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Old 01-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Old Willy

He is clearly Pleezebelieve.

I would take Calderon at this point.

He is about equal in my eyes in passing ability, but he makes smarter passes and turns the ball over less.

Calderon is clearly the better shooter, and I think an elite shooting point guard is important for a player like Chris Bosh to work. Since Calderon has been on this hot shooting streak, Chris Bosh is LEADING THE ENTIRE LEAGUE in field goal %. Now I know he is finally getting healthy and into the flow of the game, but I do tribute a lot of this to Calderon's shooting and the 2 man game that Calderon and Bosh play in the 4th quarter of every game.

Calderon also brings a certain energy and leadership that I don't see in TJ Ford. If Ford is having a bad game he doesn't really help the team in any other way. Calderon, while a worse defender, keeps his intensity up at all times.

Also, Calderon is more consistent and better in the flow of the game. Sometimes TJ Ford throws the whole team off by chucking those stupid free throw line fadeaways. He has quite a few 4-12 games or 3-10 games and those missed shots are hurting the team in more ways then one. Calderon is solid every game and rarely takes a bad shot. That is really important in a point guard in my opinion.

Of course there are points I haven't touched on (i.e. Ford is a better scorer, etc...) but I'm just giving my reasons for choosing Calderon.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

How much is Calderon going to want? Because I hope the Raptors pay him.

I honestly want to keep both of them. Calderon is like our Manu Ginobli or Leandro Barbosa. He is our star 6th man. With Ford starting and Calderon handling our second unit, the Raptors suddenly become a much better team. Far better than they are now. I honestly believe the Raptors should keep both. We won't get anything for Ford due to the injury risks, at least not anywhere near what he's worth, so we gots to keep him and hope that he comes back and is still a good player (I think this will be the case). As for Calderon, all depends on how much other teams are willing to pay him, if the Raptors can match it, and whether or not he wants to stay with the Raptors.

I honestly think Jose will be happy with $7 million a year at this point. Then the Raptors just need to get a rebounding center or have Bargnani toughen up, oh and they might want to draft the best SG available to replace AP once he starts to age.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:22 PM   #33
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Look, this all that needs to be said:

..in 12 more minutes a game than Ford, Calderon shoots on the averages 2 less field goal attempts while converting just .8 less baskets. He also averages 2 more assists more with 1 less turnover.

There really shouldn't be a debate as to who is the more skilled guy and better fit for what the Raptors do. These numbers perfectly show not only is Calderon the far more efficient guy, he still has room to get better. Even on 9 FGA, he greatly effects the game that Ford can't do on on 3 more shot attempts per contest.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Created Player
Look, this all that needs to be said:

..in 12 more minutes a game than Ford, Calderon shoots on the averages 2 less field goal attempts while converting just .8 less baskets. He also averages 2 more assists more with 1 less turnover.

There really shouldn't be a debate as to who is the more skilled guy and better fit for what the Raptors do. These numbers perfectly show not only is Calderon the far more efficient guy, he still has room to get better. Even on 9 FGA, he greatly effects the game that Ford can't do on on 3 more shot attempts per contest.

You overly simplified that comparison. Just watch games when they are both healthy. Watch every aspect of their games. Look at the outcomes of the games where both play very well. Do it, I dare you to.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by A.M.G.
I honestly want to keep both of them. Calderon is like our Manu Ginobli or Leandro Barbosa. He is our star 6th man. With Ford starting and Calderon handling our second unit, the Raptors suddenly become a much better team. Far better than they are now. I honestly believe the Raptors should keep both. We won't get anything for Ford due to the injury risks, at least not anywhere near what he's worth, so we gots to keep him and hope that he comes back and is still a good player (I think this will be the case). As for Calderon, all depends on how much other teams are willing to pay him, if the Raptors can match it, and whether or not he wants to stay with the Raptors.

I actually (respectfully) disagree. You can't keep both of them at this point and reach your full potential as a team. They both need to be playing full starters minutes. They have both showed that they would be all-stars with 35 minutes a night, you can't go back go giving them 24 minutes a night again, it hurts your team to have that much starter talent on the bench.

The different with players like Barbosa and Ginobli is they can play multiple position and thereby can stay on the court in many different situations. Calderon and Ford are both point guards and only point guards. In this system neither could get away with being shooting guard for too long. Calderon is too poor a defender and Ford is simply much too small and needs the ball in his hands to make anything happen.

What Toronto needs is an athletic SF/SG with shooting skills. It really hurts the team having Ford or Calderon on the bench in favor of Moon or Kapono simply because of the position they play. It's simple, if you have 2 elite players at the same position (and can't play others) you trade 1 to shore up your weaknesses.

I'm going to write an essay now so that's my last post on this matter.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by A Roc 23
I actually (respectfully) disagree. You can't keep both of them at this point and reach your full potential as a team. They both need to be playing full starters minutes. They have both showed that they would be all-stars with 35 minutes a night, you can't go back go giving them 24 minutes a night again, it hurts your team to have that much starter talent on the bench.

The different with players like Barbosa and Ginobli is they can play multiple position and thereby can stay on the court in many different situations. Calderon and Ford are both point guards and only point guards. In this system neither could get away with being shooting guard for too long. Calderon is too poor a defender and Ford is simply much too small and needs the ball in his hands to make anything happen.

What Toronto needs is an athletic SF/SG with shooting skills. It really hurts the team having Ford or Calderon on the bench in favor of Moon or Kapono simply because of the position they play. It's simple, if you have 2 elite players at the same position (and can't play others) you trade 1 to shore up your weaknesses.

I'm going to write an essay now so that's my last post on this matter.

Agreed.

Also, trade Ford and keep Calderon.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

i would take cauldron. not much turn overs and shoots high percentage. isn't that what you want from your point guard or any player.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:47 PM   #38
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by poeticism707
Agreed.

Also, trade Ford and keep Calderon.
Again, no one will want Ford and his contract. Especially not for anything good.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:08 PM   #39
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Created Player
Look, this all that needs to be said:

..in 12 more minutes a game than Ford, Calderon shoots on the averages 2 less field goal attempts while converting just .8 less baskets. He also averages 2 more assists more with 1 less turnover.

There really shouldn't be a debate as to who is the more skilled guy and better fit for what the Raptors do. These numbers perfectly show not only is Calderon the far more efficient guy, he still has room to get better. Even on 9 FGA, he greatly effects the game that Ford can't do on on 3 more shot attempts per contest.

How much better can he get? He's 26, his shot has improved so much it's hard to agree that it will improve even more. Unless his lateral quicks suddenly improve and he becomes a better defender, I don't see why you mention his upside and discount Ford's. As hippos said, watch every game and then see if it's so obvious. But then again :

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Old 01-24-2008, 04:20 PM   #40
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

People who say they are equal in passing are missing that Calderon simply doesn't make that many penetrating passes on a regular basis....he swings teh ball...he still needs to work on true post entry...he's not very good at it...and unless you are Jamario Moon and get to the top of the box he's not trowing you many passes on cuts to the rim....

Also he doesn't have the abilty to pressure opposing points...TJ does this at key points of many games...its a big difference....TJ can turn a guy and then be there when the guy turns around......B4 his shot started falling this wasn't that close and Calderon can be more aggresive going to the rim he's got a knack for turning the corner...If he progresses...and just steps up more defensively he can '
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:28 PM   #41
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Calderon is the better player in my eyes. But if you wanted to trade one itd be Calderon becasue the difference in the two isnt as large as the difference in what you could pull for them. Calderon could net you a nice player.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by Skywalker
Calderon is the better player in my eyes. But if you wanted to trade one itd be Calderon becasue the difference in the two isnt as large as the difference in what you could pull for them. Calderon could net you a nice player.

Good point.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Calderon has been one of my favourite players since Tau so I have to agree with PB

That said, if the Raptors are sure Ford will come back healthy, they should try to trade Jose. He's got a high trade value now, while nearly nobody would trade for Ford now.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:18 PM   #44
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
Remember the last game Ford played against Atlanta? Remember a couple of those playoff games? Calderon has never carried a team like that. Even last night doesn't come close. Sure, he came up big at key moments and did score 24 points or whatever, but he has never taken over a game like Ford has for the Toronto offense. Add onto that, that Ford's playmaking isn't far behind Calderon's, like I said unless Calderon played like last night all the time, I'll take Ford.

I guess you only consider the NBA as real basketball, cause I think the Spanish team won the last World Championship. And I think the point guard of that team was J. Calderon.. And I always thought the J was Jose.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:22 PM   #45
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydacris
tj ford is also more important in sam mitchell's late game strategies
"get tj the ball, he'll do the rest!" -mitchell
"wut do u want me to do, coach?" -tj
"go go go, play hard!!" -mitchell

i love the beautiful tj ford isolation end game plays


You have to be kidding. TJ's lost as many games for us as he's won in late game situations. Now that may not be all of TJ's fault, the coach should draw up a play, but TJ's decision making abilities are severely limited.
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