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Old 01-24-2010, 10:06 PM   #1666
ILLsmak
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlliniFan
I was going to post the same thing. This guy is not an Illinois fan.

lol, I'm sorry you are questioning my fan-hood. As if it can be so easily defined...

I am hype for Brandon Paul because we don't usually get great players like him. Deron... and then who? You gotta go way back to think of anyone who was as good as BP.

I'm sorry you guys don't see it, but the team plays better when BP is on the floor and McCamey is killing us by being the primary ball handler. We don't have a PG and we don't have anyone (except McCamey and Paul) that can consistently break down defenses... so we are struggling. Wait til next year.

-Smak
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:34 PM   #1667
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

That's not really a way to think of it. If all you're looking for is talent and players to root for, then might as well just stick with the NBA.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:37 AM   #1668
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
That's not really a way to think of it. If all you're looking for is talent and players to root for, then might as well just stick with the NBA.

lol, are you serious? I dunno... I kinda want to be like "How old are you, where do you live, what makes you the 'perfect Illini fan'?" But I'm not gonna go there because I could just as easily pull the also ambiguous "You don't really know bball!" card. Get out of here with both of those. It's insulting and very childish.

Talent wins basketball games. These days, you can't really have a team that is 'good' without players that can be a threat at every position. The team of Tizzy, Mike Davis, Brandon Paul, DJ, and McCamey is a no brainer for a starting lineup.

I'm gonna break it down for you like I told my boy. If you go out and pick up a player like BP (or DJ, for that matter), you gotta give them PT. I can't imagine Bruce sold it to him that he was going to be coming off the bench behind Bill Cole.

We are underperforming... why? Maybe we should try giving one of our best talents a chance... because even when he takes a bad shot I personally believe he learns from it. McCamey has been THE SAME PLAYER and will continue to be THE SAME PLAYER. I pull out the same lame-ass comment (about being an Illini fan) to anyone who really believes McCamey is the player we need to have with the ball in his hands.

Also, BP is our best defender and the ball moves more fluidly when he's on the floor. Not as much McCamey holding it... I dunno, I'll let you guys go and do whatever you think it is being Illini fans, but I just wanted to say all this.

It's funny to imagine someone would be insulting me for saying we should give our best prospect as much time as possible in what is shaping up to be a NON NCAA season.

Peace

-Smak
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:02 AM   #1669
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

To each their own; I just find it odd that you can claim to be an Illini fan but spend your entire time berating every player not named Brandon Paul and our coach.

I don't even know how that works nor do I really respect it. The way you put it, you just seem act like Brandon Paul at his current raw stage can win every game for us. I think you need to take off the goggles cause he does a lot of bad things out there that has made him come off the bench and made him receive significant bench time. He's jacked up shots, he's stopped ball movement, and he's late on defensive assignments.. Yet in your eyes, it's not his fault, but Bruce's and because other players.

Brandon makes a ton of freshman mistakes, talented or not. I just don't see how you can not see that. I like him and I agree that he is a very rare talent, but he's not absent from having a typical inconsistent freshman year like most freshman in the nation.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:34 PM   #1670
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

God, I love DJ Richardson.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:31 PM   #1671
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Better late then never, congratulations to Deron Williams for finally making the Western Conference All-Star team.


I can't wait to see him and Rose on the court at the same time (hopefully).
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:23 PM   #1672
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

DMac's the man!
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:45 PM   #1673
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=293360228

Don't have short term memory loss...

-Smak
It is absolutely hilarious that you bring up that game as an example that Demetri McCamey isn't a point guard. He didn't score but was in total control of the game when he was on the court.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:48 PM   #1674
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
lol, are you serious? I dunno... I kinda want to be like "How old are you, where do you live, what makes you the 'perfect Illini fan'?" But I'm not gonna go there because I could just as easily pull the also ambiguous "You don't really know bball!" card. Get out of here with both of those. It's insulting and very childish.

Talent wins basketball games. These days, you can't really have a team that is 'good' without players that can be a threat at every position. The team of Tizzy, Mike Davis, Brandon Paul, DJ, and McCamey is a no brainer for a starting lineup.

I'm gonna break it down for you like I told my boy. If you go out and pick up a player like BP (or DJ, for that matter), you gotta give them PT. I can't imagine Bruce sold it to him that he was going to be coming off the bench behind Bill Cole.

We are underperforming... why? Maybe we should try giving one of our best talents a chance... because even when he takes a bad shot I personally believe he learns from it. McCamey has been THE SAME PLAYER and will continue to be THE SAME PLAYER. I pull out the same lame-ass comment (about being an Illini fan) to anyone who really believes McCamey is the player we need to have with the ball in his hands.

Also, BP is our best defender and the ball moves more fluidly when he's on the floor. Not as much McCamey holding it... I dunno, I'll let you guys go and do whatever you think it is being Illini fans, but I just wanted to say all this.

It's funny to imagine someone would be insulting me for saying we should give our best prospect as much time as possible in what is shaping up to be a NON NCAA season.

Peace

-Smak
Talent alone doesn't win games. You have to do the right things on the court. I could not agree more that BP3 is the most talented player we have, but he's shooting 35% from the floor, makes bad decisions with the ball and doesn't defend well. Unless a guy is a one-and-done guy capable of boosting a team up by two or three levels by himself, I agree with making freshmen earn it. If you play Brandon Paul 35 minutes a game right now, he isn't learning to do the right things and he doesn't get better. He doesn't learn what a good shot is. He doesn't learn to value the ball. The message is sent to him that it's OK to break off from the offense and take whatever shot he wants, that it's OK to lose track of your guy defensively, that he doesn't have to value possession of the basketball.

He doesn't play smart basketball yet. He does things that hurt the team. And if we go by your plan, he never learns that those things are unacceptable. I disagree with a lot of things that Bruce Weber does, but he isn't wrong in how he handles Brandon Paul. It worked with McCamey (I know you disagree with that, but you're wildly wrong) and it will work with Brandon. He'll be one of the 10-15 best players in the conference next year and one of the best players in the country as a junior.

And McCamey is the same player he's always been? Not a point guard?

Seriously, are you doing a bit? Is this schtick? There is no way you really believe these things if you're watching the games. If you do, you're a moron.

Last edited by TheGame414 : 01-30-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:58 PM   #1675
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
lol, I'm sorry you are questioning my fan-hood. As if it can be so easily defined...

I am hype for Brandon Paul because we don't usually get great players like him. Deron... and then who? You gotta go way back to think of anyone who was as good as BP.

I'm sorry you guys don't see it, but the team plays better when BP is on the floor and McCamey is killing us by being the primary ball handler. We don't have a PG and we don't have anyone (except McCamey and Paul) that can consistently break down defenses... so we are struggling. Wait til next year.

-Smak
There was a time when guys like Brandon Paul were normal Illinois basketball recruits. You certainly seem as if you're too young to remember that, but I'm not. He's capable of being a special player but he isn't there yet. And he shouldn't be given carte blanche to do stupid things just because he's talented.

If you think Demetri McCamey being the primary ball-handler is why we're struggling.....seriously, do you really think this? It's one of the only reasons we're winning the games we do win. It would be great to have more ballhandlers to help him, but we don't have them. Are you suggesting that we do?
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #1676
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Man, I typed a post so long that it logged me out.

Let me summarize:

First of all, TheGame, you need to stop judging people's intelligence overall, especially on a basketball forum. Why call people names at all? Do you think I that it makes your point more valid or are you trying to insult them into submission?

Secondly, I just want BP to have his time on the court to develop. He isn't hurting the team as you make it seem. Part of his learning process is also having real game action (time that matters...) He may as well get it this year instead of next year when we have a legit chance to go deep.

I am not hating on anyone on the Illini roster. I'm just disagreeing with Bruce's rotations. We have a lot of talent, and I think our talent should play. Mike Davis should not be fading into obscurity, either... no matter how he's playing. He's our best big, he will come around.

I don't want to argue the McCamey thing anymore, but I will say this. He wasn't ever our PG until this year. We got smashed in the tourney without Chester because we didn't have another PG. Vs Missouri, our lack of ball handling also was apparent. I like McCamey and he is by far our most talented offensive player. I thought he had a chance at the NBA as a Fr, and I still do. He's definitely a stud. But I don't really know if I trust him as 'our leader.' Do you?

I'd say since the Flying Illini, we haven't had a player like BP.

It seems almost everything I have said has been skewed and misinterpreted. I wonder why? Maybe because I'm 'new.' As I said, I'll take the hint and stop posting... I figured that having an Illini thread was a godsend because I can never get enough discussion. But I'll save it for real life.

When I said short term memory loss... I was speaking about BP's potential... not about McCamey. I am not HATING on anyone... just hyping BP because I see what's there. And yes, his confidence is effectively crushed. Good thing he can still go out and hustle and grab 6 reb in 11 minutes.

Lastly, I never said I was old... I'm only 26. But growing up in C-U I have definitely followed the Illini from Kiwane Garris on... and we've not had a player like BP since then. That's been a pretty freaking long time. Not to say BP is our most talented player since then, but nobody of his 'mold.'

-Smak
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:42 PM   #1677
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Man, I typed a post so long that it logged me out.

Let me summarize:

First of all, TheGame, you need to stop judging people's intelligence overall, especially on a basketball forum. Why call people names at all? Do you think I that it makes your point more valid or are you trying to insult them into submission?
I only do it as a last resort. If you really think Demetri McCamey is hurting this team, I don't know what to tell you. He's the only thing keeping this team alive most of the time. Look at what happens when he leaves the floor.

Quote:
Secondly, I just want BP to have his time on the court to develop. He isn't hurting the team as you make it seem. Part of his learning process is also having real game action (time that matters...) He may as well get it this year instead of next year when we have a legit chance to go deep.
I want him to get it, too. But he needs to earn it. This isn't just practice time for Brandon Paul's future. You say it's time that matters? You're damn right. There are games to be won right now regardless of what next year or the next promises. And if Brandon Paul's not helping the team, he can't be on the court. Is he more talented than Bill Cole? By a goddamn mile. But Bill Cole, despite his limitations, is helping the team right now. It's not like Brandon's being tethered to the bench. He's constantly being given opportunities and unfortunately is doing too many bad things right now. He fouled out in, what, 15 minutes against Penn State? And with stupid, stupid fouls. He again took too many bad shots against Indiana.

I love the kid. But sheer volume of playing time isn't how you develop a player. You can't reward bad habits and silly mistakes just because a kid has talent. Brandon Paul's going to be better for how he's being coached, not worse.

Quote:
I am not hating on anyone on the Illini roster. I'm just disagreeing with Bruce's rotations. We have a lot of talent, and I think our talent should play. Mike Davis should not be fading into obscurity, either... no matter how he's playing. He's our best big, he will come around.
Again, I disagree with a lot of what Weber does. But the more I think about it, he's handling the rotation the right way. I think the same things you're saying during the games, but when I set my emotion aside....I mean, Mike Davis is playing like a b-tch. And just like Brandon, he's gotta earn it back too.

It isn't all about talent.

Quote:
I don't want to argue the McCamey thing anymore
I wouldn't want to either if I was you. You're on the wrong side of it.

Quote:
but I will say this. He wasn't ever our PG until this year. We got smashed in the tourney without Chester because we didn't have another PG. Vs Missouri, our lack of ball handling also was apparent.
Again, it's not because Demetri is a bad ballhandler or not a point guard. It's because of the lack of other ballhandlers. Demetri was a point guard last year; he was just on a team that had two of them, and if you want to count Trent Meacham, than three. D.J. and Brandon? They're shooting guards. I think both have the handle to become effective triple-threat guards in the motion, combo guards a la Luther Head, but they aren't point guards. Plus, they're freshmen. They get rattled.

The problem isn't Demetri. It's that he's the only veteran ballhandler.

Quote:
I like McCamey and he is by far our most talented offensive player. I thought he had a chance at the NBA as a Fr, and I still do. He's definitely a stud. But I don't really know if I trust him as 'our leader.' Do you?
As far as his personality? That's an entirely different question. Whether or not he's a point guard isn't up for debate, though. If you've watched him all year and reached the conclusion that he's not a point guard, you've failed at watching basketball.

And to be honest, no, Demetri doesn't come by that forceful type of personality naturally. But I think he's becoming more comfortable with it. Chester didn't really come by it naturally, either.

Quote:
I'd say since the Flying Illini, we haven't had a player like BP.
If you're talking about that specific type of high-flying shooting guard, then you're right.

Quote:
It seems almost everything I have said has been skewed and misinterpreted. I wonder why? Maybe because I'm 'new.'
It's because you said some silly things. Everyone else has done it. Lord knows I have. Look through this long-ass thread and count all the things I've been wrong about.

But yeah, when you're new and we don't know if you're really a fan or a spammer, and you say Demetri McCamey's not a point guard, among other things...being new, you haven't established the credibility that you're a knowledgable fan who might have a legit point to make. I'm not saying you're not a knowledgable fan because you clearly are. I'm just saying we don't know you and you came in with some pretty strong stuff.

Quote:
As I said, I'll take the hint and stop posting... I figured that having an Illini thread was a godsend because I can never get enough discussion. But I'll save it for real life.
I can't speak for anyone else but I'm happy to have you here. Don't take anyone's disagreement as a sign you should leave; I get a little animated when I strongly disagree with something but you clearly know your Illini hoops. Sorry if you interpreted it that way but I'd be disappointed if you left.

Quote:
When I said short term memory loss... I was speaking about BP's potential... not about McCamey. I am not HATING on anyone... just hyping BP because I see what's there. And yes, his confidence is effectively crushed. Good thing he can still go out and hustle and grab 6 reb in 11 minutes.
If his confidence is crushed it should be by his own performance, at least shooting the ball. What good does it do for his confidence to leave him out there and keep making dumb mistakes and hurt the team?

Quote:
Lastly, I never said I was old... I'm only 26. But growing up in C-U I have definitely followed the Illini from Kiwane Garris on... and we've not had a player like BP since then. That's been a pretty freaking long time. Not to say BP is our most talented player since then, but nobody of his 'mold.'
I'm also 26 and grew up here...and again, you're right, there hasn't been a guy in BP3's mold since Kendall Gill. You know what Kendall did as a freshman? Averaged 3 points per game. And I know that Brandon's a much more advanced player coming out of high school than Kendall was, so my counter to that is this: Brandon Paul is on the same career track as Kendall, only a year ahead. He's where Kendall was as a sophomore. There's no doubting the talent. But most guys need to learn how to play the right way. Some coaches will give their supremely talented freshmen carte blanche to do whatever and they never really learn. As much as I dislike about Weber at times, and as much as I disliked about Lou Henson at times, I much prefer how they actually make freshmen earn it and become complete players. And it's not like he's tethering him to the bench: he's averaging 20 minutes per game. When he's earning it, or when we really need the potential firepower he brings, he plays: 23 minutes at NW, 20 at MSU, 37 against Gonzaga, 32 at Clemson.

But he has to earn it.

If he was playing as consistently as D.J. was, he'd still be getting that type of minutes. D.J.'s getting 30 minutes a game because he's a more advanced player at this stage.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:02 AM   #1678
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

McCamey! Knock off State and lose in two weeks and maybe I won't puke every time I see that ugly orange.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:16 AM   #1679
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

Mike and Demitri had great games. Demitri is straight up beasting these days.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:23 AM   #1680
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Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

The orange is far from ugly. Great win tonight. Really fun game to watch. Those dunks from Paul and Richardson on the break were great. Probably Demetri's best performance this season and possibly of his career.
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