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Old 10-04-2007, 08:26 PM   #31
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
05 Kobe had injury issues.

Right.

I heard the same thing all throughout '06, and how he "could have averaged 40 ppg if he were healthy!"
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Yup, in 06 Kobe played on a busted knee which he got surgery for and kept him from getting into game shape the entire 07 season(Still did 36.7 PPG post ASB). In 05 injuries were bad enough that he actually had to sit out games. This year he should finally be healthy BTW Kobe averaged the same amount of FT's in 05 and 06, he just took less shots
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

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Originally Posted by BULLS
He WAS worlds better, LMAO. If the f'ing stats alone don't prove it, then you will never get it. It's not just the end of the season stats. It's the insane 40/50+ streak that 05' Kobe would never come close to. It's the absurdly difficult shots he can make routinely.

Kobe today is way better than Kobe from 04'-05'. This is a simple fact.

You still don't get it. By the way, I should note that even back in '03, Kobe went on a 9-game 40+ streak. Part of the reason he's able to do what he does with such regularity is external (e.g., new rules) and some is internal (he's better). You think it's exclusively the latter, but even a cursory look at the evidence will prove otherwise. Players don't become WORLDS better in 3 months' time. Sorry.

That he's better is not in question. But he isn't "WORLDS" better by any stretch; it just seems that way for various reasons.

Last edited by Loki : 10-04-2007 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Also, Kobe dropped a lot of bulk he added for the 05 season which helped his game.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
Yup, in 06 Kobe played on a busted knee which he got surgery for and kept him from getting into game shape the entire 07 season(Still did 36.7 PPG post ASB). In 05 injuries were bad enough that he actually had to sit out games. This year he should finally be healthy



You sound ready to cream yourself.

Quote:
BTW Kobe averaged the same amount of FT's in 05 and 06, he just took less shots

Wait, weren't you always the one arguing in '06 that he got 10+ FT/gm because of the volume of shots he was taking? Yeah...I thought so.

Also, it's not just about the amount of FT's, but the effect of the officiating on defenses in general, including their aggressiveness and the space given to get shots off.

Like I said, no one becomes twice as good during one summer. Deal with it.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

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Originally Posted by Loki


You sound ready to cream yourself.


You're the LAST person who should be telling anyone they are creaming themselves over a player. On here and other sites jocking a player who's prime ended a decade ago like he's your father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Wait, weren't you always the one arguing in '06 that he got 10+ FT/gm because of the volume of shots he was taking? Yeah...I thought so.


Kobe was more perimeter oriented in 06 than 05, which explains the difference That still doesn't refute my point about getting the same # of FT attempts despite taking MORE shots when you claim it was easier.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

So, tell us LOCO. A 40% shooting Jerry Stackhouse can get 10 FT's per game yet Kobe can't?
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Often seems like people think Shaq makes more than he does. He makes 20 million. Hes not the highest paid player in the league. Hes not even #2. Or 3...or 4. KG, Michael Finley, Marbury, and Allen Iverson all make more than Shaq. 11 people either make more than him or within 1 million of him(Kidd, JO, Mcgrady, Kobe, Duncan, and Webber are the others). Dirk and Rashard Lewis will be passing him soon. Paul Pierce will be making like 21 million in 2010. Even Michael Redd will hit 19 million.

Shaq is not now and never will be the highest paid player in the league. Not anymore. Im guessing he and his agent saw the way deals were going and got him a deal that would keep him somewhere near the top for the near future but hes not gonna be #1. Shaq wont make as much as Kobe over the next 4 years. Kidd makes exactly the same as Shaq over the next couple years(about 300K less now but 300K more next year).

Laker fans seemed to want Kidds contracts though. Shaqs one year more than kidd wasnt gonna cripple the team.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

So T-Mac jumping from 15/6/3 to 27/8/5 from one season to the next wasn't just him getting world's better? Maybe it was A COMBINATION OF GETTING BETTER AND CIRCUMSTANCE
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Lakers sign this baller and they are set. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i6J55SAHfE
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
Kobe was more perimeter oriented in 06 than 05, which explains the difference That still doesn't refute my point about getting the same # of FT attempts despite taking MORE shots when you claim it was easier.

And then what of '07, where he both shot less and was similarly perimeter-oriented as compared with '06? (~80% jumpers both seasons according to 82games.com)

Like I said...I thought so.

Quote:
So T-Mac jumping from 15/6/3 to 27/8/5 from one season to the next wasn't just him getting world's better? Maybe it was A COMBINATION OF GETTING BETTER AND CIRCUMSTANCE

It was, actually, except in his case the circumstance was getting 30% more minutes, escaping Carter's shadow in Toronto, and becoming the lone offensive threat on his team with free rein. But he also became better, yes.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Often seems like people think Shaq makes more than he does. He makes 20 million.

I'm pretty sure Shaquille was asking for close to 30 million a year, was he not?
Can someone confirm this.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
And then what of '07, where he both shot less and was similarly perimeter-oriented as compared with '06? (~80% jumpers both seasons according to 82games.com)

Like I said...I thought so.

Kobe wasn't HEALTHY to start the season. FT's aren't just about whether you shoot outside or inside more, take into consideration mobility needed to pull of moves, fakes etc. which lead to fouls. Kobe has the widest offensive arsenal of anyone in the NBA. That's partly what makes him so hard to guard. 36.7 PPG 2nd half of 07 as he got his legs under him, and even then was never in top game shape by virtue of missing offseason workouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
It was, actually, except in his case the circumstance was getting 30% more minutes, escaping Carter's shadow in Toronto, and becoming the lone offensive threat on his team with free rein. But he also became better, yes.

Kobe's was being healthy, dropping bulk, improving, and being given the green light to shoot more. Same amount of FT's...can't refute it clown.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:06 PM   #44
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

http://cruftbox.com/blog/archives/000973.html

Lakers were going to pay Shaquille over 30 million dollars in 2005 season.
He took a pay cut with Miami but he wanted $ from LA, he felt he was being disrespected because of everything he's done for LA and that there was no extension on the table. When Shaquille said those words, he was worth more then 15 LA players combined and half more then Kobe Bryant at the age of 32, having weight problems and injuries. Yet, somehow he felt disrespected because he only had two years on his contract of over 30 million par...and he wanted another giant extension from LA?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Quote:
Hes not even #2. Or 3...or 4. KG, Michael Finley, Marbury, and Allen Iverson all make more than Shaq.

You say it like it's a crime, Shaquille isn't even worth 20 million anymore. Lakers made the right choice by choosing Kobe, he was younger, cost less and actually had work ethic. LA wanted to built around Kobe, and Shaquille wouldn't negotiate the terms of his contract because he was greedy and thought a giant extension (4 yr/120 million I believe) was in order. Sorry Shaq, I love you and all but you didn't deserve to make that much money...no one in this league deserves that much money, outside of a prime Shaquille O'Neal. And he was declining at that time.

Last edited by Los Angeles : 10-04-2007 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: If Kobe had more patience

You say Shaq isnt worth 20 million as if the people who make 20 are worth it. Finley, Marbury, and AI are no more worthy of it than Shaq. Like I said 11 people make 19 or more.

And generally when someone says a team made the right choice the "wrong" choice didnt make the ECF then win a title. The worst of his 3 seasons since leaving ended the way Kobes has for all 3. Other than the one year they didnt make the playoffs at all of course.

The Lakers picked who they wanted. Kobes younger and all. Nothing wrong with it. But Shaq in 3 years has won more than some people in the HOF ever did. If winning is the measure of team success...hard to say the Lakers made the right choice. Maybe long term but Kobe has not and will not win what Shaq has done without him. Not with the team he has. I find it more likely he leaves the lakers eventually and they will have paid what...137 million? For some first round exits?

If not...Kobe is 32 or 33 and looking for another huge deal to wind down a career that has included no significant success without Shaq. The Lakers are basically the 01-03 Magic with a 137 million dollar Tmac. The Heat got one of the only thing that really matters.

Even if the Lakers made the right choice...it has yet to do a damn thing to help the franchise.
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