitch or jerry should have stepped in and told the three to sit down shut up and listen instead of flapping your jaws... i think that is where jery west was missed the most, he would have demanded the attention of those three and pointed out what they were so willing to give up so easily is hard to come by...

so it wasn't a simple thing to clean up and with the egos involved maybe the way it went down was the only way it could have in the end, but who knows for sure, it certainly wasn't as simple as some make it out to be

Well said....

Wow, and in one clean brushstroke, Mr. Knoe just blamed Kobe for everything... he has over 2,000 posts, and its all gibberish.



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Old 10-04-2007, 06:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
Speaking of smokescreens. :



And it was in all likelihood the happiest moment of your life. Sad. :

I don't get it. Kobe's been hyped as the best player in the game and a whole bunch of other things, yet he played like garbage in that series. Had he elevated his game to say what Wade did against the Pistons (or even good ol' Bron Bron) then LA would have had a shot. Instead, well we see what happened.

And not the happiest moment of my life, but one of the best moments of my NBA watching life.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
I don't get it. Kobe's been hyped as the best player in the game and a whole bunch of other things, yet he played like garbage in that series. Had he elevated his game to say what Wade did against the Pistons (or even good ol' Bron Bron) then LA would have had a shot. Instead, well we see what happened.

And not the happiest moment of my life, but one of the best moments of my NBA watching life.

One thing I can't understand about past arguments about Kobe, is the fact that whole season will be remembered for Kobe playing poorly in the finals, but it won't be remember for all the off the court distraction Kobe carried around with him that year...

Kobe was a walking tabloid in 2004, he even had just come off of major shoulder surgery...The fact that the Lakers made it that far was crazy...

And what also needs to be pointed out is the fact that 2007 Kobe is better than 2004, no matter which way you put it...

Knoe, people rate him high now because he's better now...2004 Kobe couldn't carry this version of Kobe's bags to the airport...
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
I don't get it. Kobe's been hyped as the best player in the game and a whole bunch of other things, yet he played like garbage in that series. Had he elevated his game to say what Wade did against the Pistons (or even good ol' Bron Bron) then LA would have had a shot. Instead, well we see what happened.

Your "kobe bryant hype" thoughts are well documented as replete with exaggerated gross-generalizations.

Yea, he had a bad series. You use it to define his career. Shocking.

Btw, Kobe the past couple years is better than 2004 Kobe, who wasnt even the best player on the team, as acknowledged by many Laker fans.

Similarly, the post Larry Brown/2004 Pistons are and were far from what they were in the finals series.

Quote:
And not the happiest moment of my life, but one of the best moments of my NBA watching life.

Nobody knows whether you even have an nba watching life outside of the lakers/kobe. Its maybe once in 3 blue moons you have any sort of commentary on anything outside of Kobe or something to do with him. I'm almost 100% positive it was one of the most important moments in your life, nba or not.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Like Kobe was the only one at fault in their whole feud. Please, Shaq had just as big as part in their relationship as Kobe did.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsizzle
Like Kobe was the only one at fault in their whole feud. Please, Shaq had just as big as part in their relationship as Kobe did.

Thats what both gts and I said, but it means nothing to a troll.


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Old 10-04-2007, 07:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
yep. lots of things could have been done diferently by all parties...

if kobe had stated "i won't resign with the lakers unless shaq is part of it" then lakers management would have rethought the extension they offered shaq, instead kobe kept silent which only made his stance appear to be choose shaq or choose me, and he only signed with the lakers a day after shaq was traded.

If lakers management had made it clear that they wanted to extend shaq's contract and would stay active and keep discussions open with shaq and his people, instead shaq stuck to his 31 million dollar asking price and turned down 26 mill and demanded a trade. instead they remained quiet and never made a comment like they did when kobe announced he would opt out. mitch said it's our full intention to keep kobe bryant in LA

phil jackson should have never taken the "him or me" stance and demand the lakers front office trade kobe, if he hadn't done that buss wouldn't have pulled the contract extension off the table, which was probably the final straw to shaq since phil was the "only coach i'll ever play for" according to shaq

the whole mess boils down to 3 giant egos in kobe, shaq and phil all wanting their cake and to eat it too, and sadly it would have taken only one of those people to step back swallow some pride and look at what they had going for them and make it work...

lastly lakers management mitch or jerry should have stepped in and told the three to sit down shut up and listen instead of flapping your jaws... i think that is where jery west was missed the most, he would have demanded the attention of those three and pointed out what they were so willing to give up so easily is hard to come by...

so it wasn't a simple thing to clean up and with the egos involved maybe the way it went down was the only way it could have in the end, but who knows for sure, it certainly wasn't as simple as some make it out to be

Great post. I agree anyone of them could have calmed the issue, but I still think Kobe had more pull on that issue. Shaq knew that he was getting older so he probebly felt the lakers wanted Kobe more anyway.

Kobe had the brighter future based on age. He knew if it came down to it, both Shaq and phil would go before him. His not resigning is what forced the lakers hand. And Shaq knew it was coming.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
but I still think Kobe had more pull on that issue.
no doubt... if kobe had said, "i'm not resigning here if phils gone and shaqs gone" then things would have been greatly changed...his silence spoke volumes as they say...

but at the same time, shaq could have made overtures to kobe, he was still under contract at the time and had 2 years in LA to go.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

If Kobe had more patience he wouldn't have been on trial in Colorado.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLeagueWannabe
Knoe, people rate him high now because he's better now...2004 Kobe couldn't carry this version of Kobe's bags to the airport...

Why do people keep saying this? Someone else (BULLS, I think) made a similar claim in another thread. It's nonsensical. Kobe is better, yes, but not worlds better like some of you are supposing.

Seems the rule changes, and the resultant inflated numbers, have clouded people's judgment. I guess Kobe of '06 (35/5/5/45% FG) was WORLDS better than the Kobe of '05 (27/6/6/43% FG), and that amazing transformation somehow happened in a single offseason. Amazing, huh? He must have really worked on his game during the '05 offseason. Oh, wait a second -- did something else happen during the '06 season? Something that led to perimeter players blowing up left and right the entire year?


Nah, Kobe just became WORLDS better in the space of 3 months' time. Yep, that's real logical.


Again, I'm not saying he isn't better, but not to nearly the degree you're supposing.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

05 Kobe had injury issues.
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