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Old 06-23-2006, 07:14 AM   #1
HALLandOATES
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Default Seriously, what seperates Carter from the "Elite Three".?

The talk around ESPN, media, and Players, Coaches and Vets is there is 3 great swingmen in the league right now that ownshine the rest. Kobe of course, Lebron and recently Wade. What has Lebron proved this year that Carter didn't? Carter averaged 30ppg throught the playoffs just like Lebron and carried his team to just about the same point while playing verses a arguebly a tougher team in the second round. Most people would say Carter dosen't deserve the credit due to Jefferson handling the scoring too or Kidd running the show, but as alot of Nets will tell you Carter runs the show alot now as well . LEbron had a great post player and Carter had a great PG, Hughes and Jefferson just about cross eachother out(Jefferson better obvisously). So what seperates Carter from them to you?
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Old 06-23-2006, 07:19 AM   #2
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I think people forget about Vince cause of the whole Toronto thing.
It destroyed him as a player in the eyes of many. There is absolutely no excuse for not trying and giving it your all when your earning 10 million dollars a year.
Plus he takes too many jumpshots.
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Old 06-23-2006, 07:35 AM   #3
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Heart, work ethic, and desire for the game. There is no need to explain the differences between Kobe, Wade, and Vince Carter when it comes to work ethic and heart, we can all clearly see what Wade or Kobe are willing to do to become the best at their craft. With the exception of LeBron, Carter is easily the more superior athlete compared to Wade and Kobe but I guess he doesn't care about basketball the same way Wade and Kobe do. Ray Allen is a lot like Carter in that they view basketball as an occupation, and there's no shame in that. They understand they're only valuable when they're healthy. Vince pushed himself when he came into the league, got his money and went into cruise control. If Carter approached this game the same way the "big 3" do, there's no doubt he'd be thrown into this mix.
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Old 06-23-2006, 07:47 AM   #4
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If carter pushed himself the way kobe does he is the best player in the league bar none IMO. Unfortunately thats a big if and we can see what happens wen he doesnt push himself to his max potential . (He is still a great player reguardless)
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Old 06-23-2006, 08:27 AM   #5
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Default As a TO fan

As a fan of the Raptors, his display as a professional athlete in his final 2-3 season here was absolutly discraseful. No player who pulls what he pulled in TO will ever be considered an elite player in my eyes. I agree he is sickenly talented... but he isn't an elite "player".
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Old 06-23-2006, 08:31 AM   #6
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A better question is why isn't Arenas in the conversation?
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Old 06-23-2006, 08:34 AM   #7
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LOL, TMac is the forgotten man now.

And Pierce is the never-was man.
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Old 06-23-2006, 08:54 AM   #8
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Default Carter is a great player...however

[quote=HALLandOATES]The talk around ESPN, media, and Players, Coaches and Vets is there is 3 great swingmen in the league right now that ownshine the rest. Kobe of course, Lebron and recently Wade. What has Lebron proved this year that Carter didn't? Carter averaged 30ppg throught the playoffs just like Lebron and carried his team to just about the same point while playing verses a arguebly a tougher team in the second round. Most people would say Carter dosen't deserve the credit due to Jefferson handling the scoring too or Kidd running the show, but as alot of Nets will tell you Carter runs the show alot now as well . LEbron had a great post player and Carter had a great PG, Hughes and Jefferson just about cross eachother out(Jefferson better obvisously). So what seperates Carter from them to you?

Carter is a great scorer and even turns up the defense at times, however I would not include him in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 best swingmen in the league. Go with Kobe first obviously...any player that scores 81 points without having a size advantage such as wilt chamberlin did is the best in my mind. Second you go with Lebron although you can't really label him as a swingman as that boy can play any position he wants to (lebron could start games as a pitcher for the Indians if he made a few phone calls). Bron Bron took a young team with no real play-off experience to game seven against the defending champs. Carter helped a team that has been consistently getting spanked in the playoffs for years. D-Wade is up there too, definately behind Lebron and definately in front of Carter...I don't think I need to talk about Wade's recent accomplishments "He is the best player in the game" ---Shaq Fu said it so it has to be true. Put T-Mac up there too, possible 4 spot in front of Carter if he can stay on the court for any decent amount of time. Other contenders that would give Carter a run are Paul Pierce (scoring machine), Ray "Jesus" Allen, and non-traditionals such as shawn marion and tayshaun prince. Vince Carter just hasn't impressed me when it comes to winning...all the guys mentioned above, save pierce, have made great playoff runs or completely carried a team...carter hasn't shown that yet...and dont try and tell me he doesn't have a supporting cast, j-kidd and richard jefferson are great players and nenad kristic isn't bad either.


-congrats miami, zo deserves it
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Old 06-23-2006, 09:14 AM   #9
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the toronto 'fiasco' tainted his image to being nothing more than a dunker.... even thought thats BS
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Old 06-23-2006, 09:38 AM   #10
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Elites:
Kobe
T-Mac
James
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Old 06-23-2006, 09:59 AM   #11
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Lebron
Wade
.
.
.
Kobe
.
Others
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HALLandOATES
LEbron had a great post player and Carter had a great PG, Hughes and Jefferson just about cross eachother out(Jefferson better obvisously). So what seperates Carter from them to you?

first..Hughes and Jefferson don't cross eachother out.....cuz Hughes was gone for a chunk of the season..and some crucial games for the playoffs...but ya

the key is heart..and defence....carter has some terrible terrible defence..and the only reason its not fully exposed is because hes still athletic

also its lebron, wade, and kobes ability and desire to drive to the basket and take the fouls...especially later in the game....
u'll never see that again from carter...hes shoot first...drive 4th

and because of what he did in toronto..he'll always be Half Man Half Season for me
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:09 AM   #13
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The only reason people have so much crap to say about Carter is that when he first came in the league for the next 3-4 years everyone thought he was the next big thing, but he never lived up to it. The exact same thing is happening with T-Mac, Yet both players are still all-stars.

Neither are in the elite bracket because they are'nt on as good a team as Wade/Lebron.

Which is why Kobe is really special because he is on such a bad team, yet his individual brilliance got him to the playoffs and as an MVP candidate.

Vince will be an elite player if he gets an elite team around him, but he cant turn the franchise into a contender unless he Kidd and Jefferson get some help.
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:11 AM   #14
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I remember Vince was drawing all the MJ comparisons pre-Kobe.
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:19 AM   #15
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why is everyone talking about defense as the deciding factor. What defense exists in Lebron and Wade. Obviously, Kobe is an above average defender, all nba if he feels like it. But defensively he's no worse than Lebron or Wade.
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