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Old 04-20-2008, 09:44 PM   #1231
SoCalMike
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Again, you don't get it. Great players manage to have both a tangible and intangible effect on games. Kobe, according to his fans during bad games like this, only manages the latter. Why should he get a pass if he wants to be compared to all-time greats?

Point blank: Kobe can win two more rings, but if he averages like 26/5/5/44% shooting while doing it, it doesn't matter how much "other stuff" he did (having defenders pay attention to him etc., which Laker fans seem to think happens all the time), he won't compare favorably to the top 10 all-time, since they all did that and produced as well.

Again and again, you don't get it. You look at things one dimensionally..... Kobe does not win two more rings.. the Lakers do and he is part of that team. Wake up man! Winning championships is a collective effort in which a group of individuals contribute and bring forth an effort to defeat their opponents. Greatness can come in different forms. All the great players had good and bad games... you use history as a brush stroke of time to imply that these greats never had a bad game statistically. It just does not equate.


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Old 04-20-2008, 09:46 PM   #1232
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

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Originally Posted by hotsizzle
HATERRRRR!!!

No but seriously, if this is what happens after a 14 point victory because Kobe had a bad shooting night, how will this board get after a loss?


who knows?

hate threads left and right


but also what will happen if L.A wins it all this year. Most of the haters will die down, but it will also get to the point (if it isn't already at that point) where you will be called a Kobe hater for not declaring him as "the unquestionable GOAT in all of sports" and despising MJ.


the truth is that as bad as Kobe haters are, their groupies are worse IMO.

Even back in the 90s, MJ nut riders were Bulls bandwagoners. Although I don't think Ive seen them bashing every player mentioned in the same sentence as him while he was still playing. I don't recall many MJ fans bashing Harold Miner or Grant Hill or even Penny Hardaway the way I see Kobe "fans" a few years ago bashing Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, and more recently LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Chris Paul, etc on other boards. I've seen so called "Lakers fans" calling Magic Johnson overrated in an all-time Lakers great list. Ridiculous **** like that.

The sad part is I've also seen someone say that "if you buy anything endorse by MJ or anything with a jumpman logo, then you're not a Lakers fan."





I know he's got a lot of haters and they are bad, but his nutriders are just as bad.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:47 PM   #1233
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Oh, and for the record, I agree with most of what Loki is saying. Normally he talks out of his ass after games, but today Kobe really didn't have a large impact on the game. I'd say Lamar actually had an equal, if not greater impact than Kobe did, when taking both the positives and the negatives of both players into consideration.

He forced a lot of shots, missed a lot of the ones he did, and it was Pau's presence moreso than Kobe's that affected the way the defense was playing. I can only remember once that Kobe posted up and managed to draw extra attention that opened up shots for others. That 1 assist isn't deceiving, he just didn't have that large of an offensive impact. One of the worst games I've seen him play in that regard actually. He just didn't really do much.

He was pretty good off the ball though, moving from his spot in the low post to the top left of the FT line. That did open the floor up at times for the Lakers I suppose. Still, Pau and Lamar FTW. And Luke. Always Luke.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:49 PM   #1234
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Oh, and for the record, I agree with most of what Loki is saying. Normally he talks out of his ass after games, but today Kobe really didn't have a large impact on the game. I'd say Lamar actually had an equal, if not greater impact than Kobe did, when taking both the positives and the negatives of both players into consideration.

He forced a lot of shots, missed a lot of the ones he did, and it was Pau's presence moreso than Kobe's that affected the way the defense was playing. I can only remember once that Kobe posted up and managed to draw extra attention that opened up shots for others. That 1 assist isn't deceiving, he just didn't have that large of an offensive impact. One of the worst games I've seen him play in that regard actually. He just didn't really do much.

He was pretty good off the ball though, moving from his spot in the low post to the top left of the FT line. That did open the floor up at times for the Lakers I suppose. Still, Pau and Lamar FTW. And Luke. Always Luke.

This difference is in how you present the information versus the Loki spin... much, much different, with you being more realistic and pragmatic.


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Old 04-20-2008, 09:49 PM   #1235
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
Again and again, you don't get it. You look at things one dimensionally..... Kobe does not win two more rings.. the Lakers do and he is part of that team. Wake up man! Winning championships is a collective effort in which a group of individuals contribute and bring forth an effort to defeat their opponents. Greatness can come in different forms. All the great players had good and bad games... you use history as a brush stroke of time to imply that these greats never had a bad game statistically. It just does not equate.


no socal, it can't be like that because if it's like that, other great players who have multiple rings will be considered lesser players if it's considered a team effort...
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:50 PM   #1236
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Oh, and for the record, I agree with most of what Loki is saying. Normally he talks out of his ass after games, but today Kobe really didn't have a large impact on the game. I'd say Lamar actually had an equal, if not greater impact than Kobe did, when taking both the positives and the negatives of both players into consideration.

He forced a lot of shots, missed a lot of the ones he did, and it was Pau's presence moreso than Kobe's that affected the way the defense was playing. I can only remember once that Kobe posted up and managed to draw extra attention that opened up shots for others. That 1 assist isn't deceiving, he just didn't have that large of an offensive impact. One of the worst games I've seen him play in that regard actually. He just didn't really do much.

He was pretty good off the ball though, moving from his spot in the low post to the top left of the FT line. That did open the floor up at times for the Lakers I suppose. Still, Pau and Lamar FTW. And Luke. Always Luke.

Pau played better then Kobe by far. But Kobe drew Kenyon Martin on defense and that caused a mismatch for someone everytime down the floor. I think that had a lot to do with how Denver played on defense.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #1237
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
no socal, it can't be like that because if it's like that, other great players who have multiple rings will be considered lesser players if it's considered a team effort...

dang, i guess i dont get it then! thank you for clearning things up.



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Old 04-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #1238
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Pau played better then Kobe by far. But Kobe drew Kenyon Martin on defense and that caused a mismatch for someone everytime down the floor. I think that had a lot to do with how Denver played on defense.
Definitely true, took a ton of beef away from the basket for the Nugs. Bad coaching I guess. And the Carter fiasco.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:54 PM   #1239
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Definitely true, took a ton of beef away from the basket for the Nugs. Bad coaching I guess. And the Carter fiasco.

Thats a HUGE element of the game not shown in the stat sheet.



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Old 04-20-2008, 09:57 PM   #1240
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Alright, now we're getting rational!!!

All in all, I feel Pau had the most impact on the game because I value his presence more than Odom but of the things you can catch with the eye, IMO, it was Odom who was most impressive today.
Kobe had a bad game for his standards and actually threw a few...BRICKS. Bricks, yes. Usually, when he misses, it usually isn't bad but today he actually missed the rim a few times and some shots were just badly off the target. Pretty embarrassing actually. But I don't think he was trying really to make it a good game for himself either. The other Lakers were winning the game just fine.

What puzzles me about this is all this attention on Kobe's bad game because it's Kobe and it was a bad game. Absolutely amazing.
Kobe is bigger than anything here and it isn't even close.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:02 PM   #1241
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Camby is pathetic. He's the most overrated piece of sh*t on the team, and he can't sniff Kenyon's jock when it comes to D. His rebounding has been slipping, and all he does is gamble for blocks and leave his man and the rim open, hence Pau getting bunnies. I mean how do you leave the 2nd option open for dunks all game long? Make him take long range jumpers, or atleast score in the post off of postup isos, that was awful.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:05 PM   #1242
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Kobe has as many haters as he does because of all the comparisons, which automatically make MJ fans into Kobe haters. Then you have the crazy Laker fans who proclaim Kobe to be the undisputed best player in the league for the last numerous seasons, being robbed of MVPs, etc. The constant of that talk rubs fans of other teams the wrong way and that creates hate towards Kobe.

His fans and media have as much to do with the hate as the haters have to do with it.

His impact today was not THAT great. He was shot-happy for a few stretches, and his defense was at times very poor and lazy. He was basically a non-factor on offense for much of the first half (though he did create some shots for others with the dribble-drive, which his teammates missed) and was pretty much a role player out there.

Second half was the Kobe we're used to seeing. He played well, he got to the free throw line and really put pressure on the defense. There was a time when he decided to chuck, but that happens with the great scorers. Yes, even Michael Jordan.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:06 PM   #1243
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

The nuggets are in trouble. They now know they cant put that much attention on Kobe without getting killed by Pau, Odom and the rest. Kobe had a horrible shooting night, yet Lakers controlled the game and won pretty easily. They really dont have a lot of other options now. Lakers stay focused and this series is over in 5.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:07 PM   #1244
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Gasol put up huge numbers. It was nice to see, but keep in mind that he benefited from constant pick-roll layups. He must have caught the ball, on averge, 6 feet from the basket. To his credit, he made all those layups, which is something Kwame was unable to do.

Gasol has never had it so easy...playing with Odom and Kobe.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:07 PM   #1245
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Default Re: Round 1: Lakers vs Nuggets

Why, how the **** has this gotten onto MJ?!

I mean seriously? The lakers play a team game now, thats why they might actually go somewhere now, thats why they were the top seed, KOBE IS NO LONGER THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF THIS TEAM THAT IS WHY WE ARE NOW WINNING. Jesus man, if our team was still only winning games when Kobe dropped 40+ then fair enough, but we win games now because we're a ****in unit, because we aren't a team that needs one man being amazing to win.

This board gets lowered down because for some reason whenever anything positive and to a lesser extent negative happens regarding the Lakers, it turns into a "kobe isn't Michael Jordan" discussion. Whatever retards are even arguing this need to realize this is the LAKERS vs Nuggets thread. The laker's do have other players on their team. If the thread were called Kobe vs Nugget's your irrelevant moronically phrased arguments might hold weight, but it isn't so they do not. If you want to talk **** like this, go form your own little message board and talk away. Otherwise stop ****ing up what could be a perfectly good place to talk sports if it were not for the fact we get complete idiots trying to make every single laker related matter a comparison to a dude who retired the GOAT and is likely to never be surpassed.

I urge everyone on this messageboard, if you're in a laker thread and see someone who uses the word Jordan after this post, put them on ignore. You'll soon find out who's talking out of their ass and who isn't.

Anyway. Good win LAKERS. Can't wait for wednesday.
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