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  1. #1156
    Another Laker Dynasty? bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    fwiw, a brief comparison of teammate health:

    CP3 70 (out of 72 games played)
    West 66
    Peja 67
    Chandler 69
    MoPete 66


    Kobe 74 (out of 74)
    Gasol 19
    Bynum 35
    Odom 69
    Fisher 74

  2. #1157
    Not airballing my layups anymore ~LA's finest~'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Kobe will lose either way in the minds of certain fans, if the voters vote for him...a lot of the posters here will put an asterisk beside his name, claiming Paul should have won it etc. Although I would really like to know three things.

    A) How exactly has Paul played better then Kobe this season?
    B) Where would New Orleans be in the standings if they missed West & Chandler for the same duration of time as LA lost Gasol & Bynum.
    C) Would Paul get the surgery on his pinky or sacrifice his body for the good of the team?

    On the other hand, there are just as many if not more reasons for Paul to receive the award, however since Kobe is a household name in the NBA...unless something dramatic happens, like he gets suspended, finishes the year off on a bad note or his team struggles...he will more then likely receive the award regardless if NO's finished 1 or 2 games ahead of LA.

    I don't think it's fair to compare the two teams success, when one has been hit with so many more injuries then the other. Although West missed a few games as well.

    With West: 46-20
    Without West: 4-2

    I mean their starters missed a total of 20 games this season, Laker's starters missed a total of 54 games. (Pau missed 10 games for us, Bynum 39, Odom 5) That's nearly triple the amount of games our starters missed in cmparison to NO's, and yet we're still only 1 game behind them...not to mention our star is playing through an injury.

    We're 5-5 without Pau and Bynum in the lineup, so our interior presence is non-existent, unless you consider Turiaf a real big man at 6'10.

    During that time we beat teams like Dallas, Utah and Golden State (all on the road, against arguably the three toughest home teams in the league out west)...we had some disappointing losses, but we as Laker fans have come accustomed to those losses even at full strenght. I mean, people need to read between the lines sometimes.

    The race is a lot closer then some people like to think between Kobe and Paul, Paul however had a lot more good fortune in terms of his team staying healthy. I could easily see us having close to 56 wins right now if Pau & Bynum missed as many game as Chandler & West, respectively.

    Judging each teams respective records as the main determination on who deserves the MVP award is quite silly, it really shouldn't even be one of the decisive factors if you come to think of it.

    This post is dedicated to all the people that claim "whoever finishes higher in the standings will win this award.
    Last edited by ~LA's finest~; 04-01-2008 at 05:01 PM.

  3. #1158
    Local High School Star ChrisConley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
    fwiw, a brief comparison of teammate health:

    CP3 70 (out of 72 games played)
    West 66
    Peja 67
    Chandler 69
    MoPete 66


    Kobe 74 (out of 74)
    Gasol 19
    Bynum 35
    Odom 69
    Fisher 74
    I think Bucher's "teammate help" argument is a really good argument. In fact it even persuaded me to be undecided and to be content as long as either Kobe or Paul wins it (whereas before, I believed that Paul had the slight edge and that Kobe could only win it ala Malone).

    When the Lakers have played without both Gasol and Bynum (arguably their no.2 and no.3 players even though I have Lamar slightly > Bynum), they went 11-10 by my count. That leaves them at 0.524 without their two big men and 0.736 with at least one of them (and in fact they have yet to play in the same game). I'm going to assume Chandler and West are comparable to Gasol and Bynum (and I think most would consider them better). The Hornets are 0.694 right now and to my knowledge have never been without their no.2 and no.3 at the same time. To me this says that if Kobe had the supporting cast that Paul did (i.e. a healthy no.2 and no.3 at the same time for most of the season), they'd easily have a better record than the Hornets and thus a solid hold on the top of the Western conference. Therefore Kobe is easily as deserving of MVP. Of course most of this is speculation, but I think pretty well justified. However, I hate to penalize Paul for having healthy teammates. So I leave it as a toss up.

  4. #1159
    Another Laker Dynasty? bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    I wonder if the voters, in general, take teammate health into consideration. Somehow I think it is not high on their list for assessment.

  5. #1160
    Another Laker Dynasty? bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    CP3 can now join Lebron and Kobe with his recent mediocre play.
    6 for 19
    missed BOTH clutch free throws in the final seconds.

    at least they won the game.

  6. #1161
    Intelligent fan
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    I have a feeling voters are gonna pay A LOT of attention to LA vs NOH April 11th.

  7. #1162
    National High School Star
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe24
    I have a feeling voters are gonna pay A LOT of attention to LA vs NOH April 11th.
    +1

  8. #1163
    Good college starter Noob Saibot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    A) How exactly has Paul played better then Kobe this season?
    tough question here. Paul isn't vocal or bossy like Kobe is, but he can make all of his teammates better with his passing alone. so Paul is a better leader by example, at least to me.

    B) Where would New Orleans be in the standings if they missed West & Chandler for the same duration of time as LA lost Gasol & Bynum.
    lower than the #1 seed for sure. maybe in the 5th spot.


    C) Would Paul get the surgery on his pinky or sacrifice his body for the good of the team?
    if the Hornets sucked. Paul would take surgery. but i think we would sacrifice it if New Orleans is playoff bound.

  9. #1164
    Now known as Luigi luigi>mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
    CP3 can now join Lebron and Kobe with his recent mediocre play.
    6 for 19
    missed BOTH clutch free throws in the final seconds.

    at least they won the game.
    I was wondering what effect this would have.

    I have concluded that this year there is no stand out for MVP.
    Especialy with the West so close, this regular season award won't be as meaninful as it should.

    I am most interested in making an ISH playoff hero award.

  10. #1165
    College star
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Lebron has carried his team more than Kobe. Just look at the team the cavs had before the trade and even after the trade...its a crappy team......

    LeBron>Kobe.

    I started believing it in last year's playoffs......

  11. #1166
    What set you claim? KenneBell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    I don't know why people are so concentrated on recent performances. One or two games does not throw off your rankings in this race. You can't say "Player A had a bad game tonight but Player B had a good game, therefore Player B is front".

    It doesn't work like that. The voters are going to take your whole body of work into account.

  12. #1167
    Another Laker Dynasty? bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by bada bing
    Lebron has carried his team more than Kobe. Just look at the team the cavs had before the trade and even after the trade...its a crappy team......

    LeBron>Kobe.

    I started believing it in last year's playoffs......
    really?
    He has carried his team to 42 victories thus far...good for 4th place in the weaker eastern conference.
    Kobe is at 50 wins in the tougher western conference...good for 3rd place...for the most part without Bynum, without Gasol, without Ariza, without Mihm.
    So, 50 wins with Odom and Fisher. Hard to say ANYONE has carried his team more than Kobe.

  13. #1168
    The Paterfamilias RedBlackAttack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
    really?
    He has carried his team to 42 victories thus far...good for 4th place in the weaker eastern conference.
    Kobe is at 50 wins in the tougher western conference...good for 3rd place...for the most part without Bynum, without Gasol, without Ariza, without Mihm.
    So, 50 wins with Odom and Fisher. Hard to say ANYONE has carried his team more than Kobe.
    Let's be fair...

    The Lakers DO NOT have a stellar record in games played without either Bynum or Gasol. Also, the Cavs have been as injury ravaged this season as any team I can remember. There have been only a handful of games this season in which everyone was healthy. They have been missing key pieces all year long... before and after the trade.

    Also, about the East-West thing... I believe BOTH the Cavs and Lakers have better winning percentages against the West than they do against the East.

    Just sayin'...

  14. #1169
    Serious playground baller
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    ill refrain from giving my opinion since my posts contain zero objectivity........

  15. #1170
    Another Laker Dynasty? bleedinpurpleTwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
    Let's be fair...

    The Lakers DO NOT have a stellar record in games played without either Bynum or Gasol. Also, the Cavs have been as injury ravaged this season as any team I can remember. There have been only a handful of games this season in which everyone was healthy. They have been missing key pieces all year long... before and after the trade.

    Also, about the East-West thing... I believe BOTH the Cavs and Lakers have better winning percentages against the West than they do against the East.

    Just sayin'...
    I hear ya. but the Lakers have a winning record without Bynum and without Gasol.
    OK, so the Cavs have had injuries too.

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