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Old 10-22-2007, 03:19 PM   #1
Handome
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Default The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Now I'm not a Bull h*ter, but I feel compelled to expose this team and their over-the-top fans.

First of all, how do you win 36 games in conference and still not win 50 games overall?

Secondly, with the overall improvement of the East, can anybody reasonably expect this team to win at a .700 clip again?

And not only that, but some people are fully expecting this team to increase their win total to 52-55 games? How? Unless they improve their record out West greatly, while still playing .700 against a healthy EC, they won't come anywhere close to 50 games, let alone 52-55.

I'm just saying, people. You can't just take one season and making make sweeping assumptions based on that alone. There were at least 3 teams that were severely hampered with injuries to star players out East. Obviously the Bulls did what they were supposed to do, and took advantage of what they were supposed to do. I give them credit on that...good, little teams don't beat themselves.

And that's exactly what type of team the Bulls are. A young, scrappy team that prides itself on working hard and overachieving. But please, STOP SAYING THEY ARE ELITE!!! A healthy Washington and Heat squad would easily beat them, IMO. I know it's my opinion, but go do your research. Both of these teams have proven, when at optimum strength, they are better.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

36-16 is 52 games, leaving 30 to be played against the West.

Considering the strength of the conference, winning 14 of the 30 (a game under .500) against the West would be pretty darn good for a team not considered among the Eastern Conference elite (at the time; I'm not talking about what people are saying now).

Having 30 games against the West doesn't make winning 14 of them the small task you seem to suggest it is.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
36-16 is 52 games, leaving 30 to be played against the West.

Considering the strength of the conference, winning 14 of the 30 (a game under .500) against the West would be pretty darn good for a team not considered among the Eastern Conference elite (at the time; I'm not talking about what people are saying now).

Having 30 games against the West doesn't make winning 14 of them the small task you seem to suggest it is.

So what you're saying is that they're no better than the Kings or Hornets.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

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So what you're saying is that they're no better than the Kings or Hornets.
That is absolutely NOT what I'm saying, at all.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
36-16 is 52 games, leaving 30 to be played against the West.

Considering the strength of the conference, winning 14 of the 30 (a game under .500) against the West would be pretty darn good for a team not considered among the Eastern Conference elite (at the time; I'm not talking about what people are saying now).

Having 30 games against the West doesn't make winning 14 of them the small task you seem to suggest it is.
First of all, they were 13-17 against th West.

Plus, Cleveland and Detroit both bposted above .500 records against the West...so am I supposed to assume they are unquestionably better than Chicago based off the logic you're using?
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

another topic??????????
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

You fail to mention:

That the Bulls themselves had nagging injuries themselves and Nocioni played only 53 games (taking a 15-16 ppg scorer, great defender and 6th man off the team DOES hurt)

That last year was the first year their core (and Ben Wallace) started a majority of the games together

That they were (and still are) one of the youngest teams in the NBA

That they had a ROUGH, ROUGH start to the season (due to road trip, new roles, new players ect)

That they have improved their defense, rebounding, size and depth

That their defense or rebounding won't go anywhere

That their players (Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Thomas and Noah) are nowhere near their prime years, and have only gotten better year in and year out (there is no reason to think at 22-23, they have reached their ceiling).

That they were top 5 in point differential

As I mentioned, please find fans (even Dengness) that say they are winning the championship. The VAST majority predict 48-52 wins.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handome
Now I'm not a Bull h*ter, but I feel compelled to expose this team and their over-the-top fans.

First of all, how do you win 36 games in conference and still not win 50 games overall?

Secondly, with the overall improvement of the East, can anybody reasonably expect this team to win at a .700 clip again?

And not only that, but some people are fully expecting this team to increase their win total to 52-55 games? How? Unless they improve their record out West greatly, while still playing .700 against a healthy EC, they won't come anywhere close to 50 games, let alone 52-55.

I'm just saying, people. You can't just take one season and making make sweeping assumptions based on that alone. There were at least 3 teams that were severely hampered with injuries to star players out East. Obviously the Bulls did what they were supposed to do, and took advantage of what they were supposed to do. I give them credit on that...good, little teams don't beat themselves.

And that's exactly what type of team the Bulls are. A young, scrappy team that prides itself on working hard and overachieving. But please, STOP SAYING THEY ARE ELITE!!! A healthy Washington and Heat squad would easily beat them, IMO. I know it's my opinion, but go do your research. Both of these teams have proven, when at optimum strength, they are better.

Your will be hard pressed to find out many who agree with you on your "assumption" that a healthy Wiz or Heat team can "easily" beat the bulls. The whole first half of the season for the Bulls was a time period of adjusting to Ben Wallace in and Tyson Chandler out. Tyrus Thomas and Sefolosha were rookies as well, and took them atleast 1/2 to 3/4 the season to settle in. Nocioni missed the last 30 regular season games with his foot injury. Despite all that the Bulls had the best record in the East after the All-star break.

Handsome, why is it so hard for you to see that the Bulls are still developing and no where near full potential as team and as individuals. Like you really honestly think they aren't gonna make any steps forward in progress this year?? They added a solid rookie in Joakim Noah and solid vet in Joe Smith. Nocioni is full strength and his 15 and 6 off the bench were sorely missed in the playoffs. Deng and Gordon are in contract years.

I am not talking ****, but you honestly must not watch enough Bulls. Did you only tune in when they lost to the Pistons in the playoffs? Yea sorry they lost to a team with a few all-stars/veteran players with championship experienced as well as the core guys ALL being completely matured and in their prime. The Bulls had a double digit lead going into the 4th quarter of game 6, that was almost a 7 game series, despite the Bulls losing the first 3 games. You can best bet the Bulls won't be intimidated by the Pistons or anyone(especially not cavs or celts either) come playoffs this year around. Their players are all one year older, and through 3 seasons, Hinrich/Gordon/Nocioni and especially Deng have improved statistically annually, and no longer will be starting a 38 year old PF. Instead of PJ Brown, Malik Allen, and Sweetney downlow, they have Joe Smith, Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas. Uh.. yeah. 10x better look downlow.

How else can you possibly say that they are basically just overachieving????

Gordon - NCAA national Champ
Hinrich - Runner up NCAA champs
Deng - 1 year of college, 1 final four
Noah - 2 time NCAA Champ
Tyrus Thomas - Runner Up NCAA champ
Nocioni - Argentina Gold Medalist winner
Wallace - NBA champ/ 4 time Defensive player of year

These guys have been winning their whole lives. The young players on the Bulls have already carried over past winning culture. It's no coincidence the Bulls started making the playoffs and have improved as a team annually since Gordon/Deng/Nocioni's rookie season 3 years ago.

It takes time to develop a championship caliber team, but hey even the Bulls with Michael, Scottie, and Horace won their 1st chip in their 4th season together, same with Kobe and Shaq. I am not comparing the those teams with the current Bulls. But if it took those teams 4 years to develop into Chip winners it's gonna take atleast 4 years for these Bulls to do so. In just the third season of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Nocioni together the bulls finished 4 games back of the pistons for the best record in the East and 1 game back of the cavs for the second best record. It will be just the second season of Tyrus/Bwallace/and Sefolosha playing with the 4 just mentioned, and the 1st season with Noah and Joe Smith on board.

Handsome you are a h.ater, because look at the thread you made. H.aters are the one's who take the time to post a thread trying to bring down another team, without giving real reasons why and you've especially shown you don't know enough about the Bulls or watch them nearly enough.

Last edited by Dengness9 : 10-22-2007 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxSuperStar
You fail to mention:

That the Bulls themselves had nagging injuries themselves and Nocioni played only 53 games (taking a 15-16 ppg scorer, great defender and 6th man off the team DOES hurt)

That last year was the first year their core (and Ben Wallace) started a majority of the games together

That they were (and still are) one of the youngest teams in the NBA

That they had a ROUGH, ROUGH start to the season (due to road trip, new roles, new players ect)

That they have improved their defense, rebounding, size and depth

That their defense or rebounding won't go anywhere

That their players (Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Thomas and Noah) are nowhere near their prime years, and have only gotten better year in and year out (there is no reason to think at 22-23, they have reached their ceiling).

That they were top 5 in point differential

As I mentioned, please find fans (even Dengness) that say they are winning the championship. The VAST majority predict 48-52 wins.
So what?

Nocioni is not a Wade, Arenas, or Butler.

Just admit it, your team took advantage of other team's injury situations. Nothing wrong with that. Overachievers are a good thing. Shows mental attitude and cohesive team unity.

But I will tell you, it doesn't show eliteness. Look for the Bulls to win 44-47 games.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

44-47 wins for the bulls as a prediction literally embarrasses your basketball knowledge. How could you possibly believe they are taking a step back? Not the cavs who had 0 draft picks and 0 key FA aquisitions and still don't have Varejao or Sasha? 44-47 wins really????? Wow man. Sporting News would really have a problem with you since they picked the Bulls to finish 1st in the East and go to the finals. ALL THEIR GOOD PLAYERS BESIDES WALLACE ARE STILL GETTING BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you honestly disagree???? christ almighty....
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handome
First of all, they were 13-17 against th West.
I never said otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handome
Plus, Cleveland and Detroit both bposted above .500 records against the West...so am I supposed to assume they are unquestionably better than Chicago based off the logic you're using?
The logic I'm using doesn't have anything to do with comparing teams' records against the West in order to determine which team is better.

I said that winning 14 of 30 against the West would be pretty good for the Bulls - and it would. I never said what amount of games I thought the Bulls won ('cause I didn't know off the top of my head). I never said anything about Cleveland, Detroit, the games they won, or how that stacks up with Chicago, either.

If you don't take what I post to mean exactly that - what I post - then I can't possibly have a reasonable discussion with you. You have to stop reading things into my posts that quite simply aren't there.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handome
So what?

Nocioni is not a Wade, Arenas, or Butler.

Just admit it, your team took advantage of other team's injury situations. Nothing wrong with that. Overachievers are a good thing. Shows mental attitude and cohesive team unity.

But I will tell you, it doesn't show eliteness. Look for the Bulls to win 44-47 games.

So you are putting all this fuss up over a matter of 3-5 wins?

Yes the Bulls played the SAME teams as EVERYONE else, Shaq isn't going to play 50 again, Arenas played 74 games last year (it's not like he missed half the season) and Wade is already going to miss games.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handome
So what?

Nocioni is not a Wade, Arenas, or Butler.

Just admit it, your team took advantage of other team's injury situations. Nothing wrong with that. Overachievers are a good thing. Shows mental attitude and cohesive team unity.

But I will tell you, it doesn't show eliteness. Look for the Bulls to win 44-47 games.

No but Nocioni is 15 and 6 off the bench. If you can't comprehend that he is a big part of the rotation, once again you shouldn't speak on Bulls basketball.

You obviously forget or didn't know that Nocioni averaged 22 and 9 against the Heat in 6 playoff games when they went on to win the finals 2 years. The Bulls were w/out Luol Deng because of a wrist injury as well. He is a major contributor and brings intensity beyond belief.

Who said he was Wade or Arenas?? But hey his 15 and 6 off the bench isn't much worse than Butler 19 and 7. Plus Noc plays 20-25 mpg as oppose to Butler's starter minutes of 39 mpg.

Oh and the Wizards have gone from 45 to 42 to 41 wins in the last season. Decreasing in regular season wins....????? hmm not the best sign in the world.

Last edited by Dengness9 : 10-22-2007 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
I never said otherwise.

The logic I'm using doesn't have anything to do with comparing teams' records against the West in order to determine which team is better.

I said that winning 14 of 30 against the West would be pretty good for the Bulls - and it would. I never said what amount of games I thought the Bulls won ('cause I didn't know off the top of my head). I never said anything about Cleveland, Detroit, the games they won, or how that stacks up with Chicago, either.

If you don't take what I post to mean exactly that - what I post - then I can't possibly have a reasonable discussion with you. You have to stop reading things into my posts that quite simply aren't there.

Normally I agree with mostly everything you say, especially about the T-Wolves (do you still root for them?). But if you're saying that having a sub 500 record against the West is good then your expectations of the Bulls must be pretty low.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Bulls went 36-16 against an injury-depleted EC and still didn't win 50 games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
Normally I agree with mostly everything you say, especially about the T-Wolves (do you still root for them?). But if you're saying that having a sub 500 record against the West is good then your expectations of the Bulls must be pretty low.
When you consider what the Bulls lack inside, a game under .500 against the West really isn't bad.
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