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Old 03-01-2008, 10:30 AM   #16
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
i hope ALL ish-ers read this article
thanks for the thread



these are the key questions from the article:

How could David Stern allow a team that won a championship while he was working

for the league to move? How could he claim to care about the league and let that happen?

How could he allow one of the 30 NBA fan bases to be extorted? How is this OK?

more later

who cares if they won a championship or not

THEYVE BEEN THERE FOR 41 YEARS!!!!

im a die hard nba fan, and this would be a travesty, how can a team be with a city for 40 years and all of a sudden move, its too frustrating i cant even articulate how i feel, just horrible absolutely horrible

i think there should be a nationwide protest, at all nba arenas during the last game of the season
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:20 AM   #17
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

I read his series on the Sonics this week, and I can't believe what's happening to them. Why do the fans need to pay for another arena they don't even need in teh first place?

Bill Davidson built the Palace in '88 with ALL HIS OWN money, and it is still an excellent arena.
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

As a Sonics fan, I wrote a blog post for Jeff articulating how I feel as a long-time fan who isn't from Seattle. You can find it here - http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=585
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
You can't ask these questions on ISH, RBP. These idiots will just respond with, "It's a business", or "David Stern doesn't have the power to stop a move, it's not his job". bleah bleah bleah

These guys don't understand what it's like to spend over a decade of your life following a team, and then having it taken away with nothing you can do about it.

They can't understand that kind of loyalty, or the betrayal that takes place when an owner moves a team.

I've said it before, the NBA can block this move if they really wanted to. The Supersonics are a registered trademark of the NBA, and the players are members of the NBA players association. Without those two things, the owners are the owners of nothing.

Mathius

thanks man. ALL support is appreciated


the questions must be asked-- it doesnt mean i will agree with some responses. besides the local seattle papers, this is the most influential article on the move that has come out


i have really been following the sonics since the 1970-1971 season--- that is 37 years!

unfortunately, the owners just look out for their own self interests and will more than likely vote for the move if it comes to that

i believe mark cuban has publically given his support against a move though
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

first of all, useless crappy article by a horrible sports reporter. He had nothing substantive to say, then presented a bunch of letters from fans.

second, I'm having a little trouble feeling sorry for Seattle. If I understand correctly, the good people of WA voted against new stadium funding...not once but twice. Stadium funding is very commonly a public-private venture. The City/State officials sent two different proposals to a vote. Both were shot down.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
If I understand correctly, the good people of WA voted against new stadium funding...not once but twice. Stadium funding is very commonly a public-private venture. The City/State officials sent two different proposals to a vote. Both were shot down.

You don't understand it correctly. Let my quote myself:

Quote:
Bennet asked for a $500 million arena, 3 miles outside of the city, when KeyArena was built less than 13 years ago, and the city has offered a $200 million renovation deal if it was co-funded.

To put those numbers in perspective, the cost of Seattles 50,000+ seat baseball stadium with a retractable roof was less than $100 million. That Bennet demanded a half billion dollar arena miles from anywhere is beyond rediculous.

It'd be like if the owners of the Lakers demanded that the city of Los Angeles pay for a billion dollar arena in Ventura or they were going to take the team to Boise.
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:18 AM   #22
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
first of all, useless crappy article by a horrible sports reporter. He had nothing substantive to say, then presented a bunch of letters from fans.

second, I'm having a little trouble feeling sorry for Seattle. If I understand correctly, the good people of WA voted against new stadium funding...not once but twice. Stadium funding is very commonly a public-private venture. The City/State officials sent two different proposals to a vote. Both were shot down.


Yeah, a few other facts for you. Seattle has funded with tax payer dollars 2 other state of the art facilities in recent years. enoughs enough. and as beautiful as both the other two stadiums turned out, both state of the art, neither even approached 550 mill.

When the list of demands are closely studied, its very obvious that Clay Bennet designed his proposal in such a way that he KNEW Seattle could do nothing but turn it down. Its been his plan to move the team right from the start. This is not just sports paranoia talking. Someone in his own buyers group let this slip to a media person, actually stated that it has always been there plan all along, and then had to back peddle later when he was blasted behind closed doors for having a big mouth.

There are so many lvls to the unfairness of whats happening that u really cant see it unless u get your nose into it and study whats happening. In a nutshell...

1.) A team with a long standing history in the nba that has always been self sufficient and well suported is being moved for no other good reason than a owners " because i want to." explanation.

2.) The market the owner wants to move the team to is a MUCH smaller market ( statisticly proven. ) So given 1 and 2, how is this a sound descision based on good business?

3.) Even though the city of Seattle has already twice had its arm twisted into funding new stadiums ( 3 times if you count the less than 13 year old 200 million dollar renovation to the Sonics current arena.) Clay Bennet decided that it didnt matterthat his teams arena is still one of the newer buildings in the league. He demanded that not just a new one be built, but an extremely expensive one even by todays pro sport standards. AND he had to have it built in a very specific spot that made no sense to ANYONE but himself. Why? Because it was never his intention to stay in seattle. he wanted the proposal to be shot down.

4.) We have a commish who not only didnt stand up and defend one of the teams in his league when it was being hijacked, he didnt stand up for a 40 year NBA city as it was being CONNED by a new owner who publicly stated that he had NO intention of ever moveing the team, he instead JUMPED ON BOARD with the new ownership and HELPED twist Seattles arm that much harder. Its interesting that we now hear that David Stern has been friends with Clay Bennete for years.

So...we have a NBA city with fans that have always suported there team. A team that has never "struggled" to make it financially in the NBA, that is being moved to a much smaller market by a owner who promised he would never move the team. In a effort to appear to make every effort to keep the team in Seattle he presents the city with a "plan" to keep the team in Seattle. The plan however is revealed to be ludicrous at best. Someone in the new ownership group lets it slip that the plan had ALWAYS been to move the Sonics right from the start. The NBA commissioner plays the part of accomplice and actually AIDS at all turns the efforts of the new ownership to move the team. Move it from a already sucsessfull market.

I know this was very long, but i just wanted to make some kind of effort for the people out there that dont know some of the more ridiculous details of this whole thing.

Pure and simple, Seattle is being ripped off. Its theft and it shoudlnt be allowed.

To the NBA, the moment the Soops leave seattle, the NBA dies to me forever. I wont watch anymore games including playoff basketball, i wont buy NBA merchandise. And I will forever trash the league in any basketball discussion that arises around me. Im quite sure im not the only person that feels this way. David Stern, for every fan the nba gains in OKC, i think you will loose at least that many in seattle. More im sure, were a larger market.
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weez65
2.) The market the owner wants to move the team to is a MUCH smaller market ( statisticly proven. ) So given 1 and 2, how is this a sound descision based on good business?

Ok so we know that in business, things change fast and when the owner said he wouldn't move the team he simply lied or circumstances have change. Blah blah blah whatever, it's not very uncommon in business world.

However, what interest me is #2. What motive could the owner have moving it into smaller market? Is there anything to gain?
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Ok so we know that in business, things change fast and when the owner said he wouldn't move the team he simply lied or circumstances have change. Blah blah blah whatever, it's not very uncommon in business world.

However, what interest me is #2. What motive could the owner have moving it into smaller market? Is there anything to gain?

So he can be a hero in Oklahoma City.

If NBA fans don't stand up for Seattle, one of these days this kind of crap is going to happen in your backyard.
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Ok so we know that in business, things change fast and when the owner said he wouldn't move the team he simply lied or circumstances have change. Blah blah blah whatever, it's not very uncommon in business world.

However, what interest me is #2. What motive could the owner have moving it into smaller market? Is there anything to gain?

What' even more interesting is when you compare the relative requests:

Seattle: 3.2 million people; high attendence (even when doing poorly); sold seelout crowds to KeyArena during away games to watch the game on the JumoTron (that's a real fanbase); $500 million arena 3 miles outside of town.

OKC: 1.6 million people; good attendence during Hornets stay; ~$90 million arena inside town.

Bennet has pretty much said that Seattle has to build him an arena five times more expensive than the one he'd accept from OKC, and refuses to co-fund any of it. He's not even asking for help, he's telling them to fund it all.

My question is why a $500 million arena is the bare minimum in Seattle, but a $90 million arena is more than acceptable in OKC.

If this move goes through Stern needs to be tarred and feathered.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

From what I understand after reading more into this issue, Clay Bennett's motive for wanting to move the team to Oklahoma is because he is born and raised there and always want to bring the NBA to Oklahoma. There is no financial motive at all as far as I read. In fact, he seems to lose quite a bit of money if he move the team there.

Seattle however, being a good market and all, shouldn't be without an NBA team for too long, with the most likely candidate being Chris Paul & CO. Although Stern did say that if the Sonics move out then Seattle can't have another team moving in. There's a reason for this but I'll have to read more into it.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:13 AM   #27
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
From what I understand after reading more into this issue, Clay Bennett's motive for wanting to move the team to Oklahoma is because he is born and raised there and always want to bring the NBA to Oklahoma. There is no financial motive at all as far as I read. In fact, he seems to lose quite a bit of money if he move the team there.

Seattle however, being a good market and all, shouldn't be without an NBA team for too long, with the most likely candidate being Chris Paul & CO. Although Stern did say that if the Sonics move out then Seattle can't have another team moving in. There's a reason for this but I'll have to read more into it.

do you realize that the Hornets have been selling out games (or close to it) left and right for almost 2 months? Their attendence problems were just for November and early December. They've been making a killing since then in ticket sales. Great crowd, state of the art arena (ranked the 4th best arena in the NBA)

Hornets won't be moving. They're 49% owned by New Orleans businessmen and George Shinn (Mr. 51%) is planning on selling them more when he retires just so the team can stay in New Orleans.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

The whole situation just pisses me off.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

Bump. Please dont let this thread die. Weather people recognize it or not, this story is probably the most important story in the NBA right now. It goes beyond effecting Seattle. EVERY small to mid-market teams should be very worried.

Does your team fan base support their team even during the lean and rebuilding years?

Is you local government more than willing to work with ownership to help keep the team at the top of the list as far as team facilities and extra income goes?

Does your team have a LONG history with the NBA including a championship?

Seattle gets a check mark in all three of those catagories. Yet, it hasnt mattered. Despite the positive check marks ownership apears to have zero interest in staying, to the point of accepting offers from OKC that is less than half of what seattle offered.

Its not bull guys, if it can happen in Seattle, it can happen to you to.

Please keep this thread alive.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:40 AM   #30
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Default Re: Save The Sonics

From a story on ESPN tonight...

"The Sonics are in Seattle, and the Sonics can stay in Seattle. That's in the hands of Seattle," Williams said. "Seattle can still keep their team if they're willing to do what it takes to pay for it.

"It's not ours to win. It's Seattle's to lose."


This sums up the steam rolling that seattle is receiving. We can keep the Sonics if only were willing to step up and do our part.

OKC just voted and approved the moneys for a 121 million improvement to their arena. But to "step up" and do what we should to keep the Sonics were asked to pay 550 million and have the arena built outside of town? Its very interesting that OKC's 121 million is just fine. But seattle's already offered 250 million is just not NEARLY enough to interest Cash-us Clay.

I wonder if OKC would have passed a vote for 550 million. considering the margin of victory, i seriously doubt it.

Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Sad. Underhanded. deceitful. Shameful.

Shame on you Clay bennet. But even more so, SHAME ON YOU DAVID STERN. Your the biggest shyster of all. Bennets a common crook. But your supposed to be thinking of the league and whats best for it. An NBA team in OKC is better for the league than the larger market its spent the past 41 years in? laughable. Shame on you David Stern.

I think weve lost our team already. BUT what really makes me angry is people like that guy from OKC trying to make it sound like if we loose the team then its our own fault. nothing could be further from the truth and I AT LEAST want the world to know that Seattle is not at fault here. That Seattle is a wonderful sports city that dearly loves its teams.

Its not like we havent been down this road before. Outside ownership has tried to take both the mariners and seahawks away from us. The city and people of this area responded in force and we saved two teams that were on the brink of leaving. now both those teams are solid gold here and will probably never leave.

And lets not forget that we have the mariners because one of our states politicians SUED when the old seattle pilots were moved out without warning and became the milwaukee Brewers. So thats 3 times we HAVE done the right thing and saved our teams.

We want nothing more than to do the same thing in this case. but were talking to a wall. A lying crooked cheating wall that has had an agenda right from the start.

Clay Bennet and Daniel Stern, Im buying the lakers and relocating them to Olympia washington. Then i was thinking about buying the Red Sox and moving them to Eugene Or.

Why not? its just a little history were destroying. and after i do that, and someday die, ill have my lunches in Hell, right along side Clay and David. ( In a little cafe ran by Art Modell and Robert Irsay. )

Last edited by Weez65 : 03-05-2008 at 04:42 AM.
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