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Old 10-21-2007, 02:39 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

NY will be fine.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

If the problem continues, why not trade curry for someone who would work well with Z-Bo?
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazerfan22
If the problem continues, why not trade curry for someone who would work well with Z-Bo?

Like who?
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Tyson Chandler
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:19 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Podkolzin1
Ummm no. The Knicks FO is miles, miles and more miles better than the Lakers FO.
If teams changed FO's, the Lakers would be contenders by now, easily.

And no, the Knicks don't suck. They're making the playoffs for sure.

We can argue that point.. show me what the Knicks have done to prove your point? I have not seen them do anything for so many years... oh yeah, they spend a lot of money... like that great move they did for Francis among many others. The "IF's" mean nothing to me... I look at what is, not what could be.

If your benchmark for success is how many trades or contracts signed, then the Knicks win. If you are talking wins/losses that lead to playoff births which I would think is more important, then ....

I'd need you to back that up A LOT more than just, Ummmm no.

Bring it.


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Old 10-21-2007, 04:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

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Originally Posted by ALBballer
Like who?

Not sure at this point but there's always a solution. The Knicks could get someone nice for Curry too. They might need someone who will let Z-Bo be a leader in the paint. That's how Z-Bo likes to play.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
We can argue that point.. show me what the Knicks have done to prove your point? I have not seen them do anything for so many years... oh yeah, they spend a lot of money... like that great move they did for Francis among many others. The "IF's" mean nothing to me... I look at what is, not what could be.

If your benchmark for success is how many trades or contracts signed, then the Knicks win. If you are talking wins/losses that lead to playoff births which I would think is more important, then ....

I'd need you to back that up A LOT more than just, Ummmm no.

Bring it.



Knicks have spent a lot of money, but atleast they do have a young core to go along with it. Lakers basically have Kobe and Lamar and they're future depends on Bynum. They've traded Caron for a bust, the most dominating big man at the time for basically Lamar, Kwame, and Brian Grant, and they've failed to put competent players around kobe. Atleast the Knicks try and when they make a deal, they usually never get the lesser of the trade (talent wise.)
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBballer
Knicks have spent a lot of money, but atleast they do have a young core to go along with it. Lakers basically have Kobe and Lamar and they're future depends on Bynum. They've traded Caron for a bust, the most dominating big man at the time for basically Lamar, Kwame, and Brian Grant, and they've failed to put competent players around kobe. Atleast the Knicks try and when they make a deal, they usually never get the lesser of the trade (talent wise.)

Lakers in a tougher conference would finish much higher if in the Knicks conference.

Again, I am going to request that we speak about reality and how that has translated over to success for each team. By the way, I am only thinking post Shaq/Kobe Lakers. If I went further back, it would be an uglier story.

I am certainly not defending the Lakers FO. But, as compared to the Knicks FO? Sorry, Lakers win hands down, despite their stupidity and contentment with mediocrity.


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Old 10-21-2007, 06:35 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Knicks FO went from this:
http://www.basket-stats.info/nba/200...t/new-york.htm
to
http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/

Lakers FO went from this:
http://www.basket-stats.info/nba/200....a.-lakers.htm
to
http://www.nba.com/lakers/roster/index.html

With Kobe wanting out.

It's pretty obvious who's the worst FO.

Edit:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...86&postcount=1

This pretty much ends the debate.

Last edited by Blue&Orange : 10-21-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:38 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
Lakers in a tougher conference would finish much higher if in the Knicks conference.

Again, I am going to request that we speak about reality and how that has translated over to success for each team. By the way, I am only thinking post Shaq/Kobe Lakers. If I went further back, it would be an uglier story.

I am certainly not defending the Lakers FO. But, as compared to the Knicks FO? Sorry, Lakers win hands down, despite their stupidity and contentment with mediocrity.



Another thing is that the Lakers got a bit lucky. Kobe didn't want to play for Charlotte, so Lakers got him for a bag of peanuts, and Shaq wanted to sign for a big market and went with LA. I wouldn't really credit the FO too much for these acquisition.

In the meantime, what have the the Lakers done to replace Shaq? How about let's look at a more general question, what is the Lakers future? Kobe? Bynum?

And not to mention the aminosity between the FO and Kobe and phil is somewhere in between. Disorganization in the front office and people blaming each other isn't a good sign.

Granted, the Knicks aren't the greatest FO, but atleast they have their priorities somewhat right, Knicks will spend whatever it takes to win while maintaining a young core.

The biggest problem with the knicks is that they lack a superstar to put all the pieces together, and finding this superstar takes a bit of luck. If Knicks had Kobe to build around, they would be competing for a championship right now. So what is the Lakers excuse for not building a team around one of the best players of his generation?
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBballer
Another thing is that the Lakers got a bit lucky. Kobe didn't want to play for Charlotte, so Lakers got him for a bag of peanuts, and Shaq wanted to sign for a big market and went with LA. I wouldn't really credit the FO too much for these acquisition.
Kobe and Shaq were already in LA when Kupchak took over.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
Knicks FO went from this:
http://www.basket-stats.info/nba/200...t/new-york.htm
to
http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/

Lakers FO went from this:
http://www.basket-stats.info/nba/200....a.-lakers.htm
to
http://www.nba.com/lakers/roster/index.html

With Kobe wanting out.

It's pretty obvious who's the worst FO.

Edit:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...86&postcount=1

This pretty much ends the debate.
Sorry but those links do not end the debate. People on this board are really in denial about how crappy a situation Isiah Thomas walked into.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
Sorry but those links do not end the debate. People on this board are really in denial about how crappy a situation Isiah Thomas walked into.

Thats fair too... I won't question what he walked into. And perhaps they were so deep that he could not get them out of it. I accept that if that is your argument.

However, I still argue the Lakers FO > Knicks FO as demonstrated by the performance of their respective teams. And I am only talking post Shaq/Kobe. If you want me to enter that into the equation, then we would be speaking about Laker titles in the mix.... so we need not do that.

So far, nobody has been able to convince me otherwise.

p.s If you are going to play the "Lakers got lucky" card, we might as well end this debate.



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Old 10-21-2007, 08:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

The Lakers are better because they were left with Kobe and Odom.
The Knicks started from nothing.

Who did the Lakers get after the Shaq trade? Kwame, Radmanovic, Fisher and other marginals.
The Knicks in the meantime acquired players like Curry, Jamal Crawford, Zach Randolph, Quentin Richardson, all just through trades for pretty much nothing.
All of them are better than all the players the Lakers got since Shaq trade combined.

If the Lakers were able to execute just one trade like that they'd be contenders by now but they don't have the balls or the brains.
If Isiah was the Lakers GM he'd easily get them someone good and surround that team with talent in less than a year because he'd be agressive and make deals. The Lakers are stupid and conservative.

Can you just imagine the Lakers with Curry, Randolph, Crawford and QRich?
Or just two of them. Or maybe just one.

It's much easier to build a team when you already have Kobe, Odom and Butler than it is when your best players are 32 years old Allen Houston and declining Keith Van Horn.

This shouldn't be a comparison. The incompetence of the Lakers organization is disguised by the fact they started off with a hall of famer and 2 other very good players.
Isiah led an uphill battle and started with almost nothing yet today the Knicks have much more pure talent than the Lakers.

So you tell me which organization is better? It isn't even close.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:46 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Knicks don't appear to be any better than last season

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
However, I still argue the Lakers FO > Knicks FO as demonstrated by the performance of their respective teams. And I am only talking post Shaq/Kobe. If you want me to enter that into the equation, then we would be speaking about Laker titles in the mix.... so we need not do that.
In my opinion you can't really compare the two until the end of this season.

The Lakers have had their core together for a little while. This season will be the first in a very long time that the Knicks have mostly the same roster core and the same coaching staff. Once we see what Knicks can do together then we can compare.

If the win/losses are in the same range I think you have to give the nod to the Knicks. They have acquired more talent under Thomas than the Lakers have post-Shaq.
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