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Old 11-19-2007, 10:47 PM   #16
RidonKs
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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I didnt get the big deal the nand I dont now. Hes a good backup point from what ive seen. TJ Ford is easily superior from what ive seen. And I mean very very easily.
No way in hell. I think TJ's better too, but Calderon isn't a typical backup PG. He's going for 6 assists in under 20 minutes here. Great finisher at the rim, a little like Tony Parker where you can't even believe that they got it over the arms of the bigmen, but it always goes down.

Check the games where he had around 40 minutes.

24/11 in 39 min
14/10 in 40
10/8 in 38
14/8 in 42
19/11 in 40
12/12 in 35

That's no coincidence. He's a brilliant penetrator, and his shots been improving since he started getting consistent minutes last year. Defense is still suspect, and probably one of the main reasons TJ gets the edge (among other smaller advantages TJ has), but that really is his only weakness. He's not a guy you'd want on a team like the Cavs, because he doesn't spot up, but on a team relying on their PG for more than just shooting? They should pray for this guy.

He's more than a good backup, that's for sure.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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Originally Posted by RidonKs
No way in hell. I think TJ's better too, but Calderon isn't a typical backup PG. He's going for 6 assists in under 20 minutes here. Great finisher at the rim, a little like Tony Parker where you can't even believe that they got it over the arms of the bigmen, but it always goes down.

Check the games where he had around 40 minutes.

24/11 in 39 min
14/10 in 40
10/8 in 38
14/8 in 42
19/11 in 40
12/12 in 35

That's no coincidence. He's a brilliant penetrator, and his shots been improving since he started getting consistent minutes last year. Defense is still suspect, and probably one of the main reasons TJ gets the edge (among other smaller advantages TJ has), but that really is his only weakness. He's not a guy you'd want on a team like the Cavs, because he doesn't spot up, but on a team relying on their PG for more than just shooting? They should pray for this guy.

He's more than a good backup, that's for sure.

Co-sign. TJ's athleticism gives him the advantage in several areas IMO. Jose makes a team play better than TJ, though.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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Originally Posted by RidonKs
No way in hell. I think TJ's better too, but Calderon isn't a typical backup PG. He's going for 6 assists in under 20 minutes here. Great finisher at the rim, a little like Tony Parker where you can't even believe that they got it over the arms of the bigmen, but it always goes down.

Check the games where he had around 40 minutes.

24/11 in 39 min
14/10 in 40
10/8 in 38
14/8 in 42
19/11 in 40
12/12 in 35

That's no coincidence. He's a brilliant penetrator, and his shots been improving since he started getting consistent minutes last year. Defense is still suspect, and probably one of the main reasons TJ gets the edge (among other smaller advantages TJ has), but that really is his only weakness. He's not a guy you'd want on a team like the Cavs, because he doesn't spot up, but on a team relying on their PG for more than just shooting? They should pray for this guy.

He's more than a good backup, that's for sure.

Well, that's exactly the point. Nobody here says tha he is an all-star, but when he has played many minutes, he has been so good.

żBetter or worse than TJ? Totally different, that's the truth. But, if you are not an starter, you can only play the best you can to get more minutes, and that's what Calderon is doing. He is doing great when he play, and that's why much people likes him.

Many people thinks he won't be one of the best PG on the league if he starts. Maybe, maybe not. But I really think he has proven he deserves the opportunity to try, cause I am really sure he is one of Top 10 - Top 5 bench players, now.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

Both Jose and TJ would have unquestioned all-star calibre stats if the other wasn't around.

The fact of the matter is having both gives Toronto a great luxury. Rather than hauling TJ just to give him a rest (or vice versa) they can bring someone in who gives the offense a totally different look.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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Kind of like Ben Gordon and a starting SG position.

That just...doesnt make sense. At all. I see maybe one thing I said there that could in any way be applied to Ben and its a pretty non specific thing that could potentially be said of anyone.

Quote:
No way in hell. I think TJ's better too, but Calderon isn't a typical backup PG. He's going for 6 assists in under 20 minutes here. Great finisher at the rim, a little like Tony Parker where you can't even believe that they got it over the arms of the bigmen, but it always goes down.

Check the games where he had around 40 minutes.

24/11 in 39 min
14/10 in 40
10/8 in 38
14/8 in 42
19/11 in 40
12/12 in 35

That's no coincidence. He's a brilliant penetrator, and his shots been improving since he started getting consistent minutes last year. Defense is still suspect, and probably one of the main reasons TJ gets the edge (among other smaller advantages TJ has), but that really is his only weakness. He's not a guy you'd want on a team like the Cavs, because he doesn't spot up, but on a team relying on their PG for more than just shooting? They should pray for this guy.

He's more than a good backup, that's for sure.

He is a backup...with little chance of taking over as starter...on a team where the starter isnt even all star level himself. Hes a backup to a guy who is basically a slightly above average starting point himself.

TJ Ford...the teams clear starter probably forever is maybe in the 9-15 range in the league. Not all these guys are inarguably better but they are all at least in the same range...

Nash
Deron
AI(not exactly a point but hes a 25/8 player who does most of the ball handling in the games ive seen)
Paul
Kidd
Arenas
Billups
Baron
Bibby
Tony Parker
Cassell
Kirk

TJ might be #11 or 12 in the league. I dont know what people want to call Barbosa, Jason Terry, and Devin Harris but all of them are playing great as well. Point is...there are a lot of guys at the position playing on a similar level to TJ(or guys like Bibby who will be back shortly). If the guy starting isnt all that special(elite level wise) what is his backup?

Ive watched the guy a bit. I get why people like him. But ive seen nothing that puts him on another level from Speedy Claxton in his best years(pre Hawks) or Charlie Bell last year(not exactly a point but something like it). Earl Boykins when he was a 6th man of the year contender. Carlos Arroyo in Utah. Hes a good playmaker but hes not starting on many teams.

I dont think being a good backup means youre on the bench for everyone. He could start for some teams in an awful position PG wise but the list of teams he has a good shot to start on isnt long. I count about 8 with only 6 of them being likely. If a team has an average starting point(top 15 or so) he shouldnt be the teams starter. Thats pretty much the definition of good backup to me. If you have a good pointguard situation he should be the #2. If you have a bad one...hes fighting for the starter spot.

I dont think hed start in any situation that Utah level Carlos Arroyo or Hornets level Speedy Claxton wouldnt. Hes probably a better player skill by skill than a few of these guys but I cant see him as the starter on a team not looking for a better point. I dont think anyone is content with him as the consistient starter. There are teams he could be third string on. In fact there are 2 teams in texas alone that he might not be #1 or #2 on.

In the big book of basketball definitions he should be the picture next to "Backup pointguard".

Hes good at it...but hes a backup point.

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 11-20-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:47 AM   #21
Uchiha_Hai
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

No, but I'm beginning to notice how lucky the Raptors were last year.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
That just...doesnt make sense. At all. I see maybe one thing I said there that could in any way be applied to Ben and its a pretty non specific thing that could potentially be said of anyone.



He is a backup...with little chance of taking over as starter...on a team where the starter isnt even all star level himself. Hes a backup to a guy who is basically a slightly above average starting point himself.

TJ Ford...the teams clear starter probably forever is maybe in the 9-15 range in the league. Not all these guys are inarguably better but they are all at least in the same range...

Nash
Deron
AI(not exactly a point but hes a 25/8 player who does most of the ball handling in the games ive seen)
Paul
Kidd
Arenas
Billups
Baron
Bibby
Tony Parker
Cassell
Kirk

TJ might be #11 or 12 in the league. I dont know what people want to call Barbosa, Jason Terry, and Devin Harris but all of them are playing great as well. Point is...there are a lot of guys at the position playing on a similar level to TJ(or guys like Bibby who will be back shortly). If the guy starting isnt all that special(elite level wise) what is his backup?

Ive watched the guy a bit. I get why people like him. But ive seen nothing that puts him on another level from Speedy Claxton in his best years(pre Hawks) or Charlie Bell last year(not exactly a point but something like it). Earl Boykins when he was a 6th man of the year contender. Carlos Arroyo in Utah. Hes a good playmaker but hes not starting on many teams.

I dont think being a good backup means youre on the bench for everyone. He could start for some teams in an awful position PG wise but the list of teams he has a good shot to start on isnt long. I count about 8 with only 6 of them being likely. If a team has an average starting point(top 15 or so) he shouldnt be the teams starter. Thats pretty much the definition of good backup to me. If you have a good pointguard situation he should be the #2. If you have a bad one...hes fighting for the starter spot.

I dont think hed start in any situation that Utah level Carlos Arroyo or Hornets level Speedy Claxton wouldnt. Hes probably a better player skill by skill than a few of these guys but I cant see him as the starter on a team not looking for a better point. I dont think anyone is content with him as the consistient starter. There are teams he could be third string on. In fact there are 2 teams in texas alone that he might not be #1 or #2 on.

In the big book of basketball definitions he should be the picture next to "Backup pointguard".

Hes good at it...but hes a backup point.

If you really think Iverson, Arenas, Billups, Baron and Bibby are better PG than Tony Parker and Sam Cassell, I can understand all you said above, but I can't understand what you think a good PG is.

Nash, Deron, Paul, Kidd, T. Parker and Casell are sure the best PG at league, but no one of the others you said (Iverson as PG... not even close). You really need to read that big book you mentioned to learn what a PG is.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

He's good. But not top 10 in the league yet. maybe top 20 somewhere along andre miller's level. Watched his play for spain last year and i was impressed. sergio from the blazers is not bad too. flashy dude.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I dont think hed start in any situation that Utah level Carlos Arroyo or Hornets level Speedy Claxton wouldnt. Hes probably a better player skill by skill than a few of these guys but I cant see him as the starter on a team not looking for a better point. I dont think anyone is content with him as the consistient starter. There are teams he could be third string on. In fact there are 2 teams in texas alone that he might not be #1 or #2 on.

I haven't seen so much Speedy with the Hornets, but I can tell you that Calderon is clearly better than Arroyo's prime in Utah.

In Texas? I only see Parker being (clearly) above Jose. He would fight for the spot with Harris in Dallas. In both places he would be backup without problem (god, Barea would never be able to compete with him). And for me he is currently above Alston and Mike James, not to mention Steve Francis.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

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If you really think Iverson, Arenas, Billups, Baron and Bibby are better PG than Tony Parker and Sam Cassell, I can understand all you said above, but I can't understand what you think a good PG is.

Nash, Deron, Paul, Kidd, T. Parker and Cassell are sure the best PG at league, but no one of the others you said (Iverson as PG... not even close). You really need to read that big book you mentioned to learn what a PG is.

It wasnt listed in order.

And pointguards dont have to be pass first any more than power forwards have to be enforcers who rebound and play inside. Tony Parker has never been in a game to make plays. Hes there to get to the basket and score while somewhat setting the tempo and usually bringing the ball up. Parker is no more of a point than Baron Davis. In fact hes a good bit worse as a playmaker. I compare a scoring point to a running quarterback. Running doesnt mean you arent a QB and scoring doesnt mean you arent a point. QBs job to get the ball down the field not to pass for passings sake. A points job is to run the offense. If they are the best scorer its not running the offense well to feed inferior players who wont have any success playing a scorers role.

Iverson has been a point for much of his career. Baron Davis has been for his entire career. Being a point who scores doesnt change that.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: anyone else beginning to notice how good Jose Calderon Is?

I have noticed how overrated Calderon is.
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