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Old 05-21-2008, 10:02 PM   #1
KaptnKirk12
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Default Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Michael Beasley.

He fixes the inside game that all great teams have had. I hear you on great point guard play, but look at the Celtics, they have turned a bench warmer into an average point guard playing with Pierce and KG. I am not going to say Ray, because Playoffs he has been a joke. Anyway, drafting Beasley we will win right away because he is a 20/10 guy already - or very close to it. He will open up the outside because he will draw attention, possibly double teams against some lesser teams.

Which brings me to the next point - Michael Redd is rumored to being shopped. Hey what a great fit, we won 6 rings with one Michael, lets see what we do with 2 of them.

Bucks get:
Tyrus Thomas, Larry Hughes, future 2nd round pick/picks. Throw Cedric Simmions in for good measure.

Bulls get:
Michael Redd.

OR

Bucks get:
Sign and trade Ben Gordon for ~9 million-ish, Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmions, future 2nd round picks.

OR swap Tyrus and Simmions for Drew Gooden in both of those. (I personally don't like that, but it works, just a thought)

Resign Luol Deng to a 10 million contract or so.
Possibly resign Duhon to 3.5 or what ever he makes.
-Ben Gordon would be a toss up, let him go if he is being unreasonable, but if you can get him back for 8-9 million then take it. Throw him in the mix with Redd, Beasley, and Hinrich you will have offense all over.

Hinrich/Duhon
Redd/Thabo
Deng/Nocioni
Beasley/Gooden
Noah/Gray

-You have a go to scorer in Beasley down low. You have a lights out shooter in Redd, more consistant than Gordon. And you have Hinrich, with not nearly as much pressure on him to do much. Redd can guard the bigger guard because he is a solid defensive player. Deng will get better looks due to Beasley down low, and Redd on the outside. Noah, well he can rebound I guess.

Derrick Rose.

Guards run the league - taking him would improve the back court a ton. He is a Chicago Legend already, home town hero comes home. He'd be imbraced...and have a ton of pressure put on him. Wait, he buckled under pressure in the Championship game. I like him, but I like Beasley better - Beasley put up huge stats without any help, so you know he can play with the best of them. Rose was surrounded by NBA talent already, which could of made him look better. If he impresses the Bulls in workouts then take him, he is going to be a good NBA player for years to come.

Denver gets:
Ben Gordon (resigned up to 9 million), Cedric Simmons, future 2nd round picks and/or JamesOn Curry.
-Take Simmons out and throw in Tyrus if has to be done.

Bulls get:
Nene Hilario
Taurean Green

Rose/Hinrich-Green
Hinrich/Hughes/Thabo
Deng/Nocioni/Thabo
Gooden/Nene
Noah/Gray

I don't know if that trade makes us any better overall, but it gives us bigger size.

There is also that Elton Brand deal that has been mentioned.

Using Hinrich as main bait, throw that at the Clippers to have a starting lineup of...

Rose
Hughes
Deng
Brand
Noah

Very good line up. Can't argue with it...but I really seem to like my first mentioned line up. Beacause I think Beasley will be better than Brand, and having Redd on the team, and Deng, Hinrich isn't going to have to work. If Rondo gets that much better with KG and Ray Ray, what will happen to Kirk with Redd, Deng, and Beasley with him. And getting Redd, a lot more realistic than getting Elton Brand, who is comming off an injury I might add.
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

very good post and scenarios u have....I think ur first lineup has more firepower...I just think we should draft rose based on the way the league is being dominated now....it seems like we were gonna shop hinrich anyways...I like beasley but he doesn't pass the ball and tries to go one on five...u can build around rose and trade hinrich..noce...Hughes..and get jermaine oneal or try a sign and trade with Gordon to get brand back..
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

the only thing that sucks is hinrich doesnt have the right potential to play the two guard... hes average if not undersized and hes shooting just over 40 percent from the field... we could do better than that
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaNt Be ToUcHeD
the only thing that sucks is hinrich doesnt have the right potential to play the two guard... hes average if not undersized and hes shooting just over 40 percent from the field... we could do better than that

Hinrich is a combo guard. If he didn't have to worry about bringing the ball up and setting the offense up, it would take a lot of pressure off of him and he would be getting better looks. He can shoot - he showed it at Kansas, hell he has showed it his whole Bulls career except last season.

Also I like the first option better if we were able to get it. Michael Redd - Luol Deng - Michael Beasley - Kirk Hinrich ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:37 AM   #5
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Post Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptnKirk12
Denver gets:
Ben Gordon (resigned up to 9 million), Cedric Simmons, future 2nd round picks and/or JamesOn Curry.
-Take Simmons out and throw in Tyrus if has to be done.

Bulls get:
Nene Hilario
Taurean Green

Rose/Hinrich-Green
Hinrich/Hughes/Thabo
Deng/Nocioni/Thabo
Gooden/Nene
Noah/Gray

I don't know if that trade makes us any better overall, but it gives us bigger size.

If you agree that the trade doesn't make us better, then why would the Bulls even consider it? I doubt the Nuggets would even listen to that trade. Once Paxson mentions Ben Gordon, they would probably hang up the phone. They already have their small chucker in AI, Simmons would be a backup, I wouldn't even consider trading TT alone for those two, and Curry is basically JR Smith. This one isn't happening.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

if you guys go with rose... this might happen since the bucks is trying to shop for redd and charlie v... go take both...

redd and charlie v

for

gordon thomas hughes and 2nd round picks... sounds fair to me.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
redd and charlie v

for

gordon thomas hughes and 2nd round picks... sounds fair to me.

Done. But would they make that trade?
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

redd is not worth the money, he has a ridiculous contract like 5 yr 48 mill or something like that, he's not worth it!

for like the 5th time, trade luol for charlie vee and the #8 pick, with someone like kevin love, darrell arthur, deandre jordan, even a mareese speights will be available, at least three of those guys will be available by pick #8, than you can trade hinrich to miami for dorell wright and there 2nd round pick which is really a late 1st rounder and get someone possibly like CDR, sasha kahn etc. this is a very deep class, its so deep teams are gonna grab players that weren't drafted and theyll make rosters, you plug in noc as the starting sf (who style is different from deng but puts up identical #'s given the same minutes) and dorell wright can back up noc, charlie vee is gonna thrive with rose in the back court at 6'11 athletic pf who can stroke it outside or that can penetrate and thread a no looker to a streaking tyrus, and these players will play CHEAP!

with that being said, there is no question we're drafting rose, i don't care what the media says what pax says, PAX IS DRAFTING ROSE! no doubt about it! he just doesn't want to flat out say it cuz thats not his JOB! during paxs first draft with the bulls as gm, there was a young fellow named dwayne wade that the bulls were supposed to get at #7 everybody and there mommas knew about it, pax didn't feel the urge to trade up cuz there were other players in the draft by the names of james, melo, bosh, dorko, kaman, hinrich, etc. at the time hinrich was the best pg available and was projected from #4 to #7, miami which had the #5 pick at the time needed a C, and pg bad that year, and riley let it be known he was looking hard at kaman, and hinrich, riley brought in kaman/hinrich to work out 3 times, and wade only once while the bulls brought in wade 3 times, EVERYBODY thought riley was grabbin kaman, than pick #5 came and surprise surprise miami picks dwayne wade! paxson was stunned! after the draft riley did a interview and admitted they were eyeing dwayne wade the whole time since the lottery order was selected and there was no question they were drafting wade and that they felt they got a very very special player in wade

all in all, riley schooled pax in his first year and tought pax a good valuable lesson in drafting, predrafts is all about deception to gain a competitive advantage

this is payback time for pax, he's not going to admit who he's taking, but don't be surprised if media reports pax is leaning towards beasley, cuz then draft day comes he's grabbin rose with out question.

how many good/great pfs are avialable as free agents every year? at least one or two every year, what about good/great pgs? maybe once every other year, or every three years, franchise pgs don't come around that often, and if they do, they are locked up, look at deron, and paul they will more than likely finish there careers with who there with, while big name pf's are always talked about in trades/free agents

pax is drafting rose no ifs and buts about it!
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Only issues with your senerio WadeoverLebron is the fact that Deng is a restricted FA, which means for us to keep him, we are going to have to either make him happy or match any offer he gets to keep him. Probably around 10 million a year.

Charlie V and the 8th pick is only going to be about 5 million. There is a 5 million dollar gap there that would have to be made up to make that work. They would have to send us Andrew Bogut to make it work. And Bogut, Charlie and the 8th pick isn't worth it for Luol Deng.

As for Hinrich for Wright and a early 2nd rounder. That wouldn't work either. There is going to be atleast like 8 million dollar gap that Miami would have to throw at us to make it work. And Wright is a FA, restricted or not I have no idea - but still a huge gap. Mark Blount or Ricky Davis added to that might make it work. But even then neither one of those players would likely crack the line up if they didn't just get dumped right away.

Rose
CDR
Nocioni
Arthur
Noah

I really do like that lineup, just the money figures don't work out - we could probably pull off the trade with Miami to get the early 2nd rounder to pick up CDR since they are going to want Hinrich if we take Rose. And only giving up Wright, the pick, and Mark Blount wouldn't be a huge loss to them, they'd get a lot better with that.

Hinrich
Wade
Marrion
Haslem
Beasley

Great job Chicago, you just made a monster. To bad D'Antioni didn't go to Miami, that team would rip in an open floor game. Then you have Hinrich, Wade, and Marrion on defense...wow.

Sorry, but do you really want to play that team? They are in the East you know.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:55 PM   #10
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Post Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptnKirk12
Only issues with your senerio WadeoverLebron is the fact that Deng is a restricted FA, which means for us to keep him, we are going to have to either make him happy or match any offer he gets to keep him. Probably around 10 million a year.

Charlie V and the 8th pick is only going to be about 5 million. There is a 5 million dollar gap there that would have to be made up to make that work. They would have to send us Andrew Bogut to make it work. And Bogut, Charlie and the 8th pick isn't worth it for Luol Deng.

As for Hinrich for Wright and a early 2nd rounder. That wouldn't work either. There is going to be atleast like 8 million dollar gap that Miami would have to throw at us to make it work. And Wright is a FA, restricted or not I have no idea - but still a huge gap. Mark Blount or Ricky Davis added to that might make it work. But even then neither one of those players would likely crack the line up if they didn't just get dumped right away.

Rose
CDR
Nocioni
Arthur
Noah

I really do like that lineup, just the money figures don't work out - we could probably pull off the trade with Miami to get the early 2nd rounder to pick up CDR since they are going to want Hinrich if we take Rose. And only giving up Wright, the pick, and Mark Blount wouldn't be a huge loss to them, they'd get a lot better with that.

First off, I really doubt CDR will be available early in the second round. He will go 20-25, maybe even higher once teams get him in for workouts.

Second, trading Hinrich for a scrub and a second rounder is in no way equal value. I would much rather have Kirk playing for us than add two more mediocre players.

Third, you only need to match salaries if the teams are over the salary cap. Both the Bulls and the Bucks will be under the cap, so we would just end up getting a trade exemption. I'm not a big Charlie V fan. He doesn't offer much on the defensive end, and shoots about 30% on 3-pointers. Plus, Charlie can't play SF, and you are talking about drafting another big man with the 8th pick. We have way too many big guys already to take on two more.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

I've said it at least once already in the past couple days, and I'll say it again: the gap between Hinrich and Rose is not as big as the gap between Beasley and Gooden. You can't go wrong with either Beasley or Rose, so why not draft the one that improves your team more?
Forget the fact that Rose is a Chicago native.. was Jordan? No, but we love him and won with him anyway. What about Tyson Chandler or Eddy Curry.. I forget which of them was a Chicago legend, but last I checked neither one was loved by our fans, and we gladly got rid of both.
The fact that he's a Chicago native has nothing to do with Rose's value as a player. Yes, Rose is good, but so is Hinrich. I assume, as most do, that Rose will be far better than Hinrich, but Kirk is still a legit starter in this league... Gooden is only a starter if he's alongside another beast in the post, and he isn't, so he shouldn't be starting.
Paxson, please finally solve our post problems, please finally get a guy that can be a go-to scorer and will open up the court by being double and triple teamed, and please get an exciting athlete that will bring people to their feet! And please do that all with one player, Michael Beasley. Don't opt for the sentimental pick, but the winning (for our team) pick.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

paxson is getting rose, it doesn't matter what us fans want or think, and as far as gaps, that just shows you hinrich is still a valuable player and you can still get good value for him if you dangle him as trade bait and land that low block scorer

lets just talk about how we should build around rose

your exactly right, it shouldnt be about where a players from, and it should be all about how much they can help winning a championship, beasley will get 20-10, but like i stated earlier, when a sure shot franchise pg comes around you gotta grab him and lock him up, 20-10 or 18-8 guys are always in trade talks/free agent market every year, i love beasley, if he would've came out after his senior yr last yr i would've picked beasley over oden and durant, but that just shows you how much of a player i think rose can become, i don't care if he's from cambodia, tha kid is sick!

Last edited by DwadeOverLebron : 05-22-2008 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulls_Fan20
First off, I really doubt CDR will be available early in the second round. He will go 20-25, maybe even higher once teams get him in for workouts.

Second, trading Hinrich for a scrub and a second rounder is in no way equal value. I would much rather have Kirk playing for us than add two more mediocre players.

Third, you only need to match salaries if the teams are over the salary cap. Both the Bulls and the Bucks will be under the cap, so we would just end up getting a trade exemption. I'm not a big Charlie V fan. He doesn't offer much on the defensive end, and shoots about 30% on 3-pointers. Plus, Charlie can't play SF, and you are talking about drafting another big man with the 8th pick. We have way too many big guys already to take on two more.

First off, I didn't bring up the CDR pick, WadeoverLebron did.

Second off, I don't want Kirk going anywhere.

Third, Chicago WILL be over the cap once they resign Luol Deng.

I was showing WadeoverLebron how his trade senerio WOULD work, because Hinrich for Wright and an 2nd rounder WOULDN'T work. But Hinrich for Wright, Davis or Blount and the 2nd rounder, WOULD work.

I agree with what you said completly, I think CDR is a late first round pick, no way he reaches the 2nd round, but WadeoverLebron had mentioned it, and really it's not a far fetched idea at this point.

I think trading Hinrich is a dumb move unless Chicago is going to bring in an All-Star. Hinrich was the start of the rebuilding process for the Bulls - I don't see why you would want to trade away a player like him - he does it all. And the fact Steve Nash has said he sees a lot of himself in Hinrich...what else do you want from your point guard? When a 2 time MVP says that of your point guard, he isn't an issue.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwadeOverLebron
paxson is getting rose, it doesn't matter what us fans want or think, and as far as gaps, that just shows you hinrich is still a valuable player and you can still get good value for him if you dangle him as trade bait and land that low block scorer

lets just talk about how we should build around rose

your exactly right, it shouldnt be about where a players from, and it should be all about how much they can help winning a championship, beasley will get 20-10, but like i stated earlier, when a sure shot franchise pg comes around you gotta grab him and lock him up, 20-10 or 18-8 guys are always in trade talks/free agent market every year, i love beasley, if he would've came out after his senior yr last yr i would've picked beasley over oden and durant, but that just shows you how much of a player i think rose can become, i don't care if he's from cambodia, tha kid is sick!

Just a question. How much of Rose have you seen? Compared to how much Beasley you have seen?

Beasley...was never really slowed down in college. Rose was. And while Memphis might of played the better non-conference teams, inside the conference Memphis had a cake walk. Beasley was going up against Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, Texas A&M.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

I am fine with picking Rose if we trade Hinrich. But as long as Kirk is on our roster and in our future plans, our pick should be Beasley. I don't see Kirk and Rose coexisting nearly as well as Kirk and Beasley. That is my main complaint; many people want to see Kirk play the two. He is a good PG in the NBA, so why draft a PG AND keep him? If you draft Rose, fine with me, but you better get rid of Kirk. Otherwise it's like the Steelers, Giants, or another NFL team with a good, young Qb drafting a QB in the first round.
Sure, that guy might be better, but why not fill OTHER holes when you already have a more-than-serviceable guy at that current spot?
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