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Old 01-24-2008, 06:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Colangelo was on the Daily Dish Podcast with Chad Ford and he said that theyre going to match any offer for Calderon, and he is a restricted FA and there arent much teams with cap room (Philly comes to mind, but they have Sweet Louis and may make a play for Brand or some other FA). My guess is that they are able to give Calderon a contract a little above the MLE, but he will become the starter and Ford will start to play with the 2nd unit.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
You're only looking at one side though.

What if they risk keeping Ford and he stays healthy and turns into the star PG that he was on his way to becoming? Great move Raptors.

It's riskier to keep Ford but IMO there is also a much greater possible reward.

You keep going on like Ford has the potential to an all time great! I don't see that potential. I see a very high risk player with limited potential who is too small. And, his decision making abilities will continue to haunt him and the team he plays for.

How much potential do you think he has, how much better do you think he can be? Will you prognosticate numbers?

He's a small and light point guard with real injury issues whose main asset is speed. His speed means very little because in two years he will probably rank mid top ten in his best category.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

And you are severely underrating his decision making and making it seem as if he's a complete moron. It's like the only game this year you watched was the Utah game (where Ford admittedly played like shit and frustrated the hell out of me) and the rest never happened. Ford carried the team early on when Bosh was MIA and barely anyone else was hitting their shots as well.

Ford recognizes games where he will be a passer/playmaker first (like the early Chicago game) and games where he has to score since no one else is doing it (that Boston game).

People talk about how the Raptors don't win when Ford scores a lot. Well no shit they won't. If Ford has to be a 1st option on any team, that team isn't going to amount to much. Bosh was off his game for the first 15 games or so and Ford being the 2nd best scoring talent on the team had to step that up. That to me is one sign of good decision making. The point guards job isn't to just pass the ball, it's to make the best decision possible on offense. Sometimes that means scoring and sometimes it doesn't, Ford did a great job recognizing this to start the year.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:39 PM   #49
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by A.M.G.
Again, no one will want Ford and his contract. Especially not for anything good.

All we need from TJ right now is an expiring contract. BC can fill in the holes given a roster spot and money to play with. So trade TJ and who cares what we get as long as it's not a long term contract.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by b4ball
All we need from TJ right now is an expiring contract. BC can fill in the holes given a roster spot and money to play with. So trade TJ and who cares what we get as long as it's not a long term contract.
Exactly. Trade TJ for an expirer and replace Calderon at his salary slot?

What so hard to understand about this?

I mean, some of your are saying sign both of them like either of them are okay with that.

It just baffles me to see a large segment of a fanbase seemingly oblivious to the huge risk factor on a player that has been seriously injured TWICE by the age of 24. And keep in mind, I'm not even using the injury factor as the main reason why I would chose Calderon over Ford-- to me it's the icing on the cake. But yet I see people actually suggesting ridding themselves of Calderson to play a guy that's ARGUABLY not better than him PLUS is seriously injury-prone.

Wow.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:56 PM   #51
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

Want them both!

Oh….if it wasn’t for that Hawks game…what could’ve been?!

If I had to pick one, JoCal definitely! I wouldn’t have said that back in November.

JoCal has shown more than just something-something the last month and a half. The dude’s got a friggin chance to make the all-star team. Dat’s serious onions.

There’s room for 2 potential all-star PGs in Raptor Nation. Colangelo isn't a mutant GM for nothin.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
And you are severely underrating his decision making and making it seem as if he's a complete moron. It's like the only game this year you watched was the Utah game (where Ford admittedly played like shit and frustrated the hell out of me) and the rest never happened. Ford carried the team early on when Bosh was MIA and barely anyone else was hitting their shots as well.

Ford recognizes games where he will be a passer/playmaker first (like the early Chicago game) and games where he has to score since no one else is doing it (that Boston game).

People talk about how the Raptors don't win when Ford scores a lot. Well no shit they won't. If Ford has to be a 1st option on any team, that team isn't going to amount to much. Bosh was off his game for the first 15 games or so and Ford being the 2nd best scoring talent on the team had to step that up. That to me is one sign of good decision making. The point guards job isn't to just pass the ball, it's to make the best decision possible on offense. Sometimes that means scoring and sometimes it doesn't, Ford did a great job recognizing this to start the year.

Q, as I have said before, TJ is lousy in late game situations, especially when games matter. (And I watched a few games this year, and the year before that, actually about 90% of their games since the entered the league, probably 70 games live). We disagree on this point, but I'm not the one saying TJ is worth the risk and that we should trade Jose for somebody. Your the one saying TJ has so much potential that he's worth the risk.

My question to you is what kind of potential do you see, cause I can tell you, he's no Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, John Stockton, Magic Johnson or any other of the very good or great point guards to have played the game.

I guess what I want to know is, do you understand how much potential their would need to be to justify the risk your willing to take?
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

I see Ford as the potential to have a Tony Parker-like impact on a good team. A good PG who will recognize when it's time to pass or score. Not much range on his jump shot but one who will utilize the midrange and close to the basket game more. Could be a decent 2nd option but probably better suited as a 3rd option scoring wise.

He's a better playmaker than Parker but not as good of a finisher around the rim but impact-wise, I think he can be that type of player.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:14 PM   #54
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

i wouldn't. tj ford is an incredible player but way, way too injury prone. poor kid.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:22 PM   #55
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

Quote:
The dude’s got a friggin chance to make the all-star team.

You don't think that if Ford is playing around 38 minutes a game (which Calderon has been playing as a starter) that he wouldn't be mentioned as a possible all star? Like Qwyjibo showed earlier in this thread, Ford's stats are on par with Calderon's playing significantly less minutes.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:24 PM   #56
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
I see Ford as the potential to have a Tony Parker-like impact on a good team. A good PG who will recognize when it's time to pass or score. Not much range on his jump shot but one who will utilize the midrange and close to the basket game more. Could be a decent 2nd option but probably better suited as a 3rd option scoring wise.

He's a better playmaker than Parker but not as good of a finisher around the rim but impact-wise, I think he can be that type of player.
Ideally at their peak:

Calderon = Nash

Ford = Parker

Now which would you have? Especially in a spread, wide open offense like the Raptors use?

..and as it stands now, Calderon is closer to being a Nash than Ford is to a Parker. Once agains, I just don't see how anyone can argue Ford over Calderon. It's a freaking no-brainer. And when you factor in Calderon is in the processing of getting consistent playing time as a starter, like Ford's been getting for two years, it makes this 'argument' comical in nature.

If you Toronto fans don't want him, send him to Cleveland....I beg you.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Calderon = Nash
Now that's being VERY generous. Calderon's style of play is almost nothing like Nash's. Nash gets into the paint consistently and is a much better playmaker and passer.

I guess that can be an absolute best case scenario for Calderon but then Ford's is Isiah Thomas. Neither will reach these plateaus but if we're looking at the best possible scenario then there you have it.

My Parker comparison was trying to be a tad realistic.

Last edited by Qwyjibo : 01-24-2008 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:36 PM   #58
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calderon?

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Originally Posted by TJ4'D
You don't think that if Ford is playing around 38 minutes a game (which Calderon has been playing as a starter) that he wouldn't be mentioned as a possible all star? Like Qwyjibo showed earlier in this thread, Ford's stats are on par with Calderon's playing significantly less minutes.
Ford's play doesn't put Toronto at it's peak. At 38 minutes a night...

Ford = scorer/distributor

Calderon = orchestrator

I really can't put it any differently. Dude just contains the pace beautifully.

, seriously, I can't believe there are so many people arguing AGAINST Calderon. This is so funny to me. Surely a fanbase can't be this ignorant, can it? Calderon is averages in January are just about the same stats Nash put up his first MVP year (15/10/3/2 on 53% and 50% from 3 while averaging 10 shots per game and a 5:1 ast/TO ratio )

You've got be joking.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:37 PM   #59
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Created Player
Ideally at their peak:

Calderon = Nash

Ford = Parker

Now which would you have? Especially in a spread, wide open offense like the Raptors use?

..and as it stands now, Calderon is closer to being a Nash than Ford is to a Parker. Once agains, I just don't see how anyone can argue Ford over Calderon. It's a freaking no-brainer. And when you factor in Calderon is in the processing of getting consistent playing time as a starter, like Ford's been getting for two years, it makes this 'argument' comical in nature.

If you Toronto fans don't want him, send him to Cleveland....I beg you.

As much as I would like to see that, It`s not gonna happen. Ideally, I see Calderons peak somewhere closer to where deron williams is right now.

Last edited by Kungfro : 01-24-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:38 PM   #60
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Quote:
And when you factor in Calderon is in the processing of getting consistent playing time as a starter, like Ford's been getting for two years, it makes this 'argument' comical in nature.

Actually, what is comical is the fact that you are trying to say that Calderon's minutes as a starter this season is even comparable to the minutes that Ford got with the Raptors for the last two. Calderon is averaging 37 minutes as a starter while Ford averaged 27 as a starter this year. 10 minutes difference in playing time isn't what I would consider comparable, but then again coming from you I wouldn't expect anything better. Hell, even last year Ford only averaged 30 minutes (rounded up) which is still almost 8 minutes less then what Calderon averages in his starts. This certainly isn't comparable.

Quote:
Calderon = Nash

I take back what I said about the minute discrepency being comical, this is comical. I'm not even going to bother responding to this because the chances of Calderon ever equalling what Nash does is about 0.001%.

I can make absured statements as well. TJ Ford = Isiah Thomas.
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