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Old 10-10-2007, 04:40 PM   #1
John Starks
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Default Jerry Krause

This guy was a great front office guy in the league. He didn't draft MJ, but he built perfect teams around him. He recognized kukoc, he pulled off highway robbery stealing rodman from SA, he found defensive players who could shoot (are there any of these anymore).

I know he was loathed by the players and (unfairly) blamed for the failures of the first 2 rebuilding efforts by the bulls....but now, apparently, he is a freaking scout for the Mets.

What a collossal waste. In a league, like the NBA, where 75% of the GM's are really bad, how does Krause not have a job?

The only GM's I'd rather have than Krause are Buford, Thorn, Colangelo, Nelson, Dumars and Grunfeld -- and Nelson and Grunfeld are only there because they are more current. Only really Buford, Thorn and Dumars can somewhat reflect Krause's accomplishments.

My appeal to Charles Dolan - take over, kick out James, Kick out IT and bring us Jerry Krause.
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

I don't think he wants to come back to b-ball. Baseball was always a passion of his and I think he started out as a baseball scout or at least did that before he was hired with the Bulls.
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

krause didn't fleece the spurs by taking rodman off their hands. he gave them a servicable back up center (who actually was helpful in them beating shaq and la in 99) and took a headcase whose antics had outgrown his usefulness. steve kerr and scottie pippen both attributed rodman's managable behavior to jordan's total domination of the lockeroom. there may not have been another team in the league that really could have handled him - though if daily was in orlando i'd have to think he could deal with the worm.
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
I don't think he wants to come back to b-ball. Baseball was always a passion of his and I think he started out as a baseball scout or at least did that before he was hired with the Bulls.

Started as a basketball scout (drafted Monroe) then did baseball then back to basketball.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

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Originally Posted by dejordan
krause didn't fleece the spurs by taking rodman off their hands. he gave them a servicable back up center (who actually was helpful in them beating shaq and la in 99) and took a headcase whose antics had outgrown his usefulness. steve kerr and scottie pippen both attributed rodman's managable behavior to jordan's total domination of the lockeroom. there may not have been another team in the league that really could have handled him - though if daily was in orlando i'd have to think he could deal with the worm.

back-up center v. best rebounder in the league...hmmmm...tough choice.

Thing is, he is blamed for his "organizations win championships" line. But if we take our passion for MJ out of it, we'd realize that its correct. The Spurs are the best organization in basketball. TD is great ,but surround him with Marbury, Crawford and Ricky Davis - on paper mroe talented than Bowern, Gino, and parker - and they'd lose. Good organization.

Good organizations recognize talent andneeds and make good decisions to get those players that fill the needs. That was Krause's trading for Rodman. As an organization, he knew thatthey could handle him...only becausethe organization was strong. Because he recognized enough strong minded players to fill the locker room (not just MJ and Scottie but Kerr and Buechler - lunch pail guys who come in to do their job)

I know he and MJ didn't get on - so we all hate krause -- dude knew how to build a team.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Krause is an embarassment and true NBA fans should never forgive him. He deprived us of 2-3 more years of the Bulls(minumum). All the free agents would have come back from the 98 team if Jordan had returned, and he would have done so had Krause promised him he wouldn't rebuild. Mike wasn't ready to retire, but he hated Krause and hated that he was so excited to rebuild when he had a champiohsip team already. Jordan may have played five more years for the Bulls, seeing as he retired in 2003. Pippen would have signed a five-year deal with the Bulls instead of Houston, and they could have made a few changes to the supporting cast, maybe add some youth and dump Rodman. A team like that could have easily defeated the 99 Knicks, 00 Pacers, 01 Sixers, 02 and 03 Nets and returned to the Finals. Those Bulls teams left a lot on the table. Krause ruined it.

Last edited by IversonMelo2K7 : 10-10-2007 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
Krause is an embarassment and true NBA fans should never forgive him. He deprived us of 2-3 more years of the Bulls(minumum). All the free agents would have come back from the 98 team in MJ came back, and he would have come back had Krause promised not to rebuild. Mike wasn't ready to reture, but he hated Krause and hated that he was so excited to rebuild when he had a champiohsip team already. Jordan may have played five for years for the Bulls, seeing as he retired in 2003. Pippen would have signed a five-year deal with the Bulls instead of Houston, and they could make a few changes to the supporting cast and proably dump Rodman. A team liek that could have easily defeated the 99 Kicks, 00 Pacers, 01 Sixers, 02 and 03 Nets and return to the finals. Those Bulls teams left a lot on the table. Krause ruined it.

Lets just say that you are right - lets say that Krause wanted to rebuild and alienated the players.

That's Krause's genius. How many teams do we see peak, then slowly slowly slowly work their way to obscurity. Seeing it right now in Det and NJ. Meanwhile, the players keep signing contracts as they get older and older.

At some point you've got to blow it up and rebuild, or you just post-pone the inevitable andendure painfully mediocre seasons.

Krause's mistake was not realizing that FA's would turn up their noses at money. I still don't really understand that.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
Lets just say that you are right - lets say that Krause wanted to rebuild and alienated the players.

That's Krause's genius. How many teams do we see peak, then slowly slowly slowly work their way to obscurity. Seeing it right now in Det and NJ. Meanwhile, the players keep signing contracts as they get older and older.

At some point you've got to blow it up and rebuild, or you just post-pone the inevitable andendure painfully mediocre seasons.

Krause's mistake was not realizing that FA's would turn up their noses at money. I still don't really understand that.


Lots of flawed points here. First off he DID want to rebuild (he almost did so in 97 by attempting to trade Pippen to the Celtics on draft day until MJ said he would retire if the deal was made) and showed no respect for what the Bulls already had. Not only did he alienate the players, he alienated the greatest player in the history of the game and cut his career short.

Letting a team slip into mediocrity is definately a concern, but the Bulls were coming off a CHAMPIONSHIP(actually three in a row). We had no idea if they had peaked. They had as much roster flexibility as you could ask for. Resign MJ and Pip and fill out the roster around them. Kukoc was still under contract. Re-up Kerr. Maybe replace Ron Harper and Rodman with some younger guys. Keep Phil and Tex around instead of gotting a boner for Tim Floyd.

Krause didn't care about any of that. His only agenda was to tear everything apart and start from scratch. The fact he tried to do it a year earlier in 97 shows he didn't care at all about the present title-winning team. It was also an ego thing, becasue he wanted to show that he could build a winning team himself. I guarantee had Krause drafted MJ instead of Rod Thorn this wouldn't have happened. MJ wasn't one of Krause's guys, he was from the previous regime. Guess it didnt matter he was the greatest player ever and he still wanted to play.

The only team I can thing of that was kept together too long was the Bird/McHale Celtics, and ther were lots of other factors that contributed to their demise, specifically Bird's back, McHale's ankles, the deaths of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, and the sheer presence of ML Carr.

Last edited by IversonMelo2K7 : 10-10-2007 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
Krause's mistake was not realizing that FA's would turn up their noses at money. I still don't really understand that.

I just noiced this quote, and I will inform you of the answer: None of the players wanted to play for Krause after they way he treated Jordan and Pippen. After that he developed a reputation around the league for mistreating guys, and was unable to shake it. That was, in fact, a huge part of why he lost his job.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
Lots of flawed points here. First off he DID want to rebuild (he almost did so in 97 by attempting to trade Pippen to the Celtics on draft day until MJ said he would retire if the deal was made) and showed no respect for what the Bulls already had. Not only did he alienate the players, he alienated the greatest player in the history of the game and cut his career short. .

MJ cut his own career short. Krause was being bullied into paying MJ on a year -to-year basis 20+ million. Now, it was the most worthwhile $20+ ever paid, but Pippen was about ot aks forthe same type of deal. it wasn't Krause's money to spend.

So he was without MJ, soon to be without Pippen or spend $40 mill on 2 players...and then start putting together the other peices. Meanwhile, the team was aging, the retirement threats from Jackson and MJ kept getting louder and louder.

In your theory, keep everyone together, pay whateverthey ask and they'll keep winning title after title. Its a fairy tale. It would not have kept rolling for years...and even IF Krause robbed us of 1 more year of Bulls magic, do we take away the great years of the Bulls that he built.

MJ retires -- any other gM goes drectly into panic mode, signs the biggest name they can for the most money they can. Krause, because the organization was strong, was able to sign Pete myers and the team found its way into the deep 2nd round. You all want to give it all to Pippen, gotta give some to Krause for not tearing the joint down, or tunring over the franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
Letting a team slip into mediocrity is definately a concern, but the Bulls were coming off a CHAMPIONSHIP(actually three in a row). We had no idea if they had peaked. .

Come on - they had obviously peaked. You werren't getting 3 more titles out of those legs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
Krause didn't care about any of that. His only agenda was to tear everything apart and start from scratch. The fact he tried to do it a year earlier in 97 shows he didn't care at all about the present title-winning team. It was also an ego thing, becasue he wanted to show that he could build a winning team himself.

Or maybe, he is a forward thinking GM who knows that at some point you have ot break down and rebuild and you can rebuild easier if you do it before you get locked up into long-term contracts with aging players (Billups)...and its easier to do it full-throttle as opposed ot half-assed (Knicks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
I guarantee had Krause drafted MJ instead of Rod Thorn this wouldn't have happened. MJ wasn't one of Krause's guys, he was from the previous regime. Guess it didnt matter he was the greatest player ever and he still wanted to play.

If MJ still wanted to play there were 29 teams ready to sign him.

I'm not saying that Krause made a great decision - I just think he gets unfairly blamed for the teams explosion, and insufficient credit for all the titles.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
I just noiced this quote, and I will inform you of the answer: None of the players wanted to play for Krause after they way he treated Jordan and Pippen. After that he developed a reputation around the league for mistreating guys, and was unable to shake it. That was, in fact, a huge part of why he lost his job.


The final straw was when he was about to trade Pippen for Tracy McGrady in June 1997.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Quote:
Originally Posted by IversonMelo2K7
I just noiced this quote, and I will inform you of the answer: None of the players wanted to play for Krause after they way he treated Jordan and Pippen. After that he developed a reputation around the league for mistreating guys, and was unable to shake it. That was, in fact, a huge part of why he lost his job.

I understand that -- I just don't understand FA's turning up their noses at money out of loyalty to another player.

What is the big screw job to MJ - only paying him $20 mill per season - so sad.

Held Pippen to his contract - so sad.

He should've found a way to pay pippen more...because if pippen had underperformed he would've found a way to give some money back...right?
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

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Originally Posted by White Chocolate
The final straw was when he was about to trade Pippen for Tracy McGrady in June 1997.

..and that would've been a bad decision for the future of the franchise?
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

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Originally Posted by John Starks
..and that would've been a bad decision for the future of the franchise?


Jordan would have retired that very day had Krause made the move.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jerry Krause

Didn't Krause have a feud with Phil Jackson? Also, I thought Krause did this rebuilding because he thought the players were old..
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