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Old 03-04-2008, 05:44 PM   #16
Fedor - Laker
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
I understand Memphis' desire to drop salary. But if they had waited until the summer they could've gotten a better deal.

If I were Memphis I would've demanded a 3rd team getting involved. If nothing materializes you bide your time like Minny did with KG... and a better deal surfaces.

Chicago had pieces like Noah, Nocioni, and expiring PJ Brown. Instead Memphis went for a 3rd young PG in Javaris.

This was not a basketball trade. This was political. Salary was an issue but they could have gotten expirers with better young guys/draft picks from a number of other teams.

I think the point gts was trying to make is that the owner of the Grizzlies is trying to sell the team. Think of it like selling a suped up car or taking everything off the car and just selling it stock.

Basically it just gives the new possible buyer a less of a headache in purchasing and rebuilding the team.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
I understand Memphis' desire to drop salary. But if they had waited until the summer they could've gotten a better deal.

If I were Memphis I would've demanded a 3rd team getting involved. If nothing materializes you bide your time like Minny did with KG... and a better deal surfaces.

Chicago had pieces like Noah, Nocioni, and expiring PJ Brown. Instead Memphis went for a 3rd young PG in Javaris.

This was not a basketball trade. This was political. Salary was an issue but they could have gotten expirers with better young guys/draft picks from a number of other teams.

memphis was scared to wait until the trade deadline, let alone the summer...they wanted kwame's contract badly and feared that lakers would trade kwame elsewhere (rumors were that he was heading to chitown). there was an interview with their owner, he explained that the main objective was to get cap money, youth, picks...well it just so happens that kwame's contract was the largest expiring contract in the league...perfect for what the grizz were looking for. take on kwame for a few month and clear up ~10 mil in cap room. they also got a young promising talented guard in Javaris and 2 first round picks.

and the grizz owner talked about the chicago deal...said they were offering things they are not looking for, like ben wallace and were hesitant on most of the deals memphis put up for them.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

There is a lot going on that isn't being acknowledged by most of the media. What I am about to write is my opinion of what is going on behind closed doors....

1. Memphis is trying to sell the team and as GTS pointed out the #1 priority is to cut payroll and get as many prospects/draft picks as possible. It seems ownership can't/doesn't want to wait for the offseason to make the franchise more sell-able, therefor they had a hard on for Kwame's expiring contract.

2. Memphis was trying to force any suitor to take Cardinal's contract with Gasol and that would mean major lux tax for the receiving team which killed most deals. Also as GTS pointed out 19.6 mil going out means at least 14.7 mil has to come back to MEM due to the CBA. It's nearly impossible to put the right package together of talent with the right salaries.

3. There wasn't much pressure for MEM to do a deal until good ol' Sam Smith in Chicago started writing about how Kwames contract was about to get shipped to CHI in a Ben Wallace deal, then the pressure was on MEM to get serious.

4. So now Memphis had to make up it's mind what they wanted. They wanted young talent (J-Critt/Marc Gasol), Draft picks (2 #1's), and cap relief (Kwame and Mckie giving them about 11 mil in cap relief for next season.) Later I'll show you why it was one of the best offers they were going to get.

5. This deal didn't happen overnight, Kupchak himself acknowledged that they've had talks about Gasol for over a year and they didn't heat up until a month or so before the deal went down.

So why was this the best deal....
Lets keep in mind they wanted 3 things 1. Cap relief. 2. #1 draft picks. 3. Young talent.

1. Lets start with draft picks. One priority with the picks was that a #1 would be available NEXT season, which mean just about every lotto bound team would not do. Most teams top 10 and/or lotto protect their picks. Or top 10 protected the first year, then lotto protected the next. So it could very well work out that MEM doesn't see a #1 round pick for 3 more years dealing with a lotto bound team.

2. Cap relief. How many teams had large expirers? CHI (Nocioni), DAL (Van Horn), MIA (J-Will), LAL (Kwame), Min (Ratliff), and WAS (Jamison)

3. Young talent. taking in consideration points 1 & 2 your left with CHI, DAL, MIA, LAL, MIN to deal with. CHI, MIN, and MIA are all bad fits due to the fact those teams won't give up a unconditional #1 for next season. That leaves LAL and DAL to get a deal done to achieve all three objectives.

4. Last but certainly not least, the team that gets Gasol is going to have to be willing to pay a big lux tax hit for a few years due to Gasols contract.

So now you tell me how to construct a better deal to achieve those three objectives.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

The other offer I know of was from the Bulls, who offered Ben's terrible multi-year contract.

Name one "reported" deal that did not involve a bad multi-year contract.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
Its pretty evident that the lakers, especially when Bynum returns, are going to be perennial challengers for the title over the next 5 years or so.

How do you feel getting handed Pau Gasol? Do you really think it was just a matter of Memphis wanting to cut salary? If so, why didn't they demand more than just Javaris and draft picks?

Do you think LA being a top NBA market had anything to do with the willingness of Memphis to help LA out so much?

There HAD to be politics involved in this trade. Teams don't just go out handing their star players to contenders in the same conference.

Whats your take, LA fandom?
Other than whatever the Grizz owner said, what onion theory do you want to hear? That he got a 14 Championship blow J from Jeanie Buss?
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers4ever
Is this thread supposed to mean anything? One player does not make a team. Gasol is just one small piece of the puzzle. He isn't really that impressive of a big man bulkwise. He gets pushed out of there constantly and overpowered by bigger, stronger power forwards and centers. So why does anyone think that just that trade made the Lakers a perennial top team for years to come? They would have been that way even without Gasol. They have been building this team slowly but surely over the past few years. Memphis had to dump some salary and Kwame's expiring contract was perfect for a trade whereas no one else had anything they wanted.

Im gonna give you a break. Either you are a new fan to basketball or are young and stubborn. Yes I agree pau is not "bulky". But what pau lacks in size he makes up for it with skill, versatility, speed, great hands and feet, good passing, good help side defense, and unselfishness. Pau does make them a contender. They were around fourth best with bynum. No one thought they would win this year. With pau they are obviously the best. They will also be the best for years because pau is only 27 anjd in his prime. Bynum is like 22 and kobe 29. Not to mention the bench.Which is young and talented. The lakers were a good team. With pau they become one of the top two teams in the league. Pau is that good.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsizzle
well it just so happens that kwame's contract was the largest expiring contract in the league...

atawn jamison's was probably the biggest
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexthegod
There is a lot going on that isn't being acknowledged by most of the media. What I am about to write is my opinion of what is going on behind closed doors....

1. Memphis is trying to sell the team and as GTS pointed out the #1 priority is to cut payroll and get as many prospects/draft picks as possible. It seems ownership can't/doesn't want to wait for the offseason to make the franchise more sell-able, therefor they had a hard on for Kwame's expiring contract.

2. Memphis was trying to force any suitor to take Cardinal's contract with Gasol and that would mean major lux tax for the receiving team which killed most deals. Also as GTS pointed out 19.6 mil going out means at least 14.7 mil has to come back to MEM due to the CBA. It's nearly impossible to put the right package together of talent with the right salaries.

3. There wasn't much pressure for MEM to do a deal until good ol' Sam Smith in Chicago started writing about how Kwames contract was about to get shipped to CHI in a Ben Wallace deal, then the pressure was on MEM to get serious.

4. So now Memphis had to make up it's mind what they wanted. They wanted young talent (J-Critt/Marc Gasol), Draft picks (2 #1's), and cap relief (Kwame and Mckie giving them about 11 mil in cap relief for next season.) Later I'll show you why it was one of the best offers they were going to get.

5. This deal didn't happen overnight, Kupchak himself acknowledged that they've had talks about Gasol for over a year and they didn't heat up until a month or so before the deal went down.

So why was this the best deal....
Lets keep in mind they wanted 3 things 1. Cap relief. 2. #1 draft picks. 3. Young talent.

1. Lets start with draft picks. One priority with the picks was that a #1 would be available NEXT season, which mean just about every lotto bound team would not do. Most teams top 10 and/or lotto protect their picks. Or top 10 protected the first year, then lotto protected the next. So it could very well work out that MEM doesn't see a #1 round pick for 3 more years dealing with a lotto bound team.

2. Cap relief. How many teams had large expirers? CHI (Nocioni), DAL (Van Horn), MIA (J-Will), LAL (Kwame), Min (Ratliff), and WAS (Jamison)

3. Young talent. taking in consideration points 1 & 2 your left with CHI, DAL, MIA, LAL, MIN to deal with. CHI, MIN, and MIA are all bad fits due to the fact those teams won't give up a unconditional #1 for next season. That leaves LAL and DAL to get a deal done to achieve all three objectives.

4. Last but certainly not least, the team that gets Gasol is going to have to be willing to pay a big lux tax hit for a few years due to Gasols contract.

So now you tell me how to construct a better deal to achieve those three objectives.
This pretty much sums it up. Good breakdown.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
atawn jamison's was probably the biggest
jamisons contract was 3.5 million dollars bigger than paus... why would a tteam trying to cut costs take on a larger salary for even a few months when the object is to save money?
of course you know that since we already discussed it in the main NBA forum...
dude i realize your really upset that the lakers are in a winning mode..
but get over it...
the lakers got pau gasol...
they met exactly the needs of the grizzlies..
it took them nearly a year to put this trade in place..
everybody and their mother knew pau was available since last summer and had plenty of time to make a move, nobody did.. their loss and the lakers HUGE GAIN
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:22 AM   #26
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
atawn jamison's was probably the biggest

Jamison wasn't just an expiring contract he is an important player for Washington. Even if the Wizards will willing to part with him, do they have young talent to add? no. would they give up an unprotected pick in 08-09? most likey not. Are they willing to commit themselves to a big lux tax hit? Who knows.

Then there is the Gilbert Arenas issue. If they get Pau and they max out Arenas, that will guarantee huge lux tax for the next several seasons. If Agent Zero walks, is it worth it to swap Jamison for Pau and still be capped out?

The deal just doesnt work for Washington or Memphis.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Jamison wasn't just an expiring contract
yeah he is
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:41 AM   #28
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Yo gts and alexthegod....great posts man!!!

Same goes to everyone else. Learned a whole lot from them!!!

And final.wrath....just like everyone else has been saying...we got Gasol just learn to live with the fact.

Go Lakes!!!!
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:37 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

final.wrath...you will be assimilated to the Lakers nation. Resistance is futile.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why were the Lakers handed a championship team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jailer
Im gonna give you a break. Either you are a new fan to basketball or are young and stubborn. Yes I agree pau is not "bulky". But what pau lacks in size he makes up for it with skill, versatility, speed, great hands and feet, good passing, good help side defense, and unselfishness. Pau does make them a contender. They were around fourth best with bynum. No one thought they would win this year. With pau they are obviously the best. They will also be the best for years because pau is only 27 anjd in his prime. Bynum is like 22 and kobe 29. Not to mention the bench.Which is young and talented. The lakers were a good team. With pau they become one of the top two teams in the league. Pau is that good.

I recognize how great a player Gasol is. He is AWESOME around the hoop the way he catches the ball and puts it right in the hoop in one smooth motion. He is perfect for the triangle. Once he gets to play PF with Bynum at center, I think this team is going to be unstoppable. I just don't like the fact that people are complaining that the Lakers were handed a Championship team with one player. We lost a very promising young player in Crittenton and some number one draft picks. He wasn't FREE by any means. Pau is great but he is still only one player on a very talented team. People were not saying this crap when Boston got the three amigos or Kidd went to Dallas. They just like to pick on the Lakers. BTW, I have probably been watching basketball longer than most people on these boards since I have been a Laker fan since about 1968. Therefor Jerry West, my favorite all time player ever, is my avatar.
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