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Old 02-03-2008, 04:25 PM   #31
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Cannonball
Looks like they are well grounded into the education system over in "west Europe".... Unbelievable

you go ahead and pinpoint a single thing that's wrong there.

if free market system worked so well, why did whole world's economy crumble in 1929?
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:25 PM   #32
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

By having healthcare, the level of quality of hospitals will go way down, and it'll take forever to see a doctor since so many people are going to the hosipital for every little thing, since they can go in for free. And if you want to see a private doctor, you'll being paying the heavy healthcare tax along with paying the doctor.

It's unfair for those people who aren't sick all year around that they have to take a huge portion of their money into other people's needs.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by mhsbasketball
By having healthcare, the level of quality of hospitals will go way down, and it'll take forever to see a doctor since so many people are going to the hosipital for every little thing, since they can go in for free. And if you want to see a private doctor, you'll being paying the heavy healthcare tax along with paying the doctor.

It's unfair for those people who aren't sick all year around that they have to take a huge portion of their money into other people's needs.

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Old 02-03-2008, 04:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhsbasketball
By having healthcare, the level of quality of hospitals will go way down, and it'll take forever to see a doctor since so many people are going to the hosipital for every little thing, since they can go in for free. And if you want to see a private doctor, you'll being paying the heavy healthcare tax along with paying the doctor.

It's unfair for those people who aren't sick all year around that they have to take a huge portion of their money into other people's needs.





Any time someone TAKES from one for the good of another its called THEFT!
IT IS A CRIME!

If you want to see the quality of healthcare dive drastically, lets socialize it. We are already importing doctors and nurses like crazy (most notably from India and the Middle East). If we socialize medicine, we can expect to see almost nothing but foreigners runnning our healthcare. Why? Because the best and brightest in the country expect to be compensated to go to 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school ANOTHER 4 years if they specialize, and then 2 to 3 years or residency. The fact of the matter is, the best and the brightest are choosing alternative careers as a result of the current healthcare situation and it would become even worse under gov't controlled healthcare.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Healthcare should be affordable and accessible to all Americans who are willing/able to work, or through some the university they attend. We as a nation need to take care of our people when they are sick/injured. There is just so much red tape to have to go through, that it's very mind boggling. Also, many people are DENIED healthcare b/c of very minor pre-existing conditions. Don't go to either extreme. Making it completely free would create it's own set of problems, but people who are willing/able to work should get healthcare through their company, and not at some obscene cost.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Heilige


Any time someone TAKES from one for the good of another its called THEFT!
IT IS A CRIME!

so all other ways of taxing would be theft too? since state takes taxes to maintain police for good of everyone, that's theft too? how does that fit into your "survival of the fittest" doctrine?
shouldn't we abolish the state altogether then? give everyone weapons, and make everyone settle for himself? since, you know, "you're responsible for you, and no one else"?
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by mlh1981
Making it completely free would create it's own set of problems, but people who are willing/able to work should get healthcare through their company, and not at some obscene cost.

nowhere in the world it is entirely free.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:36 PM   #38
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
Healthcare should be affordable and accessible to all Americans who are willing/able to work, or through some the university they attend. We as a nation need to take care of our people when they are sick/injured. There is just so much red tape to have to go through, that it's very mind boggling. Also, many people are DENIED healthcare b/c of very minor pre-existing conditions. Don't go to either extreme. Making it completely free would create it's own set of problems, but people who are willing/able to work should get healthcare through their company, and not at some obscene cost.


It's NOT THE JOB OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

This is a states issue if anything at all. We are a republic. The sooner people get that through their heads, the better.

And there are a great many things that are "vital life items" do we have to provide all of them to every US citizen? Food, health care, heat, housing, medicine, phone(fire/emergency situation), radio(emergency broadcast), air conditioning, GFC's, smoke detectors, etc. And if it was the federal governments constitutional duty to provide those why did we go 200 years before we made them do it?

Mabey the #1 grade school curriculum should be personal and fiscal responsibility... and basic economics on how free trade actually works...

Of course this would never happen in a liberal school system... teaching people how to be self sustaining.....

Liberals love that idea, after all why should money be the determinant factor in who can afford health care right? To them money shouldn't determine who lives in a better house, has more mobility, healthcare or anything else, heck just get rid of it alltogether and let the government and voters make those choices, right comrades?
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Sharas
so all other ways of taxing would be theft too? since state takes taxes to maintain police for good of everyone, that's theft too? how does that fit into your "survival of the fittest" doctrine?
shouldn't we abolish the state altogether then? give everyone weapons, and make everyone settle for himself? since, you know, "you're responsible for you, and no one else"?




socialized medicine is not constituitional. the only things the government should do for the people is in the constitution. IE.police.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
Healthcare should be affordable and accessible to all Americans who are willing/able to work, or through some the university they attend. People who are willing/able to work should get healthcare through their company, and not at some obscene cost.


Remove ridicules regulation...

Remove ridiculous lawsuits and sky high legal fees and fines...

Medicaid currently covers these people as long as they are LOOKING FOR WORK.... If they have a disability then they need to be assessed and placed on the Medicaid insurance. This requires that they get assessed. If they refuse to get assessed then I have no sympathy for them.

We currently have programs that are working, be it mediocre at best. No system will be perfect but looking at how our legislators have handled the retirement system and how they have mishandled the monies that were to be used for it I have NO FAITH in government handling the medical industry.

The best thing the government can do is get out of it.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
1. that's the 18th century way of thinking. which has been disproven almost a century ago. ever heard of j.m. keynes? ever hear of great economical crisis in 1929? if that what you wrote was true, all economic regulation would be unneeded. all the economical boards, corporate legislation, consumer protection, ministries, councils, everything that connects state with economy, would be obsolete. which is obviously extremely far from the truth. take an economics textbook, you're just showcasing extreme ignorance here. true free market system is a myth that never existed in reality.

2. i beg your pardon? are you really serious by this? and how does this compare to above "survival of the fittest" passage? you just keep contradicting yourself.


A wordy way to say, "screw the constitution, mob rule".

And you're wrong.

If you think a company is so bad, then START YOUR OWN! or get together with a group of people and do it!
That's the beauty of it! If people actually cared and weren't so damn lazy/idiotic they'd realize they do have the power to take care of this themselves without government intervention!
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Even with his healthcare plan, all his policies are MUCH better than McCain.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:47 PM   #43
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by wTFaMonkey


socialized medicine is not constituitional. the only things the government should do for the people is in the constitution. IE.police.

so, you think every single thing that government does has to be exactly written and pinpointed in the constitution, or else it's not constitutional?

wow. just wow. wake up. no state in the world works that way. you don't even understand what "not constitutional" means. this also goes for heilige.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:47 PM   #44
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
so all other ways of taxing would be theft too? since state takes taxes to maintain police for good of everyone, that's theft too? how does that fit into your "survival of the fittest" doctrine?
shouldn't we abolish the state altogether then? give everyone weapons, and make everyone settle for himself? since, you know, "you're responsible for you, and no one else"?


I know, I'm a dinosaur because I believe the constittution should be adhered to but oh well. The feds are supposed to be limited to the powers specifically enumerated in that document, a government that doesn't adhere to it's constitution is abhorent as well as illegal. Tell you what, get the people to amend the document, adding the enumerated power to make sure everyone has health insurance and I'll support Obama's plan, until then, no.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
A wordy way to say, "screw the constitution, mob rule".

And you're wrong.

If you think a company is so bad, then START YOUR OWN! or get together with a group of people and do it!
That's the beauty of it! If people actually cared and weren't so damn lazy/idiotic they'd realize they do have the power to take care of this themselves without government intervention!

how does that little frustrated rant adress my post in any way? further evidence that you don't understand a single word of what i wrote. you don't have arguments apart from "you're wrong".

and again, why did whole world's economy crumble in 1929. if free market was that good?
your stances became outdated already somewhere at the end of 19th century.
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