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Old 10-17-2007, 12:58 PM   #1
xxxSuperStar
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Default The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

So, let's say Kobe goes to Dallas. As a Bulls fan, I would say "cool trade" but certainly wouldn't think its the end of the world.

That is because the Bulls have a FUTURE and HUGE window to win in, not 3-5 years, as Dallas does.

That is what "other" fans don't understand about a Bulls fan's position.

No, Deng or Gordon aren't anywhere near the talent of Kobe, but mortgaging a decade of a playoff team by including a package of (Deng, Thomas, Nocioni, Noah and draft picks) is just, well, DUMB in my eyes.

So say in three years, the Bulls have the same team. It will look like:

Gordon (age 27, in prime, 10 million, est)
Hinrich (age 29, in prime, 8-9 million)
Deng (age 25, starting prime, 12 million, est)
Thomas (age 24, before prime, 6 million)
Noah (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)
Nocioni (age 30, ending prime, 7.5 million)
Sefolosha (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)

Look at THOSE pieces. If the Bulls haven't made a Finals or aren't close, the value of the players, barring injuries, will be VERY high.

Big men will be available, superstars will be available and THOSE Bulls salaries will make it much easier to trade for that "final piece" than they are now.

In three-four years, barring a legit title contender, I will start to feel a bit of urgency to add a "superstar" or "that final piece," but until then I'm not mortgaging the ENTIRE future for a three year window to win a championship.

The Bulls future is BRIGHT. This is JUST...just the TIP of the iceberg for where the Bulls are going, and I understand that, but those "other" fans don't.

Last edited by xxxSuperStar : 10-17-2007 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
So, let's say Kobe goes to Dallas. As a Bulls fan, I would say "cool trade" but certainly wouldn't think its the end of the world.

That is because the Bulls have a FUTURE and HUGE window to win in, not 3-5 years, as Dallas does.

That is what "other" fans don't understand about a Bulls fan's position.

No, Deng or Gordon aren't anywhere near the talent of Kobe, but mortgaging a decade of a playoff team by including a package of (Deng, Thomas, Nocioni, Noah and draft picks) is just, well, DUMB in my eyes.

So say in three years, the Bulls have the same team. It will look like:

Gordon (age 27, in prime, 10 million, est)
Hinrich (age 29, in prime, 8-9 million)
Deng (age 25, starting prime, 12 million, est)
Thomas (age 24, before prime, 6 million)
Noah (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)
Nocioni (age 30, ending prime, 7.5 million)
Sefolosha (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)

Look at THOSE pieces. If the Bulls haven't made a Finals or aren't close, the value of the players, barring injuries, will be VERY high.

Big men will be available, superstars will be available and THOSE Bulls salaries will make it much easier to trade for that "final piece" than they are now.

In three-four years, barring a legit title contender, I will start to feel a bit of urgency to add a "superstar" or "that final piece," but until then I'm not mortgaging the ENTIRE future for a three year window to win a championship.

The Bulls future is BRIGHT. This is JUST...just the TIP of the iceberg for where the Bulls are going, and I understand that, but I those "other" fans don't.

That's honestly the best Bulls post I've seen in my short time on here. I feel the exact same way. There's no need to break up the core when they've worked for about five years to put it together. But, like you've said, if you keep the team together and they don't take that next step (even though I think they will, probably this year), in three years, the trade pieces become even more valuable. Great post
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulls08Champs
That's honestly the best Bulls post I've seen in my short time on here. I feel the exact same way. There's no need to break up the core when they've worked for about five years to put it together. But, like you've said, if you keep the team together and they don't take that next step (even though I think they will, probably this year), in three years, the trade pieces become even more valuable. Great post

Just as importantly, the salaries are easier to move too.
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
So, let's say Kobe goes to Dallas. As a Bulls fan, I would say "cool trade" but certainly wouldn't think its the end of the world.

That is because the Bulls have a FUTURE and HUGE window to win in, not 3-5 years, as Dallas does.

That is what "other" fans don't understand about a Bulls fan's position.

No, Deng or Gordon aren't anywhere near the talent of Kobe, but mortgaging a decade of a playoff team by including a package of (Deng, Thomas, Nocioni, Noah and draft picks) is just, well, DUMB in my eyes.

So say in three years, the Bulls have the same team. It will look like:

Gordon (age 27, in prime, 10 million, est)
Hinrich (age 29, in prime, 8-9 million)
Deng (age 25, starting prime, 12 million, est)
Thomas (age 24, before prime, 6 million)
Noah (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)
Nocioni (age 30, ending prime, 7.5 million)
Sefolosha (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)

Look at THOSE pieces. If the Bulls haven't made a Finals or aren't close, the value of the players, barring injuries, will be VERY high.

Big men will be available, superstars will be available and THOSE Bulls salaries will make it much easier to trade for that "final piece" than they are now.

In three-four years, barring a legit title contender, I will start to feel a bit of urgency to add a "superstar" or "that final piece," but until then I'm not mortgaging the ENTIRE future for a three year window to win a championship.

The Bulls future is BRIGHT. This is JUST...just the TIP of the iceberg for where the Bulls are going, and I understand that, but those "other" fans don't.


I get your point. Breaking up the core of this Bulls team that Pax has been assembling seems like it would just undo five years of hard work and might even seem completely unnecessary considering the positive steps toward an NBA title this organization has been taking with each progressing year. I trust Pax. He knows what he's doing and has made many great decisions during his brief tenure. HOWEVER, you neglected to mention ANY positives that would come with the acquisition of a player of Kobe Bryant's caliber. The last two seasons, Kobe has won the scoring title and earned a spot on the NBA's All Defensive First Team. He is arguably in the individual prime of his career, and as scary as it is, he seems to get better each year. Say we are able to keep:

Hinrich
Deng
Thomas (may become a freakishly dominant player once he develops)
Noah
Sefolosha (also has potential to be an All-Star)
Joe Smith

--and still acquire Kobe. BG is a very good player who has high scoring ability, but he isn't the complete player that Bryant is. We're young - we can afford to give the Lakers a few future high draft picks to begin their rebuilding process. Kobe, as the greatest all around player since Jordan, fills ANY missing pieces this team may have (which are slim in number) and also makes the "necessity" for an effective low post scorer (and I'm not talking about Joe Smith or Noah) that everyone thinks the Bulls need completely irrelevant. Last year's team may have gotten past the Cavs, but would NOT have beaten the Spurs. We're just not up to pace with the West, yet.

Kobe's craving to be "THE MAN" is not necessarily a bad thing; only on a team full of superstars (e.g. the '03-'04 Lakers). Ever in NEED of points? Kobe is there. We do NOT have that right now. BG, our primary offensive weapon, has a streaky shot. We can't afford to have Gordon post an off night (as he did all through the 2nd round) in Game 7 of the ECF. Kobe WILL show up in those games, and with the weapons complimenting him, we may be unstoppable. You can't tell me Deng's athleticism and ever improving skills; Hinrich's ability to play the true point; and young, athletic big men wouldnt be a perfect complement to Kobe's dominant scoring ability.

You're right, the future is bright regardless. We're a team with a lot of potential. But the future could be NOW should the Bulls acquire Kobe. Seriously, with that team, multiple championships, maybe even consecutive championships, are on the horizon.
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

LOL

Do you know how good Kobe is? DO you know how much revenue he would bring to Chicago???
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisoner
LOL

Do you know how good Kobe is? DO you know how much revenue he would bring to Chicago???

Its not like Chicago is a struggling market or team. They sell out every game, have a national television deal (WGN) and other great television and radio deals.

And I'm not saying I wouldn't LIKE Kobe, I'm saying giving up Deng, Gordon, THomas/Noah, Nocioni and draft picks leaves us in NO better situation than we are now.

Giving up something like Gordon, Nocioni and Thomas is about all I'd be happy with, period.

And my major point, is if Kobe doesn't come to the Bulls, I won't lose a WINK of sleep over it and may even be happier. And prefer adding a low post big in the future (Brand, JO, Gasol or whoever) rather than Kobe.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisoner
LOL

Do you know how good Kobe is? DO you know how much revenue he would bring to Chicago???



Bulls fans don't care about ****ing revenue man. We care about wins and a chips. La = Team/City Revunue > Team Success
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buechlerforthree
I get your point. Breaking up the core of this Bulls team that Pax has been assembling seems like it would just undo five years of hard work and might even seem completely unnecessary considering the positive steps toward an NBA title this organization has been taking with each progressing year. I trust Pax. He knows what he's doing and has made many great decisions during his brief tenure. HOWEVER, you neglected to mention ANY positives that would come with the acquisition of a player of Kobe Bryant's caliber. The last two seasons, Kobe has won the scoring title and earned a spot on the NBA's All Defensive First Team. He is arguably in the individual prime of his career, and as scary as it is, he seems to get better each year. Say we are able to keep:

Hinrich
Deng
Thomas (may become a freakishly dominant player once he develops)
Noah
Sefolosha (also has potential to be an All-Star)
Joe Smith

--and still acquire Kobe. BG is a very good player who has high scoring ability, but he isn't the complete player that Bryant is. We're young - we can afford to give the Lakers a few future high draft picks to begin their rebuilding process. Kobe, as the greatest all around player since Jordan, fills ANY missing pieces this team may have (which are slim in number) and also makes the "necessity" for an effective low post scorer (and I'm not talking about Joe Smith or Noah) that everyone thinks the Bulls need completely irrelevant. Last year's team may have gotten past the Cavs, but would NOT have beaten the Spurs. We're just not up to pace with the West, yet.

Kobe's craving to be "THE MAN" is not necessarily a bad thing; only on a team full of superstars (e.g. the '03-'04 Lakers). Ever in NEED of points? Kobe is there. We do NOT have that right now. BG, our primary offensive weapon, has a streaky shot. We can't afford to have Gordon post an off night (as he did all through the 2nd round) in Game 7 of the ECF. Kobe WILL show up in those games, and with the weapons complimenting him, we may be unstoppable. You can't tell me Deng's athleticism and ever improving skills; Hinrich's ability to play the true point; and young, athletic big men wouldnt be a perfect complement to Kobe's dominant scoring ability.

You're right, the future is bright regardless. We're a team with a lot of potential. But the future could be NOW should the Bulls acquire Kobe. Seriously, with that team, multiple championships, maybe even consecutive championships, are on the horizon.

Great post. Would make a great GM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Thank you for this thread. Thank you!
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buechlerforthree
Say we are able to keep:

Hinrich
Deng
Thomas (may become a freakishly dominant player once he develops)
Noah
Sefolosha (also has potential to be an All-Star)
Joe Smith

--and still acquire Kobe.

So basically Wallace, Gordon and Duhon for Kobe?

Yes I would do that.

Anything that involves a Deng AND Gordon (which you have to throw in Nocioni OR Wallace) to make it work, I wouldn't do.

A team of

Hinrich
Kobe
Nocioni
Thomas
Noah

Isn't better than the current team IMO and certainly isn't enough to win a title or the East.

By the time Noah and Thomas develop, Kobe and Nocioni will be entering their mid-30's.
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
So, let's say Kobe goes to Dallas. As a Bulls fan, I would say "cool trade" but certainly wouldn't think its the end of the world.

That is because the Bulls have a FUTURE and HUGE window to win in, not 3-5 years, as Dallas does.

That is what "other" fans don't understand about a Bulls fan's position.

No, Deng or Gordon aren't anywhere near the talent of Kobe, but mortgaging a decade of a playoff team by including a package of (Deng, Thomas, Nocioni, Noah and draft picks) is just, well, DUMB in my eyes.

So say in three years, the Bulls have the same team. It will look like:

Gordon (age 27, in prime, 10 million, est)
Hinrich (age 29, in prime, 8-9 million)
Deng (age 25, starting prime, 12 million, est)
Thomas (age 24, before prime, 6 million)
Noah (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)
Nocioni (age 30, ending prime, 7.5 million)
Sefolosha (age 25, starting prime, 3 million)

Look at THOSE pieces. If the Bulls haven't made a Finals or aren't close, the value of the players, barring injuries, will be VERY high.

Big men will be available, superstars will be available and THOSE Bulls salaries will make it much easier to trade for that "final piece" than they are now.

In three-four years, barring a legit title contender, I will start to feel a bit of urgency to add a "superstar" or "that final piece," but until then I'm not mortgaging the ENTIRE future for a three year window to win a championship.

The Bulls future is BRIGHT. This is JUST...just the TIP of the iceberg for where the Bulls are going, and I understand that, but those "other" fans don't.
Good post, I agree with everything you said
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

No way i would trade both gordon and deng for 1 supertar. the other team should atleast include 1 solid role player or something
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:52 PM   #13
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Post Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
So basically Wallace, Gordon and Duhon for Kobe?

Even a trade like that would make me think twice. Wallace is the leader of the frontcourt. Everybody knows that we lack low-post offense, but if Big Ben gets traded, then we have no low-post defense either. Not a great thing for a team that prides itself on defense. Who would we plug in at center...Noah? Gray? Neither of them are ready to play starters minutes in the NBA and guard the opposing team's best big man.

Additionally, they would not develop well at all without Wallace there to mentor them. I honestly can't think of a better current player to teach young guys the fundamentals of low-post defense...maybe Duncan or KG. After this season, Wallace has two years left on his contract. I'm guessing he will play for us in 2009 and get traded during the 2010 season because that $15 million(?) expiring contract will intrigue many teams. That is when we will get an offensive big man (if we don't have one by then).

I think that the best course of action is to resign Deng and sign-and-trade Gordon. The only problem is that I can't think of anyone in the league that the Bulls could make a fair trade for. That having been said, I would definitely be OK with Gordon staying on for another 4-5 years.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

i agree... personally i think we wouldnt benifet on getting Kobe... cause we will lose 2 or 3 players we have now ...2 most likely awesome like gordon on loul which are the future of our club...

kobe can go else where
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Old 10-20-2007, 02:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Bulls have a FUTURE! No Kobe Needed!

The Bulls have a great future. The only question is the contract extension situations of deng and gordon
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