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Old 07-23-2006, 11:25 PM   #76
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If GP > Stockton then GP if greater then Zeke. Like to see you type that now.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:37 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabMasterArson
Stockton is better.

The best pure point gaurd ever.


agree 100% with that statement. fundamental basketball.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:57 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
If GP > Stockton then GP if greater then Zeke. Like to see you type that now.
Sorry

I am not a Total Homer


Isiah was better than Payton

Maybe not individual talent, which is close...But the 2 rings and the Final MVP seperate Isiah from Payton...

Isiah > Payton > Stockton > Kidd



And like I said...If you have something to say, say it to my 4 posts on Page 4
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:23 AM   #79
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Let me just post those 4 points again...For the people that still would take Stockton over Payton
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:24 AM   #80
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When we discuss this, we aren't talking about who has more PG skills and who can do what a PG is supposed to do better...

Thats not what it means when someone asks Who is the better PG?

Otherwise, Magic or Stockton would always be 1st on EVERYONE's list...But as you see, all anyalysts have Magic 1st...And Stockton is like 3-8...

Stockton and Magic would be 1st on the question..."Who is the better PURE PG", then you would talk about PG and PG only...

But what who is the better player/PG means is../
which one of the 2 players that play PG is better...

Passing is still counted high, but not as high like on the "Pure PG" discussion...


Payton is the better PG
Stockton is the better "Pure PG"

Payton is the better PG because he is the better player that plays PG like Stockton...

Stockton is the better "Pure PG" because he has more PG Skills...


But this discussion is Payton vs. Stockton period...

Not Who is the better "Pure PG", its who is the better Player...
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:25 AM   #81
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Now...

I'll give Stockton that he is the better Pure PG...


But the better PG/Player...Has to be Payton ...

Stockton has a large advantage in passing...

Payton has a large advantage in defense...

That almost cuts down the difference...

But then, Payton has another advantage in scoring...He could score any time...

Breaking down scoring, Stockton has the advantage in shooting, and Payton can drive and post much better than Stockton...


With the addition in scoring, that is enough for Payton to pull the whole edge over Stockton's only advantage, which is passing....


But Payton has even more advantages than that...

He is a MUCH better rebounder...He averages about 50% more rebounds...Stockton's best is 3.3rpg...Payton's best is 6.5rpg...

That says a lot...Stockton is a well below average rebounder, whie Payton is above average...


Steals Stockton has advantage, but Stockton wasn't good at containing...


Another VERY IMPORTANT advantage Payton has is Head to Head...This is a head to head comparision, and Payton has the Head to Head advantage...
By a good amount, he can shut down Stockton, and score on him all day
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:25 AM   #82
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But here are some major points against Stockton...


Stockton can't take over a game like a superstar can...All the other greats can, but really, Stockton can't...


Another, and maybe the biggest thing against Stockton is...


Malone was Clearly the no.1 guy...

Stockton got MOST of assists to Malone...I mean, if the PG was good and the leader, he would give assists to the whole team and show his PG skills...But it was Malone, he was always the one scoring...Yeah, Stockton had great playmaking skills to get Malone the ball and score, but it was usually Malone...Malone scored all the points, Stockton just got the assists mostly to him, only 1 guy...


Take this as a Fact...

Karl Malone is a 2 Time MVP

Stockton hasn't even finished Top 6 in MVP VOTING



Now if you really were that good, and a superstar, and a Top 5 PG...You should've at least finished Top 6 in valublness once in your career...

Payton was once 3rd in MVP Voting...

Stockton was never even 6th...He wasn't what you call, the "leader", the "superstar", etc.


He had great PG skills, but player wise, he was never a take over guy...Like other stars...
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:26 AM   #83
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Lets take a look back at 1996...


The Prime Stockton/Malone combination vs. The Prime Payton/Kemp Combo



In that 1996 Jazz team, Stockton was the no.2 guy...

Malone finished much higher in MVP voting than Stockton, and was really the "leader"

Payton and Kemp were very close, but Payton was the no.1 guy...

Here is what they did in 1996

Kemp:

All-NBA 2nd

Payton:

All-NBA 2nd
All-Defensive 1st
DPOY


Payton also finished higher in MVP voting, showing that he was more valuable to his team than Kemp...



So a Good Jazz team with Stockton as the no.2 guy vs. a Good Sonic Team with Payton as the no.1 guy...


Both Stockton and Payton had the same talent level around them...


But who wins the series...Payton or Stockton...

Payton does...

Payton WINS as the no.1 guy as Stockon loses even though he was the no.2 guy...
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:31 AM   #84
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I'm not reading none of your posts. Save the trouble and learn to type a post in a paragraph form instead of numberous spacings.

Stockton is the better PG. Fact not fiction.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:46 AM   #85
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i am almost convinced that you are gary payton, if not, he must pay you a lot for exerting such an effort.
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Old 07-24-2006, 06:24 AM   #86
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Payton was one of the best defensive PG in the League and could still put up Stockton's stats night in night out.

He had more value to a team than Stockton!!!

Not takin anything away from Stockton
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:35 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

Charley Rosen ranked John Stockton 4 and Gary Payton didn't even make the list.



Charley Rosen is a clown. He wrote an article a few months ago about overrated players. He put Gary Payton on the overrated list. Now it's not the fact he thinks GP is overrated that's a joke, but WHY he thinks GP is overrated.

I'm too lazy to look up the article, so I don't have an exact quote, but he basically says GP's supposed great D was a myth, because Jordan torched GP in the Finals.....

Charley Rosen thinks GP's defense ain't that great because he couldn't shut down MICHAEL JORDAN.

Does that make any sense to you, really?

And for the record, GP throughly outplayed Stockton in the 7 game series in 96. But Stockton is the better PG, GP is just the better overall player.
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:45 AM   #88
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No one who has watched them play can say Payton was better. Anytime anyone makes an all time all position list, Stockton's name comes up along with Magic's and Robertson's. Nobody talks about Payton...
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:51 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
No one who has watched them play can say Payton was better. Anytime anyone makes an all time all position list, Stockton's name comes up along with Magic's and Robertson's. Nobody talks about Payton...


that don't mean GP wasn't good, it's just he's underrated. GP in his prime, is at the very least on Stockton's level, ok? I'm not saying he's BETTER, but he can definitely HANG, and GP's D makes Magic's D look like sh*t.
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:53 AM   #90
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Stockton was the better PG and player of them. We are talking about 5 on 5 bball game not 1 on 1 street game. Stockton had more basketball IQ new how to take the most of his team. Payton had the better team and managed nothing got once to the finals. Stockton had Malone and Hornachek and he was always there.
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