Ever notice how when a terrorist organization achieves one or more of their stated goals, they keep on fighting anyway?
For an individual who thinks for themselves, this indicates that the reasons they gave for fighting were "pretext" i.e. lies to cover an ulterior motive.
Sure, bin Laden wants us out of Saudi Arabia. He hated us long before we were there, and will continue to hate us should we ever leave.
If you think you can give the terrorist what they want and expect them to stop hating you, then you really are hopeless.
Here...enlighten yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb
Stop being intellectually lazy. Stop applying an American mentality to a Middle East mindset.
Naivety and ignorance are people such as yourself who don't know the first thing about middle east history, nitpicking one speech OBL gave and trying to somehow surmise from your tiny knowledge the true motivations of the Islamists.
The Islamist movement far outdates Israel or our involvement in the middle east. Go look up the history of the Muslim Brotherhood...you can start there.
Saudia Arabia is hated because they are considered a secular government by Islamist standards, particularly Salafi standards. They are what Qutbists and the Muslim Brotherhood deem a "near evil." Has nothing to do with the US.
I suppose you are unaware of the massive amounts of foriegn aid we give Arab nations (Egypt is #2), and are comfortable with Paul's 9/11 and other conspiracies.
Or the fact that we went to war to save Muslims from genocide (Kosovo).
Islamists don't care about the billions in dollars we give to them, or the lives of our soldiers we gave to defend them in the Balkans.
Do you understand the concept of Jahiliyya? Do you know who Sayyid Qutb is? You realize that both Bin Laden and Zawahiri are products of the Qutbist mentality. Islamists are not a reactionary force, they have declared, quite publicly, that in order to defeat the far evil, the near evil must first be toppled. The near evil is not Israel either. It is secular arab governments.
Its the Muslim Brotherhood...seriously, stop letting people tell you what to think, and start doing your own research.
People like to believe that 9-11 happened because of something we did. Its an easy answer and an easy fix. In this mentality, America can just change their ways and the Islamists will stop. How cute.
"After every major terrorist incident, the excuse makers come out to tell us...why the terrorists acted. These excuse makers are just one notch less despicable than the terrorists and also deserve to be exposed. When you live in an open society like London, where anyone with a grievance can publish an article, run for office or start a political movement, the notion that blowing up a busload of innocent civilians in response to Iraq is somehow "understandable" is outrageous. "
The Muslim Brotherhood was a movement based after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. The arabs, once noble and proud, searched for reasons as to why the Ottoman Empire had been so soundly defeated in WWI. The answer the Muslim Brotherhood perpetuated was: because teh arab world had strayed from Allah, they moved towards secular governments and forgotten what Muhammad had taught them. THe only way to recapture their glory, they surmised, was to return to the unadulterated, pure Islam (which is every bit as much political as it is religious.)
When you call terrorism a reactionary force, which is what you do when you say 9-11 happened because of our bombing of Iraq, you try and make it "understandable." Worse, you move the focus away from the reality...that the Islamists want to recapture the height of the Islamic Empires.
Netanyahu has stated, and backed up his assertion, that Israel is attacked because it is perceived as Little America, not the other way around.
Now, admittedly, Netanyahu has an agenda, and I don't know if I completely buy that...but one thing is clear and sure:
BEFORE there ever was a state of Israel, Sayyid Qutb was railing against the US as a source of Jahiliyya in the world, and saying that no muslim could be a good muslim with America's decadent and corrupt culture present in the world.
You just don't realize that the Islamists attack us to drive us out so they will have a clear battlefield on which to build the world conquering Caliphate. Yes, our foriegn policy is to support moderate and friendly regimes in the ME, because it's in our own national security interest to do so. We fight the little manageable war now, so we don't have to fight the world encompassing conflagration they envision later. If we return to our pre WWII non-interventionist stance, we will be doing nothing but inviting the next world war. Ron and the Paulettes need to get passed 1939, it's over.
Look, I'm not saying American Foreign Policy has been spectacular over the past 50 years in the ME. In fact, I think our foreign policy has played into the hands of the Islamists, until now. (Iraq has been a complete reverse of our previous foreign policy, and the Islamists are scared as hell.) But regardless, the Islamist movement is NOT a reaction to our foreign policy...only intellectually lazy people make those assertions.
The problem Bush faces is that there are no easy solutions to this problem. Its not really just WWIII. Its a "perfect storm" per se. You have an Islamist movement, the end of the cold war, our failed foreign policy in the region over the past 50 years, an enabling UN, a truly GLOBAL Economy, a globalized world which is much smaller (one in which 19 ticked off youth can get on a plane and be on the other side of the world in a day.), a technological revolution, and a real time world (where something one world leader says can be heard around the world within 5 minutes.)
The battelfield is different because the world is different. And there are no easy answers, and Bush knows this. Look at this thread...so many people just want easy answers, and most are too lazy to snap out of their cocoon to take a look around. Isn't it ironic that in an information age, there are so many ignorant people. How can more people not know about Sayyid Qutb while we're in the midst of an information boom?
We're moving into a different period of civilization. And quite frankly, the isolationist crowd scares me just as much as the peacenik crowd does.
Our FP is what it is because it is in our interest for it to be that way. Supporting Israel was in our interest, so we did. Supporting the Arab regimes in the 80's and early 90's was in our interst so we did. The 8 years of Clinton were a big nothing which neither built on past policy nor lent anything useful to a new one, more or less a time of drift. It attempte to support Moderate Arab regimes and molify terrorist, dumbass didn't realize you can't do both. The result was a growing extremist movement (due to its success with Clinton) at the same time secular Arab regimes were moderating and becoming less militant. bad mix. The Bush policy of introducing and spreading liberty in the ME is the only long term solution with any chance of success in building a lasting peace.
Our FP was in the context of a cold war. (Which people always forget) THe ME was going to be the battleground between us and USSR.
I tend to agree with Friedman on the point, our foreign policy to the arab regimes was "Leave Israel alone and keep the oil flowing, and we'll turn a blind eye as to what you have to do to get that done." Again, context is everything, and we had bigger concerns than Islamists at the time...but that type of foreign policy did get us in trouble.
For the arab street (not the Islamists who have a whole other agenda), they saw their regimes butchering them, and they saw America as supporting their regimes. So it made them prone to the brainwashing by the Islamists.
I believe that you defeat an enemy by destroying its resources. Islamists resources are impoverished, hopeless youth. By going into Iraq, not only do we correct our own wrongs from yesterday, but we can give those youth hope for a better future. And people with hope don't strap bombs onto their chest.
Pulling out of Iraq would be disastrous, and would indeed fuel the fire already raging.
London is interesting. Did you know that's where Islamists from all over the world come to buy and trade Islamist videos and propaganda? Islamists videos and propaganda are not allowed in most ME countries, so the propagandists set up shop in London and use London's freedom of speech to perpetuate the hatred and violence.
In all honesty, London is another incident of what's happening. "the West's Last Chance" by Blankley talks about what's happening in Europe, and Mark Steyn's "America Alone," elaborates. That is where the Clash of Civilizations is being fought. Muslims are immigrating into Europe at unprecedented speed, and are demanding that Europe change who it is to cater to the Islamist ideology.
Yes...again, seriously, look up Muslim Brotherhood, Sayyid Qutb and Jahiliyya...its all there.
You want to find a conspiracy theory, start by asking yourself why these three things are not more widely known in America.