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Old 08-26-2006, 01:15 PM   #31
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I remeber that year when Isaiah got fired from the Pacers. The players just about all wanted to be traded. Zeke has made dumb moves in his years of being in New York. True enough. he should have been the GM and coach likes Riley down there in Miami. Im not saying we will be champions next year, but Zeke gains trust from his players and his peers. That's a fact. The Indiana Pacers proved that. They were at their best with Isaiah as their coach. The knicks this year will be better off with Isaiah at the coaching chair primarily because he truly belives what he put together is pretty good. I do belive they could make it to about the second round. But he has to be devoted to winning and get those players to understand that.
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:10 PM   #32
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I remeber that year when Isaiah got fired from the Pacers. The players just about all wanted to be traded. Zeke has made dumb moves in his years of being in New York. True enough. he should have been the GM and coach likes Riley down there in Miami. Im not saying we will be champions next year, but Zeke gains trust from his players and his peers. That's a fact. The Indiana Pacers proved that. They were at their best with Isaiah as their coach. The knicks this year will be better off with Isaiah at the coaching chair primarily because he truly belives what he put together is pretty good. I do belive they could make it to about the second round. But he has to be devoted to winning and get those players to understand that.

If the Knicks make it to the second round Isiah would deserve to win "the Coach of the year!"
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Old 08-29-2006, 04:51 PM   #33
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I'm tired of hearing these Bulls fans running their mouths about getting getting Greg Oden. How are they gonna do that when the Knicks win at least 35 games next year? F*** that!

The biggest problem last year was Larry Brown and his ass is gone, with his 44 diff. starting lineups. WTF was that? He either wanted to get fired, undermine Thomas or went senile. All I know is in my 15 years watching basketball the two worst coaching jobs I have ever seen was the 05-6 Knicks coached by LB, and the 2004 USA team coached by one L. Brown. I think he shuffled the lineup last year so much to try and show Dolan that he would he would be a better GM and Prez than Isaiah - a failed power play at the expense of everybody else.

Look at the Knicks roster! It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. At least 10 more wins w/o Brown.

The only thing that i agree with you on is the fact that the bulls won't get greg Oden. At the end of the day Larry is a basketball purist and teacher. And his style of coaching/teaching is hard to sell in a tough city like New York. I don't care what the record was, the Knicks were getting better. a key example was when we won 6 games in a row to start the new year. But, then larry lost the attention of his players, and the players would not play for him. Larry was completely right when he said that the roster was flawed cuz it is. We don't have a defined player that we are trying to build around. (I don't think Steph is the kind of guy to build your team around). We had 2 hardnosed defenders on the entire roster when Larry was there (Q-rich, and Malik Rose). We don't have a single shotblocker/rebounder on the team. Channing, Eddy and Jerome were not cutting it on that end. Not to mention the fact that half the team gave up on the coach, which disgusts me.

I'll give you an example of hte kind of players that we have. When tim Thomas was traded to the bulls. Scott Skiles, who i think is one of the best coaches of the NBA, sent him home. Even though he was getting a max contract. What does that say about the kind of players that we are calling Knicks. The addition of Jared Jefferies, Balkman and Collins are a step in the right direction. but firing, Larry brown was 10 steps in the wrong direction.

Also Isiah doesn't show any decency/respect for his coaches. after firing don chanely, lenny wilkins, he just let those guys get torn up in the media. There is a certain demeanor/etiquette that you follow when you fire a HALL OF FAME COACH. Isiah's handling of hte situation was absolutely deplorable. Mike Montgomery was just fired but by Chris Mullin, but it was done in a dignified way. the way Isiah handled the situation was the equivalent of hosting a circus. It ridiculed Larry, It ridiculed the Knicks as an organization, and worst of all it ridiculed Knick fans.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:40 PM   #34
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At least for the short term, it is the coaches job to adapt the team's style to the players he has and to teach them to maximize their strengths and minimize their deficits.

I played pro ball (soccer) and coached little league. In the 7 years I coached, we won four championships and my team never finished lower than second.

Only one year out of seven did I have a really talented team with fast, athletic players. That team was so good that after they scored three or four goals, usually in the first half of the game, I would take my best players out and insist that the team feed only players who not yet scored in that season. Of course we won the championship that year. But what was amazing is that when we played the second place team late in the season with all my offensive stars out due to a birthday party, one of the kids who had not scored in several years, scored his first goal to tie the game for us and his second goal to win the game.

One of my teams was so slow and untalented that the only decent player I had was was my goal keeper from the previous year. He had a pretty good shot, but was so slow that his own father bet me that he would never be successful at playing forward. That team with him as center forward averaged only about one goal a game. But we played tough defense and controlled the ball allowing him to waddle up and down the field were he got passes that enabled him to take 2 to 3 shots a game. We won most of our games.

In the NBA the fans are paying to see wins. It is up to the coach to get his players to play their best.

Larry Brown is very rigid. He does not adapt to what he has. He works like an army drill Sargent. The first year he breaks them down, next year he builds them up.

42 starting line ups were confusing to the Knicks. As was LB's new style. He did not have rocket scientists on the team. The only time LB won six games in a row was when he settled on a fixed rotation. When he changed it they lost again. Yes Marbury's injury played a big part. But dramatically altering a winning lineup by LB played even a larger role.

A great coach makes every team better. And improvement should have been evident before the end of the season.

But, LB's priorities were not to win his players over, teach them how to play better and produce a winning attitude that first year. It was to throw out much of the team and start over with "his type of players" the next. Even with the Knicks NBA leading payroll -- they would not wave (throw away) 80-Million-dollars worth of players just to please LB.
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Old 08-31-2006, 03:22 AM   #35
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The only thing that i agree with you on is the fact that the bulls won't get greg Oden. At the end of the day Larry is a basketball purist and teacher. And his style of coaching/teaching is hard to sell in a tough city like New York. I don't care what the record was, the Knicks were getting better. a key example was when we won 6 games in a row to start the new year. But, then larry lost the attention of his players, and the players would not play for him. Larry was completely right when he said that the roster was flawed cuz it is. We don't have a defined player that we are trying to build around. (I don't think Steph is the kind of guy to build your team around). We had 2 hardnosed defenders on the entire roster when Larry was there (Q-rich, and Malik Rose). We don't have a single shotblocker/rebounder on the team. Channing, Eddy and Jerome were not cutting it on that end. Not to mention the fact that half the team gave up on the coach, which disgusts me.

I'll give you an example of hte kind of players that we have. When tim Thomas was traded to the bulls. Scott Skiles, who i think is one of the best coaches of the NBA, sent him home. Even though he was getting a max contract. What does that say about the kind of players that we are calling Knicks. The addition of Jared Jefferies, Balkman and Collins are a step in the right direction. but firing, Larry brown was 10 steps in the wrong direction.

Also Isiah doesn't show any decency/respect for his coaches. after firing don chanely, lenny wilkins, he just let those guys get torn up in the media. There is a certain demeanor/etiquette that you follow when you fire a HALL OF FAME COACH. Isiah's handling of hte situation was absolutely deplorable. Mike Montgomery was just fired but by Chris Mullin, but it was done in a dignified way. the way Isiah handled the situation was the equivalent of hosting a circus. It ridiculed Larry, It ridiculed the Knicks as an organization, and worst of all it ridiculed Knick fans.

For one thing i am GLAD Isaiah fired LB. For once Isaiah admitted he made a mistake and didn't have to say it. He also didn't allow the siuation linger for the entire 5 yrs. Cut it now. Good job Zeke. Larry has always wanted HIS type of players. The knicks don't have HIS type of players and trying to get 12 -15 guys who play to a coaches style is ridiculous. The coach as great as LB is SUPPOSED to be should adapt to what he has. That is what great Coaches have done throughout the NBA and in any other sport. So that's B.S. But take the 6 game win streak in 2006. One set rotation with minimum changes made that possible. Same players. Same rotation. But then Marbury got hurt and of course LB changed the entire rotation again. Nate got bench 2 games after he "won" the slam dunk. Great way to upbuild your young rookie. David lee played great ever chance he got. but was he rewarded. Nope. Back to the bench! For Mo and Malik. The season was over after the all star break but this dude was still hammering out more rotation changes. Blame the players for that HuH? NO. Great coaches don't blast their players in the media. 30 years of b-ball experience and that's what LB comes to. Oh yeah I forgot, he has done his whole career. Ask A.I. By the way Tim thomas played his best ball ever in phoenix. That's what happens when your coach trusts you to play ball. Coaches are to motivate. Not deteriorate. They encourage not discourage. They help build chemistry on the court not confuse players with 40+ rotations and benchings. Great coaches won't resort to blasting their players in the media. By the way he blasted the dream team also and provided them the opportunity to thoroughly embarrass the entire U.S. Great Coach. My Ass!
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:53 PM   #36
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For one thing i am GLAD Isaiah fired LB. For once Isaiah admitted he made a mistake and didn't have to say it. He also didn't allow the siuation linger for the entire 5 yrs. Cut it now. Good job Zeke. Larry has always wanted HIS type of players. The knicks don't have HIS type of players and trying to get 12 -15 guys who play to a coaches style is ridiculous. The coach as great as LB is SUPPOSED to be should adapt to what he has. That is what great Coaches have done throughout the NBA and in any other sport. So that's B.S. But take the 6 game win streak in 2006. One set rotation with minimum changes made that possible. Same players. Same rotation. But then Marbury got hurt and of course LB changed the entire rotation again. Nate got bench 2 games after he "won" the slam dunk. Great way to upbuild your young rookie. David lee played great ever chance he got. but was he rewarded. Nope. Back to the bench! For Mo and Malik. The season was over after the all star break but this dude was still hammering out more rotation changes. Blame the players for that HuH? NO. Great coaches don't blast their players in the media. 30 years of b-ball experience and that's what LB comes to. Oh yeah I forgot, he has done his whole career. Ask A.I. By the way Tim thomas played his best ball ever in phoenix. That's what happens when your coach trusts you to play ball. Coaches are to motivate. Not deteriorate. They encourage not discourage. They help build chemistry on the court not confuse players with 40+ rotations and benchings. Great coaches won't resort to blasting their players in the media. By the way he blasted the dream team also and provided them the opportunity to thoroughly embarrass the entire U.S. Great Coach. My Ass!

Why on earth would a coach reward horrible play. As far as i'm concerned a great coach knows exactly what he wants and doesn't settle for anything less. If you can point out a coach that take a roster full of horrible/lazy players and turns them into a winnning team, i'll be very suprised. i think your idea, is purley utopian, if not outright fictional. People often cite Phil Jackson as an example but he hasn't won since Shaq and Kobe were on the same team. Or Mike D'antoni as another example, but he has the players that he wants. They all are explosive and like to play up tempo game that he coaches. My favorite coaches are Jeff Van Gundy, Mike fratello, Larry Brown and most of all Scott Skiles. I like nitty gritty players. we have only one player like that on the entire roster and that is Malik Rose. Jeff Van Gundy just traded his first round pick and stro swift for Shane Battier, who is a nitty gritty leader/player. the knicks need more guys like Shane. With the exception of the rookies, every last player on the Knicks are overpaid. Which is a reason why they prob. couldn't work with a coach like larry brown. They had no incentive to work, with a retard of an owner like James Dolan. I don't care what anyone says, but that team was getting better particularly in the beginning of the year and during our winnig streak. i think Larry was finally getting Steph to buy into his philosophy during the streak, and i don't know what happened to break that. In those 6 games Steph played the best basketball that i have every seen him play in his entire career, and I know him personally. But things didn't work out. The 76ers, haven't been passed the first round of the playoffs since larry left. The piston's didn't make it to the finals, despite having an amazing record. There was unbelievable dissension between team captain, Ben Wallace and head coach Flip Saunders, that wasn't there when Larry was there.

All i'm saying is that every coach in the league has certain demands, especically winning coaches. But each coach has different demands, and is stricter/more lenient than the next. Phil Jackson needs to have at least two superstars on each team that he is on. Scott Skiles needs players that are willing to play tough defense and work hard. That is why, despite being undersized the bulls were the best defensive team in the NBA last year. The tim thomas example can't even be put into consideration, because it was his contract year after he was waived by the bulls. You can't blame Larry brown for having demands, in fact i personally applaud him for having those demands. That is what a coach is supposed to have. When he realized that he wasn't going to have players that were going to come to work he wanted them waived, and he had every right. His system of coaching was the only proven thing on the Knicks last year. None of the players on the team are real winners, but Larry has won championships on all levels. He knows what it takes to win.

The only flaw that i can see with larry's tenure was the fact that he would try and make deals with other coaches for certain players that he wanted. that is the general manager's job. And the fact that he berated the players in the media made them untradeable. But if the owner was more competent he wouldn't put a winning coach/teacher in that situation. he should have hired Kiki Vanderweghe who is a North Carolina guy just like Larry as the GM, cuz they would see eye to eye, on things and make proper trades. Now we have an inexperienced coach, and a load of pressure.
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Old 08-31-2006, 06:19 PM   #37
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Who has the publishing rights to this thread? It might make a good book!
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:49 AM   #38
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Who has the publishing rights to this thread? It might make a good book!

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Old 09-02-2006, 02:18 PM   #39
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So TRU BALLER, you must believe that the knicks will have improved under LB if he were here the whole 5 years? How could that happen berating your players through the media? How can it happen by calling your players "delusional"? How can that happen if you can't stick to a set rotation? How can that happen if the main player on your team is the same player you wanted booted off of "dream team" that you coached! You know LB thought all those players on dream team were not "team players". Amazingly you give credit to LB for leading the 2004 pistons to a championship and the return visit against the spirs. Of coursse Lb was the reason . So since Lb groomed those players into champions, through no skill of their own, then why didn't he do that for the knicks! The knicks won't win a championship as constructed no matter who caoches them, but talent takes you where you want to go, dude. They have enough talent to make the playoffs, period. They need consistency, trust, and a coach that uses the talents of what he has available. Zeke did that in Indy, and he likes what he has going onto the floor this upcoming season. And if someone doesn't fit I think he will make a trade for what he wants. Here is the main reason I don't think LB is a good coach. He had one player last year who is on the verge of being an all-star. Jamal Crawford. He knew Jamal can play. He even worked on his defense some. The guy played his ass off. So what does LB do. bench him. take him out the rotation, give him garbage minutes. Although Crawfor has the knack to take and make game winners. 6 last year. Of course LB wanted him TRADED. Just like he wanted Chauncey TRADED after he won the finals MVP. F-U-C-K LB!!!!!!
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Old 09-02-2006, 06:28 PM   #40
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So TRU BALLER, you must believe that the knicks will have improved under LB if he were here the whole 5 years? How could that happen berating your players through the media? How can it happen by calling your players "delusional"? How can that happen if you can't stick to a set rotation? How can that happen if the main player on your team is the same player you wanted booted off of "dream team" that you coached! You know LB thought all those players on dream team were not "team players". Amazingly you give credit to LB for leading the 2004 pistons to a championship and the return visit against the spirs. Of coursse Lb was the reason . So since Lb groomed those players into champions, through no skill of their own, then why didn't he do that for the knicks! The knicks won't win a championship as constructed no matter who caoches them, but talent takes you where you want to go, dude. They have enough talent to make the playoffs, period. They need consistency, trust, and a coach that uses the talents of what he has available. Zeke did that in Indy, and he likes what he has going onto the floor this upcoming season. And if someone doesn't fit I think he will make a trade for what he wants. Here is the main reason I don't think LB is a good coach. He had one player last year who is on the verge of being an all-star. Jamal Crawford. He knew Jamal can play. He even worked on his defense some. The guy played his ass off. So what does LB do. bench him. take him out the rotation, give him garbage minutes. Although Crawfor has the knack to take and make game winners. 6 last year. Of course LB wanted him TRADED. Just like he wanted Chauncey TRADED after he won the finals MVP. F-U-C-K LB!!!!!!

Wait a minute! LB wanted Crawford traded? Where did you read that?

Yes Crawford was the one player that improved GREATLY under LB -- on offense and defense. And he became LB's kind of player even though LB had said that he would never become a point guard early in the season.

LB was not flexible. But he does know how to coach if he has the type of players he wants. LB probably would have had a winning team after 5 years or less. But, he would have needed to trade for some of "his type" of players.

Isiah's concept of the players he wanted on the team and LB's concept were dramatically different. LB should never have taken the Knicks job and Isiah should never have hired LB! There seems to have been a serious lack of communications or honesty between the two men.
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:59 AM   #41
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Wait a minute! LB wanted Crawford traded? Where did you read that?

Yes Crawford was the one player that improved GREATLY under LB -- on offense and defense. And he became LB's kind of player even though LB had said that he would never become a point guard early in the season.

LB was not flexible. But he does know how to coach if he has the type of players he wants. LB probably would have had a winning team after 5 years or less. But, he would have needed to trade for some of "his type" of players.

Isiah's concept of the players he wanted on the team and LB's concept were dramatically different. LB should never have taken the Knicks job and Isiah should never have hired LB! There seems to have been a serious lack of communications or honesty between the two men.

As soon as i can find the quote I will post it. I hope you got my apology in the other post . If not I'm apologizing here too. In my opinion, Our down fall came when Pat Riley left town. Although we were good under Jeff still making the playoffs, Pat to me is the best coach of the modern day NBA. No matter what he has at his disposal as far as players he adapts. Showtime fast break lakers. Grind you to the ground knicks, and an identical but not as good early heat team. Now a superstar but balanced heat. All he needs is one legit star and he eventually blends players that compliment that star and that stars style of play. He doesn't change the star's play though LB always wants to trade the star. I know you can't deny that even though Chaubcey was the finals mvp, and maybe learned more from LB than anyone he still wanted him TRADED. LB is just not loyal. Neither to the organizations or the players he has. All coaches may want players traded. Pat Riley would trade anyone if he thought the person he was getting was better. But I can't recall any time in Heatland where Pat traded the star of his team. I think Glen Rice might qualify, might or maybe. Zo the first time he played retired for his illness so I don't think that was one. Eddie Jones was over the hill, so he don't count either. The knicks should have Pat the access to the GM spot for us and that peice of the team he was looking for.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:24 AM   #42
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As soon as i can find the quote I will post it. I hope you got my apology in the other post . If not I'm apologizing here too. In my opinion, Our down fall came when Pat Riley left town. Although we were good under Jeff still making the playoffs, Pat to me is the best coach of the modern day NBA. No matter what he has at his disposal as far as players he adapts. Showtime fast break lakers. Grind you to the ground knicks, and an identical but not as good early heat team. Now a superstar but balanced heat. All he needs is one legit star and he eventually blends players that compliment that star and that stars style of play. He doesn't change the star's play though LB always wants to trade the star. I know you can't deny that even though Chaubcey was the finals mvp, and maybe learned more from LB than anyone he still wanted him TRADED. LB is just not loyal. Neither to the organizations or the players he has. All coaches may want players traded. Pat Riley would trade anyone if he thought the person he was getting was better. But I can't recall any time in Heatland where Pat traded the star of his team. I think Glen Rice might qualify, might or maybe. Zo the first time he played retired for his illness so I don't think that was one. Eddie Jones was over the hill, so he don't count either. The knicks should have Pat the access to the GM spot for us and that peice of the team he was looking for.

Stop apologising already.

Pat left because of the Knick's management. They would not allow him to build a championship team. If the Knicks were smart they would have made him GM too.

Rick Patino was also a very good Knick coach, who I suspect left due to the Knick's poor management.
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:17 PM   #43
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