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Old 08-17-2006, 02:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mamba
I agree with Biggly.

Though, I'd put Timmy Hardaway, and KJ in the HOF. Two, very much slept on guards of their generation.


NO WAY Timmy should make it.

Why in the world do you think he should?
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleNader
Discuss...

also, what do you guys think about Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, and Grant Hill's chances?
Webber: No. When I think of his I think of the timeout he called as a young man and all of the postseason choking that followed it right up to becoming a spectator while Mike Bibby was left to battle LA single-handedly. Can anyone think of a playoff series where he played great? He has the statistics of an HoFer but never played that way when it mattered.

Mitch Richmond: I like him and would personally put him in, but he spent his best years putting up big numbers for an irrelevent Kings team. That's probably what's going to hurt him as much as anything else: It's the "Hall of Fame," but after Run TMC, was he really famous?

Tim Hardaway: Only an All-Star 5 times...not sure that that's enough. His HOF monitor score is 130, and databasebasketball says a likely HoFer is 135.

KJ: 3-time All-Star. Liked him a lot, but injuries killed this.

Grant Hill: 7-time All-Star, with one of those appearnaces due to a sympathy vote from fans as he wasn't even playing his first year in Orlando. A sympathy vote from the writers could put him in the Hall, but injuries have kept his career from being truly HOF-worthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo
I'd put him in the HoF for his inclusion in the Fab Five. Honestly I think all of those guys should make the Hall, maybe as a group not individuals, they revolutionized college basketball, both in playing style and off the court (particularly the commercializing of the sport).
The Fab Five popularized long shorts but other than that...what did they do? And long shorts isn't much of an achievement, by the way. They were a supremely talented recruiting class, but they never won the National Championship or even their Conference Championship.They did achieve a great deal of "fame," I'll give them that, but they never achieved greatness. The NCAA doesn't even officially recognize them because of all of their payment violations. They've been erased from the record book. They'll never get in.
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:40 AM   #18
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you mean you wouldn't put Jimmy and Ray in the Hall?!!?!? :o!!!
[ i know you're right, I just loved the Fab Five]
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Webber: No. When I think of his I think of the timeout he called as a young man and all of the postseason choking that followed it right up to becoming a spectator while Mike Bibby was left to battle LA single-handedly. Can anyone think of a playoff series where he played great? He has the statistics of an HoFer but never played that way when it mattered.

Man did you see that series? Bibby had some good games but he was hardly alone.

1st game: Webber 28/14/6 (14/25 shooting) Bibby 19 points 5 assists (7/21 shooting)

2nd game: Webber 21/13/5 (9/22) Bibby 20/8 (6/15) First game Sac won.

3rd game: Webber 26/9/6 (12/21) Bibby 24/5 (8/14) Now this was the game Bibby got famous for making all those dazzling shots especially right before half-time but it was C-Webb that hit the 18 footer that put them up for good.

4th game: Webber 20/6 (9/16) Bibby 21/4 (9/16)- the Horry heartbreaker. SAC missed clutch free throws that killed them.

5th game: Webber 29/13/3 (12/23) Bibby 23 (9/17)-Bibby hits the clutch shot to win it off the pass and screen from Webber. Yeah he's all alone.

6th game: Webber 26/13/8 (12/22) Bibby 23/3 (7/20)-LA shoots 40 FTs. SAC agains misses clutch fre throws

7th game: Webber 20/8/11 (9/21) Bibby 29/4 (11/25)-OT Loss in which they missed 14 FTs. Everybody put this loss on Webber. said he should have shot more but his ouput was consistent and LA was all over him in the post. He set Bibby up for that 29 and had 11 assists. Basically they were in a dead tie against the world champs at the end of 7 games. The clutch shots were deferred to Bibby because of his emergence as a hot shooter but it was Webber who got them there.

They were again about to throttle Dallas the next year when Webb went down with the knee and Dallas came back to take the series. I should say Van Exel took the series. Either way befoe Webber got to town the Kings were the purgatory of the league. He made them the mots popular team in the league. Anyway is a HOF? not a lock but should be considered.
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:37 AM   #20
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A simple no
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:45 AM   #21
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Yes, I saw the series, and I was mainly referring to game 7, where the entire Kings team was clearly scared to shoot with the sole exception of Mike Bibby, That ball might as well have been a hot potato. Webber put up fine statistics but his play in the clutch was typically woeful. He did nothing in the 4th quarter and OT, the type of play that has defined his career in the clutch. He set Bibby up? More like he was thanking God to have someone to take the heat off of him and was hoping that Bibby could get it done in his place. And when you constantly blame the FT shooting, don't forget that Webber's one of the main guys missing them. Did you watch the series? Because if you did then you'd have seen that Webber was severely lacking in the clutch, really Bibby was the only King that didn't choke.
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:45 AM   #22
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how much more do T-Mac, Carter, and Ray have to do in order to get in? can they get in on stats alone?
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:05 PM   #23
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Yes, he should be in the hall.

People hate on Webber for being a choker, loser, etc. but the man has flat out made teams better his entire career. Golden State has barely sniffed the playoffs since he left. It took Washington 7 years to get out of the lottery post Webber. If Bibby were so great he wouldn't have let the Kings have a worse record than Portland last year before Artest came on board. Webber has taken 3 perennial losers and brought them to the playoffs. Each team has been worse off after he left. That accounts for something.

Webber's reputation for choking when it counts is also largely undeserved. He rarely gets credit for playing well in the playoffs and almost always gets bashed when he doesn't. Nobody talks about him dropping a triple double on Dirk in the playoffs of 04 while on one leg. Or him battling MVP KG to 7 games that same year (a series in which he was the only King to bring it every game). Bibby has yet to have a good series without Webber. The Kings had quite a few chokers on that 2002 team - Peja, Christie, Hedo. Webber was not one of them. He has hit numerous game winning shots for the Kings. Just off the top of my head I remember multiple winners against Utah and a 3 pointer against Boston.

No matter how you cut it, Webber is a winner and is HOF worthy.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleNader
Discuss...

also, what do you guys think about Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, and Grant Hill's chances?

CWebb should be a HoF by virtue of calling that immortal timeout.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:10 PM   #25
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Webber had had too many injuries which robbed him of stats (not to mention his athleticism.)
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:15 PM   #26
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No don't think he's HOF material. Cauhgt in the Michigan scandle. Really just don't feel he should make the HOF.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Yes, I saw the series, and I was mainly referring to game 7, where the entire Kings team was clearly scared to shoot with the sole exception of Mike Bibby, That ball might as well have been a hot potato. Webber put up fine statistics but his play in the clutch was typically woeful. He did nothing in the 4th quarter and OT, the type of play that has defined his career in the clutch. He set Bibby up? More like he was thanking God to have someone to take the heat off of him and was hoping that Bibby could get it done in his place. And when you constantly blame the FT shooting, don't forget that Webber's one of the main guys missing them. Did you watch the series? Because if you did then you'd have seen that Webber was severely lacking in the clutch, really Bibby was the only King that didn't choke.

Well Mr. Green, allow me to disagree a tad. Webber is a smart player who knows his limitations and the strength of his teammates and Bibby was hot at the time. Webber was shooting his mid-range shot which was off but he also was setting guys up with nice passes. Now CW was not the clutch shooter option at the time. Bibby was. Much like Kobe and Shaq. When the Lakers needed a clutch shot they went to Kobe or Fisher or Horry. Much like Russell's Celtics. Russ didnt take the clutch shots himself and for the most part with the exception of a couple of memorable games neither did Magic. I dont ever recall Shaq making a clutch shot game winner in a playoff game. he has a history of disappearing in 4th quarters. yes he would get fouled but the point is someone else did it. I dont think it diminished his status one bit to defer to Bibby. There are other things you can do in the clutch besides shoot.The timeout fiasco is what makes people watch Webber so closely with the game on the line but he put his team in a position to win and go to the Finals and it takes a pretty good player to do that.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:35 PM   #28
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I think this should be a no brainer that Webber gets in. The guy has been a 20 , 10 player for years. Lead the Kings to some pretty heafty playoff series but ultimately he never accomplised getting a championship. Webber is one of the greatest big man passers our game has seen lately. Sure he had some injuries that robbed him of play but I think what he has done is enough to get him in the HOF.No question this man deserves it. Stop focusing on the bad and look what he has done for teams.The man was a franchise player for many years but tends to get too much slack because he called a" timeout".
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Artesticle
Yes, he should be in the hall.

People hate on Webber for being a choker, loser, etc. but the man has flat out made teams better his entire career. Golden State has barely sniffed the playoffs since he left. It took Washington 7 years to get out of the lottery post Webber. If Bibby were so great he wouldn't have let the Kings have a worse record than Portland last year before Artest came on board. Webber has taken 3 perennial losers and brought them to the playoffs. Each team has been worse off after he left. That accounts for something.

Webber's reputation for choking when it counts is also largely undeserved. He rarely gets credit for playing well in the playoffs and almost always gets bashed when he doesn't. Nobody talks about him dropping a triple double on Dirk in the playoffs of 04 while on one leg. Or him battling MVP KG to 7 games that same year (a series in which he was the only King to bring it every game). Bibby has yet to have a good series without Webber. The Kings had quite a few chokers on that 2002 team - Peja, Christie, Hedo. Webber was not one of them. He has hit numerous game winning shots for the Kings. Just off the top of my head I remember multiple winners against Utah and a 3 pointer against Boston.

No matter how you cut it, Webber is a winner and is HOF worthy.

No sorry, Webber is not a winner and among the Kings, the top 2 chokers are Webber and Stojakovic.

But I still feel that he should be in the HoF because of the timeout.

Last edited by TheHonestTruth : 08-17-2006 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:49 PM   #30
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The basketball HOF is a joke, so who gives a shyt
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