Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Cleveland Cavaliers Forum

Cleveland Cavaliers Forum Cleveland cavaliers message board - cleveland cavaliers fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2008, 01:40 PM   #1156
ChrisConley
Local High School Star
 
ChrisConley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,202
ChrisConley has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by WEEKEND DIME

Paul has to win this thing if the Hornets finish with the best overall record in the West.

Has to.


Yet they put Kobe at No. 1? Give Kobe credit for wins in Utah and Dallas, but ignore losses in Charlotte and Memphis?
ChrisConley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 01:48 PM   #1157
bleedinpurpleTwo
Another Laker Dynasty?
 
bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 11,928
bleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

I get the sense that the voters take the totality of the season into consideration...not just the final weeks.
bleedinpurpleTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 01:48 PM   #1158
kgisbigticket
Banned
 
kgisbigticket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,088
kgisbigticket has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts

Does Dirk or any of these analysts know that Kobe shoots a worse fg% than his team?

I didn't think so.
kgisbigticket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 02:15 PM   #1159
KenneBell
What set you claim?
 
KenneBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the green like a crouton.
Posts: 5,755
KenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
I get the sense that the voters take the totality of the season into consideration...not just the final weeks.
I thought that's what MVP is supposed to be about. Play over the entire season.
KenneBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 02:15 PM   #1160
KenneBell
What set you claim?
 
KenneBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the green like a crouton.
Posts: 5,755
KenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation hereKenneBell has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgisbigticket
Does Dirk or any of these analysts know that Kobe shoots a worse fg% than his team?

I didn't think so.
Do they care?

I doubt it.
KenneBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 02:31 PM   #1161
bleedinpurpleTwo
Another Laker Dynasty?
 
bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 11,928
bleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgisbigticket
Does Dirk or any of these analysts know that Kobe shoots a worse fg% than his team?

I didn't think so.

did YOU know that Kobe is tied for the highest fg% amongst perimeter players? and that the only guys with higher fg% are the bigs... as they SHOULD be (esp since Kobe hand-feeds them layups).

I didn't think so. class dismissed.
bleedinpurpleTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 02:58 PM   #1162
bleedinpurpleTwo
Another Laker Dynasty?
 
bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 11,928
bleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

fwiw, a brief comparison of teammate health:

CP3 70 (out of 72 games played)
West 66
Peja 67
Chandler 69
MoPete 66


Kobe 74 (out of 74)
Gasol 19
Bynum 35
Odom 69
Fisher 74
bleedinpurpleTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 03:54 PM   #1163
~LA's finest~
I hit open 5-footers
 
~LA's finest~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Born N' Raised; Anaheim Hills
Posts: 165
~LA's finest~ has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Kobe will lose either way in the minds of certain fans, if the voters vote for him...a lot of the posters here will put an asterisk beside his name, claiming Paul should have won it etc. Although I would really like to know three things.

A) How exactly has Paul played better then Kobe this season?
B) Where would New Orleans be in the standings if they missed West & Chandler for the same duration of time as LA lost Gasol & Bynum.
C) Would Paul get the surgery on his pinky or sacrifice his body for the good of the team?

On the other hand, there are just as many if not more reasons for Paul to receive the award, however since Kobe is a household name in the NBA...unless something dramatic happens, like he gets suspended, finishes the year off on a bad note or his team struggles...he will more then likely receive the award regardless if NO's finished 1 or 2 games ahead of LA.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two teams success, when one has been hit with so many more injuries then the other. Although West missed a few games as well.

With West: 46-20
Without West: 4-2

I mean their starters missed a total of 20 games this season, Laker's starters missed a total of 54 games. (Pau missed 10 games for us, Bynum 39, Odom 5) That's nearly triple the amount of games our starters missed in cmparison to NO's, and yet we're still only 1 game behind them...not to mention our star is playing through an injury.

We're 5-5 without Pau and Bynum in the lineup, so our interior presence is non-existent, unless you consider Turiaf a real big man at 6'10.

During that time we beat teams like Dallas, Utah and Golden State (all on the road, against arguably the three toughest home teams in the league out west)...we had some disappointing losses, but we as Laker fans have come accustomed to those losses even at full strenght. I mean, people need to read between the lines sometimes.

The race is a lot closer then some people like to think between Kobe and Paul, Paul however had a lot more good fortune in terms of his team staying healthy. I could easily see us having close to 56 wins right now if Pau & Bynum missed as many game as Chandler & West, respectively.

Judging each teams respective records as the main determination on who deserves the MVP award is quite silly, it really shouldn't even be one of the decisive factors if you come to think of it.

This post is dedicated to all the people that claim "whoever finishes higher in the standings will win this award.

Last edited by ~LA's finest~ : 04-01-2008 at 04:01 PM.
~LA's finest~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 04:20 PM   #1164
ChrisConley
Local High School Star
 
ChrisConley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,202
ChrisConley has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
fwiw, a brief comparison of teammate health:

CP3 70 (out of 72 games played)
West 66
Peja 67
Chandler 69
MoPete 66


Kobe 74 (out of 74)
Gasol 19
Bynum 35
Odom 69
Fisher 74

I think Bucher's "teammate help" argument is a really good argument. In fact it even persuaded me to be undecided and to be content as long as either Kobe or Paul wins it (whereas before, I believed that Paul had the slight edge and that Kobe could only win it ala Malone).

When the Lakers have played without both Gasol and Bynum (arguably their no.2 and no.3 players even though I have Lamar slightly > Bynum), they went 11-10 by my count. That leaves them at 0.524 without their two big men and 0.736 with at least one of them (and in fact they have yet to play in the same game). I'm going to assume Chandler and West are comparable to Gasol and Bynum (and I think most would consider them better). The Hornets are 0.694 right now and to my knowledge have never been without their no.2 and no.3 at the same time. To me this says that if Kobe had the supporting cast that Paul did (i.e. a healthy no.2 and no.3 at the same time for most of the season), they'd easily have a better record than the Hornets and thus a solid hold on the top of the Western conference. Therefore Kobe is easily as deserving of MVP. Of course most of this is speculation, but I think pretty well justified. However, I hate to penalize Paul for having healthy teammates. So I leave it as a toss up.
ChrisConley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 05:49 PM   #1165
bleedinpurpleTwo
Another Laker Dynasty?
 
bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 11,928
bleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

I wonder if the voters, in general, take teammate health into consideration. Somehow I think it is not high on their list for assessment.
bleedinpurpleTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 08:34 PM   #1166
bleedinpurpleTwo
Another Laker Dynasty?
 
bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 11,928
bleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbleedinpurpleTwo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

CP3 can now join Lebron and Kobe with his recent mediocre play.
6 for 19
missed BOTH clutch free throws in the final seconds.

at least they won the game.
bleedinpurpleTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 09:24 PM   #1167
Kobe24
Banned
 
Kobe24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Land of 14 NBA Championships
Posts: 6,188
Kobe24 is considered somewhat coolKobe24 is considered somewhat coolKobe24 is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

I have a feeling voters are gonna pay A LOT of attention to LA vs NOH April 11th.
Kobe24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 09:40 PM   #1168
mjbulls23
6 World Championships
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,729
mjbulls23 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
I have a feeling voters are gonna pay A LOT of attention to LA vs NOH April 11th.

+1
mjbulls23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 10:34 PM   #1169
Noob Saibot
NBA lottery pick
 
Noob Saibot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherrealm
Posts: 5,229
Noob Saibot is a pretty well-respected posterNoob Saibot is a pretty well-respected posterNoob Saibot is a pretty well-respected posterNoob Saibot is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
A) How exactly has Paul played better then Kobe this season?

tough question here. Paul isn't vocal or bossy like Kobe is, but he can make all of his teammates better with his passing alone. so Paul is a better leader by example, at least to me.

Quote:
B) Where would New Orleans be in the standings if they missed West & Chandler for the same duration of time as LA lost Gasol & Bynum.

lower than the #1 seed for sure. maybe in the 5th spot.


Quote:
C) Would Paul get the surgery on his pinky or sacrifice his body for the good of the team?

if the Hornets sucked. Paul would take surgery. but i think we would sacrifice it if New Orleans is playoff bound.
Noob Saibot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:24 PM   #1170
luigi>mario
Now known as Luigi
 
luigi>mario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,898
luigi>mario has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
CP3 can now join Lebron and Kobe with his recent mediocre play.
6 for 19
missed BOTH clutch free throws in the final seconds.

at least they won the game.

I was wondering what effect this would have.

I have concluded that this year there is no stand out for MVP.
Especialy with the West so close, this regular season award won't be as meaninful as it should.

I am most interested in making an ISH playoff hero award.
luigi>mario is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:04 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy