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Old 12-01-2007, 06:00 PM   #1
Loquacious
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Default Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/

Look at the winners. It's right there for you to see. Other than a 90's Jordan, a legit swingman hasn't won the award...like ever. And even Jordan's stats of the 90's are worse than numbers LeBron and Kobe have put up over the last three years.

I'm serious, I'm through with this award. They award great statitiscal seasons for big men irrelevant of elite records, but when swingmen does it, then everyone wants to make excuses.


Kobe in '05-'06: 35/5/4

LeBron in '05-'06: 31/7/6



...and yet neither of these players get the award cause they give it to a point guard for the 2nd year in a row . For what, putting up 18/10/4 on a 54-win Suns team????????

What the f*ck is up with that????

Even Jordan's raw numbers in the 90's are, AT BEST, on the same level as those numbers. At best. Iverson won the award in '01 with 31/5/4 on 42% shooting. Crazy.

Look at the stats yourself. Big men are rewarded for great statistical seasons, not current-era swingmen.....FACT.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Is it a statistical award? Did I miss something here?
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

You forgot one thing ... winning. It's important.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquacious
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/
Kobe in '05-'06: 35/5/4

LeBron in '05-'06: 31/7/6



Even Jordan's raw numbers in the 90's are, AT BEST, on the same level as those numbers. At best. Iverson won the award in '01 with 31/5/4 on 42% shooting. Crazy.

.



he led his team to the #1 seed in the East tho. Kobe and Lebron weren't even #2 seeds in the years you've mentioned.

its more about winnng than stats.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquacious
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/

Look at the winners. It's right there for you to see. Other than a 90's Jordan, a legit swingman hasn't won the award...like ever. And even Jordan's stats of the 90's are worse than numbers LeBron and Kobe have put up over the last three years.

I'm serious, I'm through with this award. They award great statitiscal seasons for big men irrelevant of elite records, but when swingmen does it, then everyone wants to make excuses.


Kobe in '05-'06: 35/5/4

LeBron in '05-'06: 31/7/6



...and yet neither of these players get the award cause they give it to a point guard for the 2nd year in a row . For what, putting up 18/10/4 on a 54-win Suns team????????

What the f*ck is up with that????

Even Jordan's raw numbers in the 90's are, AT BEST, on the same level as those numbers. At best. Iverson won the award in '01 with 31/5/4 on 42% shooting. Crazy.

Look at the stats yourself. Big men are rewarded for great statistical seasons, not current-era swingmen.....FACT.

Actually, Jordan's stats in every full season save for 1998 (and perhaps 1997; so Jordan at age 34-35) were better than Kobe and Lebron's 2006 numbers, as good as they were. And he had far more defensive impact than Lebron and more than Kobe as well.

The reason he won and they didn't is that he was able to blend his incredible production with a winning team.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Actually, Jordan's stats in every full season save for 1998 (and perhaps 1997; so Jordan at age 34-35) were better than Kobe and Lebron's 2006 numbers, as good as they were. And he had far more defensive impact than Lebron and more than Kobe as well.

The reason he won and they didn't is that he was able to blend his incredible production with a winning team.
Bulls talent >>>>>>>>>>>> Lakers, Cavs talent

Regardless, both LeBron and Kobe won enough games for them to get the award if Nash won it on a 54-win team with just solid stats.

And Jordans stats were not 'better' than LeBeon's or Kobe's.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

I do not even remembered that Steve Nash was a 2 time NBA MVP in this decade, but to tell you the truth when Lebron James lead the Cavaliers to a 50 win team in the 2005-06 Season, and average 31/8/7 I think he would win the MVP race because he make his team look like a legit competition despite missing some of their key players due to injury, and he put up better stats than some of the MVP Candidate's in that season.

Since Michael Jordan retired in 1998 , I think the MVP Voting has never been given it's proper respect, and most of the winner never lead a team to Championship Glory because we all know they have not guts and heart to carry their ALL STAR Team into the next level to prove that they deserve the award not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs because most of the time they lean on their better supporting casts in the regular season, and put a mediocre performance in the post season, which also guarantee the evidence that they are nothing but pretenders.

MVP is nothing but an overrated individual award that lose it's meaning when the award was given to those player that did not even have the balls to prove that they deserve it.

Michael Jordan in his late prime from 1996-1998 is not putting up better numbers that both Bryant and James, but he still manage to win 2 MVP because he is the most popular player at that time in the eyes of Stern and his media darling, and Karl Malone is his only legit competition after leading the Utah Jazz deeper into the playoffs, and have an outstanding record in the regular season.



I think the Miss World Beauty Pageant is > NBA Most Valuable Player
, which means that the MVP awarding is flat out gay.

Last edited by Lebron23 : 12-01-2007 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
And Jordans stats were not 'better' than LeBeon's or Kobe's.
jordan's stats were better than ('06)james' in '90, '91, and '93
jordan's stats were better than ('06)bryant's in '90, '91, '92, and '93
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
jordan's stats were better than ('06)james' in '90, '91, and '93
jordan's stats were better than ('06)bryant's in '90, '91, '92, and '93

I guess you missed the point because he said that both Lebron and Kobe have a better stats on Prime Jordan ( 1996-1998), and they never win the award because they did not get enough votes from the media, coaches, and approval from David Stern to win the MVP Trophy.

Last edited by Lebron23 : 12-01-2007 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
You forgot one thing ... winning. It's important.


Winning is important for them in the regular season, but failing to carry their all star team into the NBA Finals is quite shocking because if you are the best player of the best team in the NBA. You need to play harder in the playoffs and lead your team in the NBA Finals because the award was given at the first place to those player that is important for team success, which is winning an NBA Championship.

I still think that winning an NBA Championship with a far lesser supporting casts is far our better than winning the MVP trophy because we all know that those guys really play the best basketball not only in the regular season, but they also improve tremendously in the post season.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23
I guess you missed the point because he said that both Lebron and Kobe have a better stats on Prime Jordan ( 1996-1998), and they never win the award because they did not get enough votes from the media, coaches, and approval from David Stern to win the MVP Trophy.


Since when is Prime Jordan '96-'98?

Though he still was the best in the league, he was a shell of a shell of himself by then.


Prime Jordan was '88-'90.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIZARRO
Since when is Prime Jordan '96-'98?

Though he still was the best in the league, he was a shell of a shell of himself by then.


Prime Jordan was '88-'90.



I agree because the 1980's Michael Jordan is the best scorer in the history of the NBA, and during that time he is only one of few NBA players that can put some ridiculous stats in the span of more than 12 games.

Last edited by Lebron23 : 12-02-2007 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23


I agree because the 1980's Michael Jordan is the best scorer in the history of the NBA, and during that time he is only of of few NBA players that can put some ridiculous stats in the span of more than 12 games.
How do you know? Aren't you like 14?
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23


I agree because the 1980's Michael Jordan is the best scorer in the history of the NBA, and during that time he is only one of few NBA players that can put some ridiculous stats in the span of more than 12 games.

kobe, wilt, big o maybe the only other 3?
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Since the MVP is swingman bias, I'm through with this award all together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquacious
And Jordans stats were not 'better' than LeBeon's or Kobe's.

Sure they were. Let's take a look at their per 40 numbers:


Kobe per 40 2006: 34.6 pts, 5.2 reb, 4.4 ast, 1.8 stl, .4 blk, 3.1 TO (45% FG)

Lebron per 40 2006: 29.5 pts, 6.6 reb, 6.2 ast, 1.5 stl, .8 blk, 3.1 TO (48% FG)

Jordan per 40 1991: 34.0 pts, 6.5 reb, 6.0 ast, 2.9 stl, 1.1 blk, 2.7 TO (54% FG)

Jordan per 40 1992: 31.0 pts, 6.6 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.0 blk, 2.6 TO (52% FG)

Jordan per 40 1993: 33.1 pts, 6.8 reb, 5.6 ast, 2.9 stl, .8 blk, 2.7 TO (50% FG)

Jordan per 40 1996: 32.2 pts, 7.0 ast, 4.6 ast, 2.3 stl, .5 blk, 2.6 TO (50% FG)


Or, I could just say this:


Kobe's 2006 PER: 28.0

Lebron's 2006 PER: 28.1

Jordan's PER: 31.6 (1991), 27.7 (1992), 29.7 (1993), 29.4 (1996)


Or this:

Kobe's 2006 EFF: 27.8

Lebron's 2006 EFF: 29.4

Jordan's EFF: 32.7 (1991), 31.1 (1992), 31.6 (1993), 28.9 (1996)


So yeah, you were saying? Again, the reason why neither of them won it is because they didn't have enough team success. Lebron finished ahead of Kobe precisely because he had more team success, since their overall production was so similar.
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