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Old 05-22-2008, 05:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

draft beasly, keep hinrich(ino kirk had a bad year this year but every1 does. he really not that bad as a pg and beasly will give u a BIG inside threat)
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshutts1
I am fine with picking Rose if we trade Hinrich. But as long as Kirk is on our roster and in our future plans, our pick should be Beasley. I don't see Kirk and Rose coexisting nearly as well as Kirk and Beasley. That is my main complaint; many people want to see Kirk play the two. He is a good PG in the NBA, so why draft a PG AND keep him? If you draft Rose, fine with me, but you better get rid of Kirk. Otherwise it's like the Steelers, Giants, or another NFL team with a good, young Qb drafting a QB in the first round.
Sure, that guy might be better, but why not fill OTHER holes when you already have a more-than-serviceable guy at that current spot?

Well said. But as for me, I am not as fine with picking Rose. Beasley is the better talent, and gives us the better shot at winning...RIGHT NOW. That is what we want and need because of last season.

And as for needing a great point guard to go all the way is a joke. Who did Chicago have when they won 6?

From the year 2000-2007 - 5 out of 8 have been big men. 2 have been point guards in Billups and Parker. And this year, it's not going to be Rondo or Fisher. So unless Billups or Parker can step up again, look for it to be yet again not a point guard.

What great point guard has taken his team to the Finals and won? Now what great point guard has taken his team to the Finals and won without a solid big man inside?

Who says Hinrich, Deng, and Beasley can't take Chicago anywhere?
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

We seem to agree, CaptKirk. I agree that a great PG makes it much easier for everyone else, but for our team Beasley is the better fit, and it's pretty apparent that he's the better overall talent. I hope to God Paxson makes that decision, too.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

best thing would be to draft rose,trade hinrich,gordon, or hughes try and get milwaulkees #8 pick and charlie v from them or trade one of the 3 along with thomas,gooden, or noah along with a 2nd round pick and get a dominate big man!
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baller42590
best thing would be to draft rose,trade hinrich,gordon, or hughes try and get milwaulkees #8 pick and charlie v from them

i like this idea alot because it will take too much to get any pick much higher... it seems like paxson tried to rebuild the team and didn't quite get it, he ended up with too many average players that will most likely end up being in the first round, but never getting past the second...

in my opinion, we go for rose and trade hinrich + whoever except thomas (because i think he could gel with rose, otherwise ship him out too) and deng and start rebuilding again, this time going for the most elite players to get a better core of rose and deng, and whatever we can get with an 8th pick
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

on top of my last post, trading to the knicks could be an option, everybody thought gordon would fit into the sun's system well when d'antoni coached, and now hes with the knicks, the only problem is jamal crawford is there main sg, but who knows theres usually a way to work these things out
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneykm
Done. But would they make that trade?

Couple problems with that deal- 1.) The Bucks would want a substantially larger package for both Villanueva and Redd; 2.) The money doesn't work out in that deal and 3.) It really doesn't make us that much better-

A more realistic proposal would be sending Milwaukee a Skiles fav in Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas in exchange for Michael Redd and Charlie Bell. In this scenario draft Michael Beasley is a no brainer and sets our line-up to something along the lines of:

Hinrich/Bell
Redd/Thabo
Deng/Free Agent (James Posey comes to mind- maybe a Devean George?)
Beasley/Gooden
Noah/Gray

A far superior offensive team from what we've had in the past.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshutts1
We seem to agree, CaptKirk. I agree that a great PG makes it much easier for everyone else, but for our team Beasley is the better fit, and it's pretty apparent that he's the better overall talent. I hope to God Paxson makes that decision, too.

I tend to agree with this frame of mind as well- however the overall theme of the thread (IMO) is that either would be an excellent pick- it really depends heavily on what Pax can get to fill the other need (i.e. would trading Hinrich for a Big net a better player than would dealing Gooden/Thomas for a guard?) Hard to say at this point. Hinrich's contract is appealing to alot of teams due to Pax frontloading the deal- Hinrich is actually due only 36.5M over the next four years- with only 17M due over the final two years- a team like the Clippers or (gulp) the Knicks would love to get their hands on a player like Hinrich with a desending contract attached.

Point is, this is a rare 'Win-win' situation we find ourselves in- strap yourselves in kido's this is gunna be alot of fun
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABTY7
Couple problems with that deal- 1.) The Bucks would want a substantially larger package for both Villanueva and Redd; 2.) The money doesn't work out in that deal and 3.) It really doesn't make us that much better-

A more realistic proposal would be sending Milwaukee a Skiles fav in Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas in exchange for Michael Redd and Charlie Bell. In this scenario draft Michael Beasley is a no brainer and sets our line-up to something along the lines of:

Hinrich/Bell
Redd/Thabo
Deng/Free Agent (James Posey comes to mind- maybe a Devean George?)
Beasley/Gooden
Noah/Gray

A far superior offensive team from what we've had in the past.


we dont want redd hes old and too expensive... we want charlie v and their 8th pick
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Beasley seems to be a better fit but if you'll look at the recent trend, guards are the ones that brings a struggling team back to life. Paul, Deron, Roy. This league has turned into a guard league. David Stern loves players that drives to the basket.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:18 AM   #26
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaNt Be ToUcHeD
we dont want redd hes old and too expensive... we want charlie v and their 8th pick

Why exactly do 'we' want Villanueva and the 8? Outside of Rose and Beasley, there is no one single player (even more so at the 8 spot) that is a complete project. Bayless, Mayo, Gordon - all combo guards with their own set of limitations (not to mention sans Mayo, they all project to be Ben Gordon)- and the bigs that will most likely be available (Jordan, Love, McGee, Robin Lopez, Arthur, etc.) are all either major projects (i.e. Tyrus Thomas anyone?) or undersized (Love at the 5, Arthur at the 4)- there really is no reason to trade back into this draft unless by the hand of god Pat Riley has suddenly become senile enough to deal us the 2 for a combination of Hinrich, Thomas, Nocioni and 2 future 1st rounders.

Villanueva is being shopped mainly due to his work ethic and inability to play consistent defense- not exact qualities we should be looking for.

As for Redd- 1.) he's only 28 years old (same as Kobe- younger than Allen, Garnett, Hamilton, Billups, etc.) 2.) Hard to hate on 22+ pts per night and 3.) With an almost 40% 3p% for his career, Redd would be amazing with a guy like Beasley- Beasley is an above average passer and when playing in the post he can wait for the double to collapse on him then dish out to Redd ala West/Paja or even Duncan/Manu- it's just a deadly combination. I will say this though- hard to argue his contract is a hard pill to shallow- however as I said before, Hinrich's deal decreases in value over the life of the contract, and the core of our team (Noah, Beasley and even Thabo) wouldn't be up for extensions until after Redd contract was expired anyhow. The fact of the matter is a line-up of Hinrich, Redd, Deng, Beasley and Noah with Gooden, Thabo, a key Mid-Level FA like Posey, Charlie Bell and Gray would be at the very least a top 4 team in the East with a very good chance to be much better than that considering the age of the Power 2 teams in the conference and the fact that the Cleveland LeBron's are really a one man team at this point.

Going off of career averages and giving Beasley a modest projection- that team would average about 102 pts. per game. Now that isn't likely, however it isn't impossible. That would easily be the best offensive team we've put out since Jesus was playing the 2 for us...
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:41 AM   #27
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABTY7
Why exactly do 'we' want Villanueva and the 8? Outside of Rose and Beasley, there is no one single player (even more so at the 8 spot) that is a complete project. Bayless, Mayo, Gordon - all combo guards with their own set of limitations (not to mention sans Mayo, they all project to be Ben Gordon)- and the bigs that will most likely be available (Jordan, Love, McGee, Robin Lopez, Arthur, etc.) are all either major projects (i.e. Tyrus Thomas anyone?) or undersized (Love at the 5, Arthur at the 4)- there really is no reason to trade back into this draft unless by the hand of god Pat Riley has suddenly become senile enough to deal us the 2 for a combination of Hinrich, Thomas, Nocioni and 2 future 1st rounders.

Villanueva is being shopped mainly due to his work ethic and inability to play consistent defense- not exact qualities we should be looking for.

As for Redd- 1.) he's only 28 years old (same as Kobe- younger than Allen, Garnett, Hamilton, Billups, etc.) 2.) Hard to hate on 22+ pts per night and 3.) With an almost 40% 3p% for his career, Redd would be amazing with a guy like Beasley- Beasley is an above average passer and when playing in the post he can wait for the double to collapse on him then dish out to Redd ala West/Paja or even Duncan/Manu- it's just a deadly combination. I will say this though- hard to argue his contract is a hard pill to shallow- however as I said before, Hinrich's deal decreases in value over the life of the contract, and the core of our team (Noah, Beasley and even Thabo) wouldn't be up for extensions until after Redd contract was expired anyhow. The fact of the matter is a line-up of Hinrich, Redd, Deng, Beasley and Noah with Gooden, Thabo, a key Mid-Level FA like Posey, Charlie Bell and Gray would be at the very least a top 4 team in the East with a very good chance to be much better than that considering the age of the Power 2 teams in the conference and the fact that the Cleveland LeBron's are really a one man team at this point.

Going off of career averages and giving Beasley a modest projection- that team would average about 102 pts. per game. Now that isn't likely, however it isn't impossible. That would easily be the best offensive team we've put out since Jesus was playing the 2 for us...

im not the one who proposed it some did up there ^^^^

i was just clarifying
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABTY7
Couple problems with that deal- 1.) The Bucks would want a substantially larger package for both Villanueva and Redd; 2.) The money doesn't work out in that deal and 3.) It really doesn't make us that much better-

A more realistic proposal would be sending Milwaukee a Skiles fav in Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas in exchange for Michael Redd and Charlie Bell. In this scenario draft Michael Beasley is a no brainer and sets our line-up to something along the lines of:

Hinrich/Bell
Redd/Thabo
Deng/Free Agent (James Posey comes to mind- maybe a Devean George?)
Beasley/Gooden
Noah/Gray

A far superior offensive team from what we've had in the past.

I like it. Seems we have similar mind sets, it'd be easier to build off a Beasley pick than a Rose. And if you look at the incomming classes, they are filled with great guards - not so many Michael Beasley's in those classes.

I like how the back up point guard spot filled by Bell, he is a solid player, but instead of filling the 3 spot with a free agent like the HATED James Posey, why not try to swap 2nd round picks. Give them our next years pick for their 2nd rounder this year, since I don't think we have a 2nd rounder this year.

Maybe Bill Walker could fall into our lap? Beasley and Walker...
JR Giddens comes to mind who is a freak in the open floor and would provide solid offense off the bench. Or a guy like Richard Roby who could of been a late first rounder if he would of came out after his freshmen or sophmore season - but chose to stay, he has solid expierence. Even though those 3 guys are more of just really tall and athletic 2 guards, they could easily fill in at the 3 due to their speed and quickness - it'd be a nice change up from Deng who is more of the spot up shooter - you'd have a slasher who wouldn't just settle for jumpers.

And as you said, either way it's a win-win, but Pax is still going to have to do some work after the pick, if that be get a low post guy if you draft Rose, or get a taller shooting guard if you draft Beasley.
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

lets say pax drafts beasley which is not goin to happen, but lets say he does, its still a excellent pick, and he gives you 20-10... but those are just stat #'s, so the question is... is beasley gonna give you a chance to win a close game vs the likes of boston, detroit, orlando etc.??? beasleys not that great of a passer becuz he never really had to be... he often scored while double teamed... which he won't do in the nba, also i've been a huge fan of beasley and big 12 bball and it has been my favorite conference the last 2 years... sorry big 10! so i've watched him play about 10 times and i also found out that beasleys been kicked out of 3 different schools and has attended 7 different schools since the 7th grade! he isn't considered arrogant but people will say he's a little to confident which can turn into arrogence with a couple of million dollars

while rose is a gym rat/film guy, and studies the game and i wasn't high on rose during the regular season, but what he did in the tourney was ridiculous and catapulted him as a elite pg, he has great footwork at 19, i've heard people compare him to jason kidd with a jumpshot, or a explosive deron williams, i think he's more of a dwayne wade thats 2 inches shorter, you simply cannot pass on a talent like this, if pax does draft beasley... three years are gonna fly by and miami will prolly be on top of the east while stuart scott starts screaming PAX WHAT WAS YOU THINKEN 3 YEARS AGO, while beasleys opting out of his contract to play for NY

PAX IS DRAFTING ROSE whether you like it or not
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Senerios for Beasley, and Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptnKirk12
I like it. Seems we have similar mind sets, it'd be easier to build off a Beasley pick than a Rose. And if you look at the incomming classes, they are filled with great guards - not so many Michael Beasley's in those classes.

I like how the back up point guard spot filled by Bell, he is a solid player, but instead of filling the 3 spot with a free agent like the HATED James Posey, why not try to swap 2nd round picks. Give them our next years pick for their 2nd rounder this year, since I don't think we have a 2nd rounder this year.

Maybe Bill Walker could fall into our lap? Beasley and Walker...
JR Giddens comes to mind who is a freak in the open floor and would provide solid offense off the bench. Or a guy like Richard Roby who could of been a late first rounder if he would of came out after his freshmen or sophmore season - but chose to stay, he has solid expierence. Even though those 3 guys are more of just really tall and athletic 2 guards, they could easily fill in at the 3 due to their speed and quickness - it'd be a nice change up from Deng who is more of the spot up shooter - you'd have a slasher who wouldn't just settle for jumpers.

And as you said, either way it's a win-win, but Pax is still going to have to do some work after the pick, if that be get a low post guy if you draft Rose, or get a taller shooting guard if you draft Beasley.

Solid ideas- From the reports I've been reading, Bill Walker has lost about 15 lbs and is in the best shape of his life- he's skipping the Orlando camp and trying to line himself up against the other top 3's in the draft (Alexnader, Roberts-Douglas)- I wouldn't be the least bt surprized if he has able to climb upto a mid-late 1st rounder- although Roby would be a solid pick as well...

Another idea- we could always trade a conditional 1st rounder to Utah for Kyle Korver- with Harpering coming back and Kirilenko and his contract arn't going anywhere anytime soon. Deng/Korver would be amazing, however unlikely it may be...
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