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Old 01-24-2008, 07:44 PM   #31
Da KO King
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCY
You can't see something that's not there. His statements in this thread are just wrong.
Point Guard play for the Nuggets has been weak all season and Iverson spends half his minutes at the PG spot.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Weak? How?
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32MJ32
Weak? How?
- the team isn't effectively pushing the ball on offense because the PG's aren't grabbing the long rebounds like they did last season
- they aren't getting into the offense as fast because all their PG's try to dribble the rock up instead of pass it up
- their half-court sets are ineffective because the PG's aren't correcting the spacing
- Carmelo is getting doubled too easily because the PG's either make an entry pass and follow it with a lazy cut or they don't cut at all
- defensively the guards (JR Smith is guilty too) are gambling a lot more than they should and are allowing dribble penetration too often
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
- the team isn't effectively pushing the ball on offense because the PG's aren't grabbing the long rebounds like they did last season
- they aren't getting into the offense as fast because all their PG's try to dribble the rock up instead of pass it up

45% of the Nuggets shot attempts come in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock for 40.2 points per game. http://www.82games.com/0708/0708DEN3.HTM That's slightly behind Phoenix, the highest scoring team in the league. http://www.82games.com/0708/0708PHO3.HTM

Quote:
- their half-court sets are ineffective because the PG's aren't correcting the spacing
- Carmelo is getting doubled too easily because the PG's either make an entry pass and follow it with a lazy cut or they don't cut at all

This is some subjective **** right here. If you say so, guy.

Quote:
- defensively the guards (JR Smith is guilty too) are gambling a lot more than they should and are allowing dribble penetration too often

I agree. Iverson has never been a stopper, though. That's Carter's job. And he doesn't do it. Contending that they're worse defensively than they were when Miller was there is laughable, so don't even bother.

Finally:

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708DEN5.HTM

Denver's point guards are outplaying their opponents and its the second best position on the floor behind small forward.

Thanks for playing.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

Steve Blake was one of the realest point gaurds in the league and they got rid of him. But they weren't very good when they had him anyways. I think the blame for the nuggets underachieving has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the coach and his complete lack of defensive schemes
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

hey its joe with his monthly "bash AI" thread!

how do you feel about the Warriors destroying your boys last year?? Dirk with 8 points?

(this question always drives him away. its like bug spray. lasts a month)
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

if George Karl coached like the "legened" he says he is in auto and got this team to play defense like they did vs the spurs,Jazz, and the Magic when they all came to denver for a game this team would be one of the best in the league. until that happenes we'll be the underachieving team we are now...
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32MJ32
45% of the Nuggets shot attempts come in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock for 40.2 points per game....
The same link you provided also shows the offense shot a better percentage in the first 15 seconds last season. Doesn't that count in the effectiveness I spoke of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32MJ32
I agree. Iverson has never been a stopper, though. That's Carter's job. And he doesn't do it. Contending that they're worse defensively than they were when Miller was there is laughable, so don't even bother.
So Iverson's gambling is excusable because he's always been a below average defender? His and the other guards leaving the front line guys scrambling should just be looked over?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32MJ32
Denver's point guards are outplaying their opponents and its the second best position on the floor behind small forward.

Thanks for playing.
Ah the mighty PER stat. I think PER is the stupidest and most over-rated "advanced stat" in basketball so forgive me for not caring.

What was the team's percentage of interior shots pre-Allen Iverson trade versus post-Iverson; what was the team's field goal percentage pre-AI versus post-AI?
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

Bruinlove has it right. It's Karl's system that's the problem. You give that talent to Popovich or Phil Jackson = Championship.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:47 PM   #40
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

Anthony Carter has been a great upgrade over Steve Blake as far as assists, defense, and clutch play. It's not even close and thats shocking.

we need work everywhere but Carter is 5x better than Blake. It worked out well for us. Carter makes the league minimum and we offered Blake a fortune which he screwed up.

from a source within Denver's front office:
Quote:
We offered Blake 4 for 16. He turned us down, insisiting he had 5 for 25 from Portland. We played this game with him for a week, telling him we were gonna sign Chucky if he turned us down.

Within hours of us committing to Chucky, Blake signed 3 years and 12 with Portland. His agent was lying, we were not.

Last edited by AI Nuggets3 : 01-24-2008 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Nuggets3
hey its joe with his monthly "bash AI" thread!

how do you feel about the Warriors destroying your boys last year?? Dirk with 8 points?

(this question always drives him away. its like bug spray. lasts a month)


bump
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
Originally Posted by starface
They would be better off trading Carmelo for a true point guard and filling his spot with a forward who has an all-around game that includes defense and intelligence. You could put Stephen Hawking on the court with Carmelo, Iverson, JR SMith and Kenyon Martin, and they would still collectively be the dumbest team in basketball. Carmelo is also probably the league's most overrated player. They should try to trade him while people still actually give a **** about him. In two years, they won't.
All you'd have would be the old sixers.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

Quote:
So Iverson's gambling is excusable because he's always been a below average defender? His and the other guards leaving the front line guys scrambling should just be looked over?
The main reason players blow by AI is not because he gambles for steals in a sense that he just goes to pick it and he misses and from that point on he's lazy and just gives up. Iverson doesn't steal the ball by pick-pocketing like a Ron Artest. He gets his steals off interceptions. He goes for an interception, doesn't get it, a player recieves the pass and attacks the rim. They're not really blowing by him, just... Iverson gambling. But either way, chances are his man is going to get around him somehow. So yes, he is a reason that there is a lot of penetration, but the main reasons guards penetrate by him so much is because A) He gets outmuscled; he's too small B) He can't get around a pick for beans.

And for the record, yes I agree with a lot of what you said about sub-par point guard production like not getting the ball to the right places, spacing, etc, but here's a stat I thought I'd throw out there just for the heck of it:


Games Iverson started at SG: 27.5 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.8 spg, .434%
Games Iverson started at PG: 26.3 pgg, 2.5 rpg, 7.9 apg, 2.5 spg, .498%

And the Nuggets have won 18 straight when AI has 10+ assists. So statistically, PG play has been great. Just not always as good production in terms of on-the-court visuals.

Last edited by Richie2k6 : 01-24-2008 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:58 PM   #44
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point gua

in all seriousness, to win with Iverson you either need 4 scrappy defensive minded guys that can rebound or you need an insanely talented offensive squad.

Denver's problem is their offense. The pace hides it but a lot of times they're more consistent on defense than offense. Their offense has been disgusting a lot of games mostly because George Karl doesn't run plays. There is no system whatsoever and its by design.

25-16 in the west playing pickup basketball is actually OVER ACHIEVING. They're in first place in their divsion without running a single play. That's hilarious, sad, and amazing all at the same time.

now back to joewait. we're all still waiting for your 2007 playoff analysis. come on, joe. share your feelings
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Old 01-24-2008, 09:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: Serious question: would the nuggets have been better if they had a real point guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Nuggets3
Anthony Carter has been a great upgrade over Steve Blake as far as assists, defense, and clutch play. It's not even close and thats shocking.

we need work everywhere but Carter is 5x better than Blake. It worked out well for us. Carter makes the league minimum and we offered Blake a fortune which he screwed up.

from a source within Denver's front office:
I think Blake is a more pure pointgaurd and better distributor than Carter. He might not rack up tons of assists but he makes the pass that gets the offense started. He's not a good shooter but true pointgaurds aren't supposed to be..but anyways not the point at all, the point is The Nugz front office needs to fire Karl and somehow get Rick Riley out of Miami
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