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Old 12-20-2007, 02:07 PM   #16
dynasty1978
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Kobe has mind control over folks here.....can we bring the Kobe thread back....too many hater and hugger threads of late (mostly of the hater variety, but whatever).
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Jordan would have 0 finals MVPs though...
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Jordan would have 0 finals MVPs though...

BS. Assuming 6 Finals together, he'd likely have 3-4. Jordan isn't Kobe -- he actually dominated in the Finals.

Let's say Jordan averaged 30/7/7.5/2/1/52% and made all the big plays the entire series, while Shaq averaged 35/14/4/3/56%, you mean to tell me that it wouldn't be a tough call for Finals MVP? Also keep in mind that Jordan would maintain his production longer than Shaq assuming they both played together throughout their primes (e.g., if they were together from age 27-34; Shaq has a chance at the first few FMVP's, which isn't guaranteed, but none after that based on his career arc).

Last edited by Loki : 12-20-2007 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Ehhh. I don't normally chime in on any Jordan issues, but don't you think that despite Jordan's obvious excellence, Phil would pretty much have to design the offense around Shaq? The guy is the prototype for what every offense should want to be able to build around. Back to the basket bigman who's incredibly efficient, draws doubles, and passes very well? I know Jordan does much of that as well, but, well, he's not a big man.

I dunno, just seems like Shaq would be a near shoe-in for the MVP, at least for his first few years. Maybe it's just the Laker fan inside me talking though...
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
BS. Assuming 6 Finals together, he'd likely have 3-4. Jordan isn't Kobe -- he actually dominated in the Finals.

Let's say Jordan averaged 30/7/7.5/2/1/52% and made all the big plays the entire series, while Shaq averaged 35/14/4/3/56%, you mean to tell me that it wouldn't be a tough call for Finals MVP? Also keep in mind that Jordan would maintain his production longer than Shaq assuming they both played together throughout their primes (e.g., if they were together from age 27-34; Shaq has a chance at the first few FMVP's, which isn't guaranteed, but none after that based on his career arc).

why would you switch them like that..make it fair(what your saying is switch rookie Kobe with prime GOAT and see what happens and that is stupid)...18 year Jordan to 26 year old Jordan...Kobe didnt play all his absolute prime years with Shaq, why would you put prime best player ever instead of a younger worst player. Plus they Shaq would resent Jordan the same way he resented Kobe for taking the limelight in the press..

So if you put a young Jordan next to Shaq... No way Jordan gets any MVPs.. If he did he would not be playing winning bball because Shaq dominating like he did is the way is meant to be played.. Look at the three peat there is no way Jordan gets any of those MVPs no matter what.
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
why would you switch them like that..make it fair(what your saying is switch rookie Kobe with prime GOAT and see what happens and that is stupid)...18 year Jordan to 26 year old Jordan...Kobe didnt play all his absolute prime years with Shaq, why would you put prime best player ever instead of a younger worst player. Plus they Shaq would resent Jordan the same way he resented Kobe for taking the limelight in the press..

So if you put a young Jordan next to Shaq... No way Jordan gets any MVPs.. If he did he would not be playing winning bball because Shaq dominating like he did is the way is meant to be played.. Look at the three peat there is no way Jordan gets any of those MVPs no matter what.

When you have the highest playoffs scoring average ever and highest finals (12 games minimum) then you would be the man. Shaq dominated the Pacers because Kobe only averaged 15 ppg in that series. He dominated the Sixers because Mckie was locking down Kobe. None of those players would be able to hold Jordan. Also how would a young Jordan not get MVP's when he is older than Shaq? The problem in the Kobe/Shaq saga is that Kobe didn't become a star until he played with Shaq after his 4th year. Jordan came into the league a star.

Also this is what MJ did

Playoffs
Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)

1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86
1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87
1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88
1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89
1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90
1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91
1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92
1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93

1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94
1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95
1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96
1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97
1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98


ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0


ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0


So I think it is fair that MJ would still be the top dog on the team.

Last edited by kgisbigticket : 12-20-2007 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
why would you switch them like that..make it fair(what your saying is switch rookie Kobe with prime GOAT and see what happens and that is stupid)...18 year Jordan to 26 year old Jordan...Kobe didnt play all his absolute prime years with Shaq, why would you put prime best player ever instead of a younger worst player. Plus they Shaq would resent Jordan the same way he resented Kobe for taking the limelight in the press..

So if you put a young Jordan next to Shaq... No way Jordan gets any MVPs.. If he did he would not be playing winning bball because Shaq dominating like he did is the way is meant to be played.. Look at the three peat there is no way Jordan gets any of those MVPs no matter what.



Whatever you say, bud. "No matter what," he says. I guess because Kobe couldn't, no one can. Right...
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

would MJ continuously, selflessly, feed the big dog? because...
"If the Big Dog don't get fed, the Big Dog don't play D"
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

blah blah blah blah. blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah; but blah blah blah blah blah and blah blah blah blah blah blah means blah blah blah.

blah!
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

It really depends on which Jordan we're talking about... If it's Jordan in his prime, I think they would win a slew of championships, although I don't think that he would be as highly regarded as he is now. He'd always have the "he had Shaq" label regardless of how well he played and he wouldn't have all the accolades that he has now. He'd effectively have to sacrifice his game to please Shaq.

I'm also not sure how long he and Shaq would get along for. The first thing that Shaq does that could jeopardize a championship would cause problems instantly. The biggest problem I see arising is Shaq taking time off for insignificant injuries. Those Laker teams didn't have an adequate back up at center when Shaq was out (largely why they did so poorly without him), and Shaq's tendency to overstate injuries is not something Jordan would stand for. It would be an interesting dynamic, but I see things going bad relatively quickly, especially on Shaq's part given that he is the immature one... It would also be interesting to see how Shaq would deal with his jealousies.
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

waiting on that one clown Poseidon to come in and say "less than three actually".

Jordan threads always go the same way now. Someone will start a dumb thread about Jordan where the answer is rather obvious. Something like "who's better, Jordan or Kobe" or "Would Jordan be more successful with the Lakers cast than Kobe?"

And the answers would be like "duh of course, he's Jordan!" for the first two pages. Then when the thread looks like it's gonna die--in comes a troll like Poseidon.

then suddenly everyone gets all riled up and Loki starts posting 14 paragraph posts.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
It really depends on which Jordan we're talking about... If it's Jordan in his prime, I think they would win a slew of championships, although I don't think that he would be as highly regarded as he is now. He'd always have the "he had Shaq" label regardless of how well he played and he wouldn't have all the accolades that he has now. He'd effectively have to sacrifice his game to please Shaq.

I'm also not sure how long he and Shaq would get along for. The first thing that Shaq does that could jeopardize a championship would cause problems instantly. The biggest problem I see arising is Shaq taking time off for insignificant injuries. Those Laker teams didn't have an adequate back up at center when Shaq was out (largely why they did so poorly without him), and Shaq's tendency to overstate injuries is not something Jordan would stand for. It would be an interesting dynamic, but I see things going bad relatively quickly, especially on Shaq's part given that he is the immature one... It would also be interesting to see how Shaq would deal with his jealousies.

Jordan was the real deal, a stronger personality who commanded more respect than Kobe. A lot of the resentment between Kobe and Shaq stemmed from two thing: Kobe being a lot younger and Kobe being a clearly inferior player. Jordan would be both a coeval and a superior (equal at the very worst) player. Shaq would recognize that. No one wants to defer or listen to someone who is both much younger and clearly inferior. That dynamic wouldn't exist with Jordan and Shaq.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Jordan should've just taken 1999 off and come back to play with Pippen and Blazers in 2000.

They would've won the title that year and probably a couple afterwards too.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Jordan was the real deal, a stronger personality who commanded more respect than Kobe. A lot of the resentment between Kobe and Shaq stemmed from two thing: Kobe being a lot younger and Kobe being a clearly inferior player. Jordan would be both a coeval and a superior (equal at the very worst) player. Shaq would recognize that. No one wants to defer or listen to someone who is both much younger and clearly inferior. That dynamic wouldn't exist with Jordan and Shaq.

The resentment that Shaq had for Bryant in those early Laker years had nothing to do with Shaq being forced to listen or asked to defer to Bryant (who was coming off the bench) just like the resentment Shaq for Penny had nothing to do with him being asked to defer or listen to Penny. There was an inherent jealousy that manifested itself because those players got a lot of praise...

Moreover, if Shaq refused to listen to pehaps the GOAT coach in Phil Jackson who he supposedly respected and considered his best coach, it's a joke to think he would listen to Jordan who he would consider an inferior player to himself, regardless of how well Jordan played.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: Replace Kobe with Jordan on the Lakers starting in 1999 ...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
The resentment that Shaq had for Bryant in those early Laker years had nothing to do with Shaq being forced to listen or asked to defer to Bryant (who was coming off the bench) just like the resentment Shaq for Penny had nothing to do with him being asked to defer or listen to Penny. There was an inherent jealousy that manifested itself because those players got a lot of praise...

Moreover, if Shaq refused to listen to pehaps the GOAT coach in Phil Jackson who he supposedly respected and considered his best coach, it's a joke to think he would listen to Jordan who he would consider an inferior player to himself, regardless of how well Jordan played.

Both Penny and Kobe were worse players than Shaq, both of whom were unjustly hyped over Shaq. Again, that dynamic wouldn't exist with Jordan.
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