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Old 06-08-2006, 02:25 PM   #16
JohnnySic
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al jefferson is a future allstar, when everyone else knows he's as good as he's ever going to be.
Damn right brutha.

If Al doesn't become an all-star, he'll have only himself to blame, because he has the talent.
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Old 06-08-2006, 02:31 PM   #17
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I don't touch any of those trades. Lack of size / interior D has killed us. I'm not giving up Zaza unless I get somebody who can start at center for us. Zaza played poor D, but he was in his first season getting minutes, very young, showed good moves and led the league in offensive rebounding most of the year.

Araujo is like a third stringer so no thanks. We're already in enough trouble because we've focused on getting better players rather than ones that fit. I'm not looking to compound the problem.

I don't think there's a deal to be done with the raps. I would do Childress for CV, doubt the raps will.

I'm looking to either get aldridge, foye, roy, or gamble on O'Bryant.


What I don't need is to trade our only big man for another SF/PF. Smith and Marvin are are already SF/PF's. We need PF/C prospects or PG prospects.

CV is a better player, but I think Zaza has more worth because of his size and the lack of big men
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:21 AM   #18
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that trade is not gonna work out, they need a PG!!! and looking at the stats, i couldn't belive ZAZA averaged such numbers! he's getting too much playing time... get a real center to win, trade harrington and childress for say Marcus Camby or Big Z... then trade Lue and Donta Smith for someone like Shaun Livingston, he's gonna be a big time PG in the future... they can also sign and trade JJ in a 2 for 1 deal for maybe Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson? this may work out... since Knicks wants so much talent and lose...:stupid:
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:14 AM   #19
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Wow, after reading Johnny's posts in here, I was tempted to add him to my ignore list. Nothing but absolute crap and idiocity coming from him in this thread. He's usually a better poster than this though, maybe i'll give him another chance.
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Old 06-09-2006, 05:05 AM   #20
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Hey Hawks fans how about

Big Z (inside D and offence)
Hughes (combo gaurd)

for

Joe Johnson
Zaza
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:16 AM   #21
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there are very few players I would trade JJ for, Hughes and Big Z do not come close
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:22 AM   #22
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Wow, after reading Johnny's posts in here, I was tempted to add him to my ignore list. Nothing but absolute crap and idiocity coming from him in this thread. He's usually a better poster than this though, maybe i'll give him another chance.
And why is that? I just dont see any "upswing" in Charlie's game. Or at least not much. I feel he is what he is, basically. And it has nothing to do with who he plays for. I feel the same way about Ryan Gomes, who's a Celtic, so its not a bias thing.

Zaza is one of the bright young big men in the league. Not to the degree of a Dwight Howard, but in the same league as say Chris Kaman and Nenad Krstic. You dont trade that for a 6'9" tweener.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:43 AM   #23
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Not good trades.
No.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
And why is that? I just dont see any "upswing" in Charlie's game. Or at least not much. I feel he is what he is, basically. And it has nothing to do with who he plays for. I feel the same way about Ryan Gomes, who's a Celtic, so its not a bias thing.

Zaza is one of the bright young big men in the league. Not to the degree of a Dwight Howard, but in the same league as say Chris Kaman and Nenad Krstic. You dont trade that for a 6'9" tweener.

Quote:
If Al doesn't become an all-star, he'll have only himself to blame, because he has the talent.

First of all the 6'9" tweener you're talking about is actually 6'11".

How do you sit there and type that Charlie "is what he is" and you don't see him improving? No upswing in Charlie's game? No potential? Riiiiight.... but you see this upswing and potential in Al Jefferson? Future all star? In Charlie's ROOKIE YEAR he has done/accomplished/proved more than Jefferson has. They are basically the same age. It's not like Al has any heavy competition for minutes. He's competing with Raef Lafrentz, Olowankandi and Perkins for the 2 front court spots and yet can't get any significant playing time. Why?

Last edited by Orealius : 06-09-2006 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:16 PM   #25
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First of all the 6'9" tweener you're talking about is actually 6'11".
Charlie measured 6'9 1/2" with shoes at the pre-draft camp. I'll give him 6'10" but not 6'11". Look at him standing next to Bosh; he gives up 2 inches. Anyway, height is somewhat irrelevant because Charlie plays smaller than his height.

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How do you sit there and type that Charlie "is what he is" and you don't see him improving? No upswing in Charlie's game? No potential? Riiiiight.... but you see this upswing and potential in Al Jefferson? Future all star?
Exactly. Learn to decipher between players who are developing (like Big Al) and players who have peaked (like Charlie.) Al has at least as much natural talent as Jermaine O'Neal (a 20/10 guy.) Fulfilling that potential is all on Al's shoulders.
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In Charlie's ROOKIE YEAR he has done/accomplished/proved more than Jefferson has. They are basically the same age. It's not like Al has any heavy competition for minutes.
Charlie is college-trained, Al played against 6'2" guys in high school. (Last season was injury-plagued, so dont use it against him.)

Ryan Gomes was also a rookie last year and averaged something like 12/7 as a starter, about the same as Charlie. But like Charlie, and unlike Al, Gomes is a college-trained, developed player, who wont get much better. Again, the matter of upswing.

Quote:
He's competing with Raef Lafrentz, Olowankandi and Perkins for the 2 front court spots and yet can't get any significant playing time. Why?

Because he had 2 ankle sprains last year which shot his season.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:52 PM   #26
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But like Charlie, and unlike Al, Gomes is a college-trained, developed player, who wont get much better. Again, the matter of upswing.

yeah but he only played two years in college b/c when he wnated to come out he had a big head.

Bet you if you asked who has more upside in their game as a thread, Charlie would beat Al.
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:08 PM   #27
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We just have to agree to disagree. I could be wrong about my notions, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:10 PM   #28
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Bet you if you asked who has more upside in their game as a thread, Charlie would beat Al.
People just dont realize yet how good Al is. I've been watching the C's since the 80's and I'm as high on Al as I've been for any C's player, including Paul Pierce.
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
Zaza is a 7 footer who plays big, can board and defend the lane, and will improve going forward.

Charlie is a peaked tweener who's on his way to emulating Donyell Marshall.

You will forever be known as the person who thinks Zaza Pachulia is better than Charlie Villanueva.


And to that,
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:18 PM   #30
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You will forever be known as the person who thinks Zaza Pachulia is better than Charlie Villanueva.
I will wear it as a badge of pride.
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