Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Utah Jazz Forum

Utah Jazz Forum Utah Jazz forum - Utah Jazz message board

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-22-2006, 10:25 AM   #1
RainierBeachPoet
NEVER forget da SONICS
 
RainierBeachPoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: seattle
Posts: 6,877
RainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default gary payton or john stockton?

who was a better point guard over the span of their careers: gp or john stockton?

please consider the following areas:

stats
championships/championship runs
intangibles
running their perspective teams

please dont let the following dominate:

personality
homerism
RainierBeachPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 10:29 AM   #2
WADE MONEY
I hit open jumpers.
 
WADE MONEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,203
WADE MONEY has an OK reputation so far
Default

stockton regularly averaged 18 pts / 14 assists / 3.5 stls / 55% fg in his prime and played 82 games for most of his seasons

Payton had a couple seasons of 20/10/2.5 stls and was probably the best defensive PG of all time

They're pretty evenly matched but I think Stockton takes the WOW factor in terms of stats
WADE MONEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 10:32 AM   #3
JordanPippenRodman
Banned
 
JordanPippenRodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *
Posts: 642
JordanPippenRodman has no real reputation yet.
Default

Stockton hands down. I lost respect for GP when he started riding other player's coatails to try and win that ring. stockton played a major role for the jazz until the day he retired. payton has been playing 3rd string roles for years now, he sucks compared to a true PG like John Stockton.
JordanPippenRodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 11:47 AM   #4
Juvenile
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
Juvenile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 477
Juvenile has no real reputation yet.
Default

Stockton is the better PG, and Payton is the better player, ability/talent-wise. Stockton was way more efficient, a great decision maker and knew how to run a great team. Never missed the playoffs.
Juvenile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 12:04 PM   #5
StabMasterArson
I airball my layups
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 83
StabMasterArson has decent reputationStabMasterArson has decent reputation
Default

Stockton is better.

The best pure point gaurd ever.
StabMasterArson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 12:18 PM   #6
mika
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
mika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 703
mika has a terrific reputationmika has a terrific reputationmika has a terrific reputationmika has a terrific reputationmika has a terrific reputationmika has a terrific reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvenile
Stockton is the better PG, and Payton is the better player, ability/talent-wise. Stockton was way more efficient, a great decision maker and knew how to run a great team. Never missed the playoffs.
being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?
mika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:02 PM   #7
ALBballer
Religion? LOL? WTF?
 
ALBballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,700
ALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation hereALBballer has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mika
being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?

In order to hit homeruns, you have to get used to striking out.
ALBballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:17 PM   #8
SomeBunghole
Banned
 
SomeBunghole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 746
SomeBunghole has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mika
being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?

Ok, if you're gonna judge them by stats, fine.

John Stockton's assist-per-turnover ratio -- 4.84
John Stockton's steal-per-turnover ratio -- 0.77


Gary Payton's assist-per-turnover ratio -- 2.96
Gary Payton's steal-per-turnover ratio -- 0.81

If Stockton was in his prime today, I'm sure Isiah would be trying to convince the league to offer him a quadruple-max contract. And he'd almost be justified in it.
SomeBunghole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:35 PM   #9
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default

Is that career? anyhow....Judging someone as a PG is purely a offensive argument.....defense is not a role that affects your skill or ability as a PG only as a complete player.......I don't wanna go through all that but you should understand that PG's QB teh offense everthing else they do is a a basketball skill just like any other player. SO someon can be a better rebounder, athlete, defender even scorer (although that is related) and still not be a better PG.

So PG wise STOCKTON is better....HOwever GP is teh better overall player and regularly dominated STOCKTON....I shoudln't say Regularly but enough to show he was superior when they matched up mano a mano as a player.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:37 PM   #10
KnicksFan4Life
Banned
 
KnicksFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: David Wright is for real
Posts: 384
KnicksFan4Life has an OK reputation so far
Default

Stockton ran his team better, so he takes the title
KnicksFan4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:38 PM   #11
AppleNader
Cornell Basketball=#1
 
AppleNader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,307
AppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputation
Default

>
AppleNader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:39 PM   #12
SixerFan03
High School JV MVP
 
SixerFan03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 326
SixerFan03 has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
who was a better point guard over the span of their careers: gp or john stockton?

please consider the following areas:

stats Stockton - all time leader in assists and steals
championships/championship runs Stockton - OK, Payton did win one in Miami and went to one with LA, but he rode coattails on those. In their primes, Stockton's 2 finals apperances in '97 and '98 are greater than Payton's apperance in '96.
intangibles Does defense count as an intangible?
running their perspective teams *Respective, not perspective. And Stockton

That's how I would do break it down. Stockton.
SixerFan03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 01:54 PM   #13
tydal
I airball my layups
 
tydal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18
tydal has an OK reputation so far
Default Stockton

stats:
championships/championship runs: stockton went to the finals twice in his career, GP has been to three but was only top three on his team for one of them. So I give the edge to Stockton.

intangibles: I know a lot of people would say GP for his fire and defense but Stockton was a pain for lots of guys. He would just lay the wood to opposing power forwards all th time despite being a foot shorter.

running their perspective teams: Stockton ran his team as well as one could expect, GP was less effective yet on the defensive side he gave Seattle its identity. So I'd say its even here.

Overall I'd say its Stockton but GP deserves to be amongst the top 10 guards of all time.
tydal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 02:01 PM   #14
Glove_20
The Expert
 
Glove_20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,200
Glove_20 is considered somewhat coolGlove_20 is considered somewhat coolGlove_20 is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WADE MONEY
stockton regularly averaged 18 pts / 14 assists / 3.5 stls / 55% fg in his prime and played 82 games for most of his seasons

Payton had a couple seasons of 20/10/2.5 stls and was probably the best defensive PG of all time

They're pretty evenly matched but I think Stockton takes the WOW factor in terms of stats
Wow

Stockton never got to 18ppg or 3.5spg...And he got over 55% only once...

At the same time, Payton never got to 10apg, but did more than just 20ppg...
Glove_20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 02:02 PM   #15
Glove_20
The Expert
 
Glove_20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,200
Glove_20 is considered somewhat coolGlove_20 is considered somewhat coolGlove_20 is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWALI
Is that career? anyhow....Judging someone as a PG is purely a offensive argument.....defense is not a role that affects your skill or ability as a PG only as a complete player.......I don't wanna go through all that but you should understand that PG's QB teh offense everthing else they do is a a basketball skill just like any other player. SO someon can be a better rebounder, athlete, defender even scorer (although that is related) and still not be a better PG.

So PG wise STOCKTON is better....HOwever GP is teh better overall player and regularly dominated STOCKTON....I shoudln't say Regularly but enough to show he was superior when they matched up mano a mano as a player.
I think that is more of..."Pure PG"

A "Pure PG" all he needs to is be able to pass basically and shoot high %s when he tries to score...

But PG can be different...
Glove_20 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:14 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy