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Old 06-05-2008, 06:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Hibbert averaged over 6 rebounds per game and only played 26 minutes per game. That is 10 rebounds per game in a 40 minute game. Also, look at the NBATV analysis. The guy said he didn't get many touches yet he still was the highest scorer on the team. I am telling you now, he is underrated by the public but not the GM's. He did get better, but his team did not. He is going early, don't be fooled. The college game is not conducive to very big men. JJ Reddick was one of the best college players two years ago, and now he is doing nothing.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
Hibbert averaged over 6 rebounds per game and only played 26 minutes per game. That is 10 rebounds per game in a 40 minute game. Also, look at the NBATV analysis. The guy said he didn't get many touches yet he still was the highest scorer on the team. I am telling you now, he is underrated by the public but not the GM's. He did get better, but his team did not. He is going early, don't be fooled. The college game is not conducive to very big men. JJ Reddick was one of the best college players two years ago, and now he is doing nothing.
kevin love got 10.6 rebounds in 29 mins
luke harongody got 10.6 in 29 mins
richard hendrix 10.1 in 30 mins
joey dorsey 9.6 in 26 mins
blake griffin 9.1 in 28 mins
dejuan blair 9.1 in 26
jj hickson 8.5 in 28 mins
even paul harris gets more boards than the guy. that doesn't mean they're 12 rebound guys per 40 mins in the nba. all those guys are no less than 4 inches shorter too. he can't rebound
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Kevin Durant averaged over 10 rebounds per game in college but only 4.4 in the pros. As I said before and I will say again, the college game and the pro game are different. The college game is biased against very big men. Every time they try to make a move, they get called for a foul. The smallish guards and forwards are at a big advantage because of the touch fouls in college. Let me ask a question, who would you like to guard Tim Duncan, Gasol, Howard, Wallace, or any of the other good big men of the NBA, Love or Hibbert? Harongody or Hibbert? Dorsey or Hibbert? Hibbert locked up Oden last year whenever it was a one on one matchup. Hibbert used Harongody when they played against each other this past college season (13 pts to 21 pts) . Dorsey had 6.9 pts per game and he played more minutes and had better guards on his team than Hibbert. The college game is made for 6'8" and 6'9" forwards and small guards, but in the pros it is rare that they make any kind of impact, although there are a few exceptions. Even those exceptions get exposed in the NBA playoffs, where there small size is a detriment to their teams (Boozer can't hold Duncan, Paul can't hold Parker, Iverson can't hold anyone). Height is still very important in the NBA and Hibbert has height and skill.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Look at the impact PJ Brown had on the 1st Celtics vs. Lakers game. PJ Brown was a well sought after player after he supposedly retired. Do you want to know why he was so in demand? Because he is a TALL, INTELLIGENT player. Sounds like Hibbert to me.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Alexander won't fall outta the lottery.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:33 AM   #21
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

One thing you need to keep in mind is that the NBA is going away from big men more and more. Of course there is going to be a place for a 7-2 player that can score, no one is saying there isn't. But the NBA is about running right now for a lot of teams. I think Hibbert can play the post and do well for some teams, but it will have to be a slower offense.

Even with that said, I think there are a ton of teams that are going to give him a long look. I think Phoenix as high as 15 will give him a look becuase they need size for their post-Shaq era and he will be able to play his rookie year. I think Philly, Toronto, Washington, Clevaland, Denver, Orlando, and Houston will all work him out and consider him for their pick.

And just to point it out, but I said about Hibbert going to Utah:
"They need some more inside size to play with the Gasol's, Bynum's, Yao's, and Duncan's in the playoffs in the near future"

That was your point. That doesn't mean teams won't pass him over for potential, though.

And I don't think comparing him to PJ Brown will make teams jump out of their seats when guys get comapared to Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, and Mehmet Okur. Again, I'm not saying Hibbert won't be a solid 15 and 7 guy in the NBA, but I just don't think teams see the dominate game or upside to draft him over guys like Koufus, Jordan, and McGee. It is just the way the draft works.

The last thing that I think kills him is that he played 4 years in college. Teams have gotten to see him play dozens of times, and for every big game he had, he had 5 games where he just didn't stand out. They see how soft he is. Plus I think he will get grouped in with other recent "brand" name college players like May, Redick, Morrison, and Noah. Right now it isn't a great time to be a 3 or 4 years player that has been the on the biggest stage and well known for years.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

D White, I pretty much agree. I think he is still on the lottery bubble, but could lock up a lottery spot with good workouts. I had him as the 15th pick well before the Orlando camp, so you can't hate on me too much because that is only 1 pick out of the lottery.

And to whoever asked, no I didn't have Gordon being drafted. I think he is a likely 2nd round pick, but I just had him slipping both times. He is a guy I find tough to spot a fit for. I think he will just be a best player available pick for someone.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

The only point we disagree on is where he will be selected. I think the GM's are hiding their intentions and will draft Hibbert higher (much higher) than the consensus 23rd pick (many "Mock Drafts" seem to think this. I read one where he will go 38th!!). I only compared him to PJ Brown to compare the effectiveness of tall players. I agree the NBA seems to like the small ball of late, but the NBA Teams are about winning, and you can't win the big one, or even get there without having a good big man (6'11" or better) that can defend or rebound. Even Jordan had one (Bill Cartwright).
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:03 AM   #24
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
The only point we disagree on is where he will be selected. I think the GM's are hiding their intentions and will draft Hibbert higher (much higher) than the consensus 23rd pick (many "Mock Drafts" seem to think this. I read one where he will go 38th!!). I only compared him to PJ Brown to compare the effectiveness of tall players. I agree the NBA seems to like the small ball of late, but the NBA Teams are about winning, and you can't win the big one, or even get there without having a good big man (6'11" or better) that can defend or rebound. Even Jordan had one (Bill Cartwright).
so what pick does he go at? he won't go before 20.I guarentee it
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Pretty damn good mock, but I don't see any way DJ White could fall almost completely out of the draft. I think he could be a late first rounder once the workouts/camps are done.
i agree. White will be a late first rounder of early 2nd....and Augustin at 20 no way...he'll be gone before that
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:43 AM   #26
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posterize246
so what pick does he go at? he won't go before 20.I guarentee it

I think he could go in the top 15, although Toronto would be ideal because they will always have to deal with Dwight Howard and Superman has had trouble with bigger centers in the past. Believe it or not, I would pick him BEFORE Kevin Love because of defensive purposes. I hate to get racial here, but caucasian centers and power forwards in the NBA do not have a good track record lately (remember Bogut).
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
I think he could go in the top 15, although Toronto would be ideal because they will always have to deal with Dwight Howard and Superman has had trouble with bigger centers in the past. Believe it or not, I would pick him BEFORE Kevin Love because of defensive purposes. I hate to get racial here, but caucasian centers and power forwards in the NBA do not have a good track record lately (remember Bogut).
if i could give some kind of money bet here i would. but you think he'll go top 15? how about i give you top 18 and i'll take 19-30

Edit: I'll give you pick 19 too since i guarenteed he wont go before 20. so you get first 19 and i get 20-30

Last edited by Posterize246 : 06-06-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

Bogut came along pretty nice last year. He's learning the game. I think he will average close to a double next year.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

PacerRaptor, I had him going in the 1st round in my second draft. The 2nd round is a crapshoot where I think teams are already set on who they like (or have 2 or 3 choices in case one is gone). If White fell into the 2nd round I think you can throw everything else out the window. Plus Detriot would be a great fit for him, and since it doesn't matter if he is drafted 32nd or 58th, why not go to a team that would fit you?

Also I have Augustin going 11th in my new draft. That first draft is pretty old and Augustin seemed to be down a bit at that point. I really like him and I think will make an effective NBA point. I think he will at least be a Mo Williams/Rafer Alston type, but could be as good as say Jameer Nelson or Jamaal Tinsley. Size is really going to hurt him, but he is a gamer and a winner. Plus he is a true point which is pretty rare in this draft.

jtfacts, I said anywhere from 15 to 25 would be his range. This early I think that is actually a pretty small range considering opinions on him are so varied even on this small board (and will be for NBA GM's as well). He will go somewhere in the middle/late 1st round. It all comes down to how many smaller guys fall and how high the other centers go. I think this is actually a pretty decent big man draft so that will of course drive down some guys.

As for the white thing, you think he should go ahead of Koufus and Love? That really isn't a big stretch considering that means he still could go behind both Lopez brothers, McGee, Ibaka, Arthur, Greene, White, Hickson, Thompson, Speights, Hendrix, Hardin, Jordan, and Ajinca. I don't think that is a good argument unless you are doing a Arthur vs. Love thing or something.
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: New Mock Draft

I'm running short on time, but this is a quick draft I did.

1. Chicago-Derrick Rose

2. Miami-Michael Beasley

3. Minnesota-O.J. Mayo-I still think Lopez is in the running here, and Bayless will also get a long look, but right now Mayo is the frontrunner

4. Seattle-Jerryd Bayless

5. Memphis-Kevin Love-I think Lopez would be a great fit here, and will get some consideration, but need two things: Post scoring and rebounding, Lopez only gives them one

6. New York-Eric Gordon-I think they may look to get a potential big-time scorer and Gordon has huge upside as a pure scorer

7. L.A. Clippers-Russell Westbrook-A perfect project for them as a UCLA prospect

8. Milwaukee-Brook Lopez-Yi and Villanueva tend to play outside, so Bogut needs some help inside

9. Charlotte-Anthony Randolph-Not really want they are looking for in a traditional post scorer, but Randolph is a steal this late because of his potential

10. New Jersey-Joe Alexander-They look at some big men at this point, but they can get one at 21 so they grab the most athletic/hard working player in the draft

11. Indiana-D.J. Augustin-This team could go a lot of ways and Arthur, Gallinari, and Jordan get a look here

12. Sacramento-Darrell Arthur-They are looking for a point, but with Augusin and Westbrook gone, they hope to fill their second biggest hole, post scoring, with a guy they can mold into that

13. Portland-Danilo Gallinari-Falls a few picks, and Portland welcomes him as a guy that seems like the SF version of Roy

14. Golden State-Donte Greene-This team needs help right now, but that can be addressed in the FA market, and in the draft they need to look at their future

15. Phoenix-Kosta Koufos-A nice compliment to Amare and Shaq inside

16. Philadelphia-Marreese Speights-These teams needs an athletic post scorer, and Speights could develop into that in a couple years

17. Toronto-Chase Budinger-Fill their need at wing with athleticism and a good all-around game with some work

18. Washington-DeAndre Jordan-The window is closing on this team and Jordan is a nice project to stash in the D-League while they try to give a playoff run one more try with the current team

19. Cleveland-Brandon Rush-LeBron needs help and Rush is good enough at both ends, and has the size, to finally give LeBron a guy who can play 35 minutes next to him, if he can stay healthy of course

20. Denver-JaVale McGee-Simply looking for Camby's replacement

21. New Jersey-Roy Hibbert-With Alexander in place, they fill their biggest need with a really big post scorer who could start right away

22. Orlando-Nicolas Batum-Looking for a PG and size behind Howard, but the potential of Batum is too much to pass up

23. Utah-Robin Lopez-With the addition of Shaq and Gasol, and the emergance of Bynum, Chandler, and possibly soon Oden, the Jazz will need size to keep pace in the Western Conference playoffs

24. Seattle-Ty Lawson-Seems like an odd pick with Bayless already drafted, but Lawson will be a great backup and allow Bayless play off the ball while he learns to be a better point

25. Houston-Chris Douglas-Roberts-Badly need someone to create their own shots, and CDR is the best player available who can do that

26. San Antonio-Victor Claver-Look at some college players, but Rush and CDR off the board, they stick with their usual international selection

27. New Orleans-D.J. White-A bit like David West, but he gives them some added depth off the bench to join last year pick Julian Wright

28. Memphis-Serge Ibaka-Love gives them a versitle PF, but Ibaka is an aggressive player that would be nice off the bench

29. Detroit-Jason Thompson-Rasheed and McDyess are getting old and Detroit struck gold last year with a lower conference player

30. Boston-Mario Chalmers-Sam Cassell and Eddie House are FA, so a PG who can shoot and be poised is needed, plus Chalmers can play some D as well



31. Minnesota-Alexis Ajinca-Just hoping to find a decent 7-0 guy next to Jefferson

32. Seattle-DeVon Hardin-After going with guards in the 1st round, they will look to get bigger in the 2nd round

33. Portland-Richard Hendrix-A good value pick at this point for this team that is already full of young talent

34. Minnesota-JJ Hickson-A young athlete who could be a force down low in a few years

35. L.A. Clippers-Bill Walker-Some risk involved with him, but in the 2nd round, he is a lottery talent that could form a decent backcourt with Westbrook

36. Portland-Nikola Pekovic-Hoping for a steal

37. Milwaukee-Courtney Lee-They don't have much depth at guard

38. Charlotte-Ryan Anderson-They are looking for a backup gaurd, but Anderson could give them some bench scoring for a couple years while they wait for Randolph

39. Chicago-Joey Dorsey-Helps ease Rose in the NBA, but doesn't fill their need for post scoring

40. New Jersey-Lester Hudson-Filled out their frontcourt in the 1st round, so they look to grab a scoring guard, and that is what Hudson does best

41. Indiana-Wayne Ellington-May lose Flip Murray and Kareem Rush to FA, so Ellington is a nice pick this late

42. Sacramento-Will Daniels-Just looking to add some depth at forward

43. Sacramento-Jamont Gordon-Need a PG if Urdih leaves

44. Utah-DeMarcus Nelson-Solid player that can do some things off the bench

45. San Antonio-Nathan Jawai-Orberto is not young, and Jawai could be a good replacement

46. Seattle-Trent Plaisted-Continue to look for size

47. Washington-Othello Hunter-Undersized, but this team has good size for the most part, and Hunter could provide some toughness off the bench

48. Phoenix-Davon Jefferson-Looking to strike gold with a talented but risky player

49. Golden State-Sonny Weems-Not much they are looking for at this point, but they have some wings hitting the FA market

50. Seattle-Brian Roberts-Another PG, but this one is low risk and is a great shooter

51. Dallas-Richard Roby-Stack is not getting any younger

52. Miami-Sasha Kaun-Looking for some help inside to protect their new franchise player in Beasley

53. Utah-Semih Erden-An athletic 6-11 player, they can't really lose this late

54. Houston-Keith Brumbaugh-Huge risk, but could potentially fill a big hole as their backup/future SF

55. Portland-Gary Forbes-This team knows talent and Forbes has it, they can't pass him up this late

56. Seattle-Shan Foster-Some more shooting help as a 10th man type

57. San Antonio-J.R. Giddens-Lots of talent and if he keeps his head on straight could be a big payoff down the road

58. L.A. Lakers-Kyle Weaver-Need some depth at guard

59. Detroit-Reggie Williams-Already have Afflalo, but Williams is a 6-6 scoring machine, which they could use off the bench

60. Boston-Shawn James-A 6-10 athlete that has the potential to be a good defender, solid scorer, and decent shooter
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