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Old 06-28-2008, 05:40 PM   #76
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

If we are saying the world is catching up I can agree with that.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:43 PM   #77
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

About Schmid, we will never know what he Would have done in the NBA, but we know he Could have done, and that is be a really good player. Kobe gets ripped not only for being a selfish scorer, but also for his cockiness, his inability to win a thing without Shaq, except for MVP this season, which is basically worthless now, because a team won the championship, not Kobe, his mentality, which is me-first, team-second, and his rape trial, which was going to negatively change his reputation whatever way it ended. I know his life is under the microscope, but I don't think Oscar Schmidt would be anything like Kobe, except for making shots.
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Old 06-28-2008, 06:21 PM   #78
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:05 PM   #79
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.
First of all Schmidt was no ameteur!He was a professional player.He got paid very well in italy ,when the italian league was the best in europe.Yes he took a lot of shots but his percentages were higher than kobe's.Kobe shot as much as shaq?of coz,only shaq was two feet away from the basket most times dunking it,kobe was forcing a shot from 30ft!Kobe had 1 assist in his last nba finals game!! and endless misses and turnovers.he has teammates like odom,gasol,fisher etc who can score yet he takes 30 shots and berates his teammates for missing a shot!the guy is a **** I am sorry to say so but he is.Other players are confident and even cocky and you kind of accept it,but this guy is a prick and will never ever be considered in the same light as jordan,bird,magic etc etc
P.s. the euroleague didn't even exist when Petrovic played in europe.I know what you mean though.and yes Petrovic was the best player ever to come out of europe and a crying shame he departed this world in his prime when he was starting to set things alight in the NBA,after having been wasted by Portland(Rudy what have you done?)Perhaps Sabonis is on a par with petrovic as greatest ever,he went to the nba with his feet riddled with injury at age 31 yet triumphed and played 6 or 7 seasons with,,mm that same team.

Last edited by la bomba : 06-28-2008 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:20 PM   #80
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Kobe's the best player in the world right now. It shouldn't even be a debate. Anybody who thinks less doesn't understand the game of basketball or is just one of those people who are jealous and likes to hate people that are great at what they do. People hated Jordan and now love him. People hate the Yankees in baseball, they now hate the Patriots in football, etc. I respect someone who is the best, even if they aren't on my team.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:40 AM   #81
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Changing the topic for now, what happens to Dwight Howard? Is he really injured? I read something about stress fracture? Will he miss the Olympics?
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Old 06-29-2008, 05:20 AM   #82
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

I was going to make the same reply. I just saw this tonight.

I really don't have any answers at this point. All I know is the one legit center team USA had isn't going to be 100%. I made comments about him getting into foul trouble earlier but I never imagined this. Team USA has Bosh right now who could play a little center, but other than that their next biggest guy is Boozer who is only 6'9".

I guess this is the tough part about the Olympics for the USA. There is so much pressure for teams to win an NBA championship, the guys don't want to go out and win a gold medal for their country. This is the one thing we haven't discussed yet but is probably the one biggest issue in the US compared to Europe. Europeans want to win the gold not matter what. To them that is the greatest achievement. In America the greatest achievement is winning an NBA title. So some of our best player opt out and decide not to play. I wish they would have a little patriotism and just play. If we had other big guys this wouldn't even be an issue. I realize that this isn't just Americans. I know that there are international players whose teams don't want them to play in the Olympics for fear of their health. Nonetheless it hurts us more than anybody. It's only a player for most teams while it's 3 to 5 for us.

Personally, I love the Olympics, and not just basketball. This is the one time of the year I will watch all sports like track & field, diving, rowing, etc. Since basketball is one of my passions I would love for the US to be able to put out their best players to represent their country. Unfortunately, I don't know if it can happen again. This doesn't mean they won't be competitive. It just means there will never be another dream team. You guys know I am the one american who has kept this thread going, so you know I am passionate about the Olympics and how team USA fares. I wish we could get that enthusiasm spread across the US. For a lack of a better term, no matter who has the correct opinion, you can see that a gold medal means more to Europe than it does the US just based on the discussion in this thread.

In all fairness, if I could have my team win a championship instead of a gold medal I would. But the margin is slim. It's 51% to 49%. Personally, I don't like to set my goals to just attaining one thing. That would be too low for me. I would set my goals to win an NBA championship and a gold medal. Why limit ourselves with goals, right? I guess the rest of the US doesn't feel that way. I'll try to keep the discussion going as much as I can but in the end I am only one man doing this. You obviously have the numbers and at this point in time it looks like team USA just doesn't care. It's very discouraging for me.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:40 AM   #83
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

To me it's a sign of defeatism for team USA to include only one center, it's almost as if team usa on purpose created an excuse to lose. What is Carlos Boozer's real height 6' 5", he isn't tall enough to be the backup center. Team USA should give themselves the best opportunity to win and get someone that can rebound, play some defense and can give 5 fouls even if it's Eric Dampier, offense isn't a concern for a team with Bryant and James.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:40 AM   #84
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMedallist
Let's be serious.

Spain would destroy Chinese team.
Argentina would destroy Chinese team.
USA would destroy Chinese team.
Lithuania would destroy Chinese team.
Greece would win Chinese team.
France would win Chinese team.
Italy would win Chinese team.
Germany would win Chinese team.
Brazil would win chinese team.
etc...

Chinese would be good when they get 10 NBA players... but not now.

Exactly. China sucks, not even Stern and the most corrupt NBA refs could work that miracle.
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:54 PM   #85
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

The percentages of winning a title with your country rather than you club should 100% to 0%. Unless you are playing for a foreign country, that's Holden in Russia, Whitfield for the Czechs, and so on. That really is the problem with USA basketball and that might be one of the major things from them being dominant again. Shaq, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Gilbert Arenas, Jermaine O'Neal, and so many players refusing to play, especially big men, and it isn't true that most countries are missing only one player, usually it's more, as I mentioned Lithuania earlier missing at least 3, Greece will be missing a few, Serbia was missing the whole team, there are plenty of countries that could have excuses about missing people, but don't.

b.jerk's statement was strong, and I agree with it. Dwight Howard, the only one who can play center, and now he has a stress fracture. One of my friends had it before, and he wasn't allowed to do anything on his legs besides walking or running. He couldn't jump high anymore, but he recovered after about 3 or 4 months, because he wasn't taking care of it properly. The proper way to care for it is rest it and ice it for about 5 weeks. I don't think Howard can or will do that. Then the US line up would look like this: Kidd/Paul, Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, and Bosh. It looks like an all star lineup, but it won't win international games, sorry. And if they decided to take out Carmelo or Bosh for Wade, God help you.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #86
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

I agree people should want to represent their country more. It's unfortunate, but they don't. The guys who are the best players get paid too much money. They are making 15 to 20 million dollars per year. They don't want to risk injury at the Olympics. They don't purposely create an excuse to lose. The mind set is different here. To those players an NBA championship is considered much more elite than a gold medal. To be honest, it probably is more difficult for a single person on that team to win an NBA championship rather than all of them winning a gold medal. You say that countries are missing a couple players. I agree some are. Some of them because they have players in the NBA. But you contradict yourself with the huge list of players from the NBA. We aren't just missing one or two players. If we changed out 5 of those guys we would nearly be a lock for the gold. But it all goes back to the fact that these guys make too much money in the NBA and covet that championship more.

Like I said before, if more americans cared about USA basketball, there would be more than just me posting. I've even asked others to post. Nobody cares. It's tough to swallow, but I guess for now all people care about is the NBA. I think it has something to do with how the USA is such a melting pot for cultures. We have so many people here who are immigrants that it has somewhat killed the patriotism. Since a lot of people in the States aren't American they don't care about team USA. I don't mean that to sound as bad as it might come off, but I really don't know any other way to word it. Hopefully team USA can make some last minute additions and toughen up the lineup.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:26 PM   #87
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
Kobe's the best player in the world right now. It shouldn't even be a debate. Anybody who thinks less doesn't understand the game of basketball or is just one of those people who are jealous and likes to hate people that are great at what they do. People hated Jordan and now love him. People hate the Yankees in baseball, they now hate the Patriots in football, etc. I respect someone who is the best, even if they aren't on my team.
This will be my last entry on this thread as I obviously know nothing about basketball,I dont hate the greats,I like federer and nadal at tennis,I even liked that german c*** schumacher at F1 but Kobe is a prick of almighty proportions that does not make his teammates batter.my opinion,thats all,one that clearly shows I know nothing about basketball,but its mine and i maintain it.As for the baseball and american football I wont comment cause i know nothing about the yankees or the patriots.As for the NBA being more important than playing for your country,that is obvious I mean come on they call themselves world champions???arrogance or ignorance??both?what do I know?
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:14 PM   #88
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Kobe Bryant maybe a prick but practically everyone's a prick at the top of any professional and the same goes for the euroleague. At least Bryant has talent, nothing pisses me off more than a Ryan Leif.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:09 PM   #89
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Never heard of Ryan Leif. What I do know is Kobe has so many reasons to be hated, he is a prick, to quote la bomba. Obviously there are the Olympics, the World Championship, and ANOTHER World Championship??? That would the NBA, or National Basketball Association. Meaning of the American nation, plus Toronto. England had the first league of football, real football. So did Manchester United crown themselves world champions after winning the league? No, not even after they won the Champions League. This is just a comparison of how low the level of appreciation for international things in the US is. Spain won the European Football championship today, but for some reason nobody crowned them as the World Champions. Why not? For the same reason that the NBA shouldn't crown any of its champions World Champions. It's just degrading their own country. KG was yelling TOP OF THE WORLD!!! No buddy, there still are the Olympics and the World Championship, and if he was European, the Euro Championships, which is probably the hardest thing to win for a basketball player.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:24 PM   #90
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Default Re: Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simasu01
Never heard of Ryan Leif. What I do know is Kobe has so many reasons to be hated, he is a prick, to quote la bomba. Obviously there are the Olympics, the World Championship, and ANOTHER World Championship??? That would the NBA, or National Basketball Association. Meaning of the American nation, plus Toronto. England had the first league of football, real football. So did Manchester United crown themselves world champions after winning the league? No, not even after they won the Champions League. This is just a comparison of how low the level of appreciation for international things in the US is. Spain won the European Football championship today, but for some reason nobody crowned them as the World Champions. Why not? For the same reason that the NBA shouldn't crown any of its champions World Champions. It's just degrading their own country. KG was yelling TOP OF THE WORLD!!! No buddy, there still are the Olympics and the World Championship, and if he was European, the Euro Championships, which is probably the hardest thing to win for a basketball player.
I'll come out of retirement to say .Amen to that.
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