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Old 05-27-2008, 06:18 PM   #1
mlh1981
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Default Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

http://blog.cleveland.com/cavaliers_...let_point.html

Thoughts? I'll add mine later when I have more time, but wanted to get some feedback from Cavs fans on ISH.........

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Old 05-28-2008, 06:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Here's some stuff I find irritating:

Quote:
Ben Wallace:
Ideal 2008 role: A defensive presence off the bench. If the Cavs can somehow land Elton Brand, Wallace won't start. But if the bigs are still status quo, Wallace is your starting four.

Where in the blue hells are we supposed to get money to sign Elton Brand? The author loses all credibility right there. He sounds like a fanboy.

Quote:
Devin Brown:
The bad: Shouldn't start nor play big minutes. Sometimes tries to make plays he shouldn't try to make.

First off, that doesn't even make sense. "Shouldn't start or play big minutes." doesn't sound like criticism to me, it sounds like a projection. And Devin Brown would have done a hell of a lot better job than Wally, or Sasha.

Quote:
Anderson Varejo:
The bad: Tried to do too much offensively and lost sight of his role. He's an energy player. It's his job to bother opponents and get them out of their game. If the Cavs had the Andy of 2007 they'd have beaten the Celtics because he would have bothered Kevin Garnett to no end.

Highlight: Certainly not the playoffs. How about signing his contract?

Off-season homework: Focus on getting back to what works. You're not a star. You don't have much offensively. Develop a midrange jumper and remember who you are.

Ideal 2008 role: The role we've seen him in for the last three years. Energy bench player.

Where do I start? Anderson Varejo has never been good enough to guard Kevin Garnett consistently, EVER. Second? Varejo developing a mid range jumper? I don't know about the rest of you, but I scream at my t.v. when he gets to touch the basketball. Lastly? Energy bench player? Is this idiot failing to see that Andy has been exposed by the league, and isn't going to be back? His peak was last year, pre playoffs when he was leading the league in charges taken. Then the playoffs hit and the refs got wise to his flopping. Now he's a joke. In fact, he's stupid. His attitude is stupid, his hair is stupid, his flopping is stupid, and his persistence in trying to do things on offense is stupid.

Quote:
Damon Jones:
The good: He hits threes, which is what he gets paid to do.

BULLSHIT!!BULLSHIT!!BULLSHIT!!

Damon Jones was brought in as Danny Ferry's "answer" to our needs at point guard with Eric Snow at the position. Damon Jones has failed in every aspect of that opportunity. He was not brought in and paid all that money to stand behind the arc and shoot threes. To commend him for it is absurd.

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Old 05-28-2008, 06:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

While I agree with most of what you have to say, Mathius, Damon Jones has always been known as a three point marksman. He wasn't at the age where he was going to dramatically change his game around when the Cavs signed him, and they should've known that. Blame Cavs management, not him, for the money that he got. I like the guy, I can honestly say. Is he the type of PG that can start on a championship caliber team? No. Is he an all around player? No. I do like the confidence that he brings to the team, though, and can't understand for the life of me why Mike Brown nailed him to the bench in the latter stages of the season.

The writer contradicts himself when he speaks of Anderson.......

"You don't have much offensively"

"Develop a midrange jumper"

If Anderson can't hit a jumpshot at his age, then he's never going to. He's young, but not THAT young. At some point, you stop improving, you plateau for awhile, and you are who you are.........

Last edited by mlh1981 : 05-28-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
While I agree with most of what you have to say, Mathius, Damon Jones has always been known as a three point marksman. He wasn't at the age where he was going to dramatically change his game around when the Cavs signed him, and they should've known that. Blame Cavs management, not him, for the money that he got. I like the guy, I can honestly say. Is he the type of PG that can start on a championship caliber team? No. Is he an all around player? No. I do like the confidence that he brings to the team, though, and can't understand for the life of me why Mike Brown nailed him to the bench in the latter stages of the season.

The writer contradicts himself when he speaks of Anderson.......

"You don't have much offensively"

"Develop a midrange jumper"

If Anderson can't hit a jumpshot at his age, then he's never going to. He's young, but not THAT young. At some point, you stop improving, you plateau for awhile, and you are who you are.........

Cavs management's fault or not, he's far too arrogant for me to ever like him. The guy is absolutely blessed to be in the NBA because he really belongs behind a counter at McDonalds.

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Old 05-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Where in the blue hells are we supposed to get money to sign Elton Brand? The author loses all credibility right there. He sounds like a fanboy.

Wierder things have happened in the NBA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
First off, that doesn't even make sense. "Shouldn't start or play big minutes." doesn't sound like criticism to me, it sounds like a projection. And Devin Brown would have done a hell of a lot better job than Wally, or Sasha.

You don't know this. Yet in another post you say the key for next season is Wally if we keep him, do you love or hate the guy? Yea I'm sure Devin "somebody or another" would've helped us much better with his inconsistent season play in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Where do I start? Anderson Varejo has never been good enough to guard Kevin Garnett consistently, EVER. Second? Varejo developing a mid range jumper? I don't know about the rest of you, but I scream at my t.v. when he gets to touch the basketball. Lastly? Energy bench player? Is this idiot failing to see that Andy has been exposed by the league, and isn't going to be back? His peak was last year, pre playoffs when he was leading the league in charges taken. Then the playoffs hit and the refs got wise to his flopping. Now he's a joke. In fact, he's stupid. His attitude is stupid, his hair is stupid, his flopping is stupid, and his persistence in trying to do things on offense is stupid.

Like anyone in the NBA can consistently guard Garnett, it's more or less slowing the guy down. Yet during the playoffs Anderson slowed down Garnett more than any other player on the Cavs when he was in the game, but yet Anderson didn't get many minutes and they would bring in Wallace who did worse defensively against Garnett. Wallace wouldn't hustle to Garnett on the outside shots he sank nor did anyone else except Anderson. Scream at your TV when Wallace touches the ball more than Anderson IMO. You seem mad at Anderson for almost no reason. Sure, the guy makes stupid mistakes sometimes, so does LeBron when he jacks up wierd ass 3pointers, but give the guy credit for hustling. He hustles in to get the charge, and maybe cause a turnover, he hustles on the rebounds, he gives his body up to get the Cavs maybe 1 more possession they need to win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Damon Jones was brought in as Danny Ferry's "answer" to our needs at point guard with Eric Snow at the position. Damon Jones has failed in every aspect of that opportunity. He was not brought in and paid all that money to stand behind the arc and shoot threes. To commend him for it is absurd.

Tell us something we don't know already. We knew what type of point guard Jones was before he got here. He can't run offense that well, can't create, he's just a spot up 3point shooter and that is it.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meticode
Wierder things have happened in the NBA.

Not weird enough. There is no way for the Cavs to clear that much money off the books before free agency, unless they start giving players away to teams with available cap money.

Quote:
You don't know this.

Yeah, I do. For one simple reason. Wally was pretty much non existent except for one game.

Quote:
Yet in another post you say the key for next season is Wally if we keep him, do you love or hate the guy? Yea I'm sure Devin "somebody or another" would've helped us much better with his inconsistent season play in the playoffs.

Show me this post you're babbling about. I would have never used the words, "if we keep him" for one, because he is still under contract. The only way we get rid of him is if we trade him.

The key to next season is Wally? Definitely didn't come out of my mouth. I've said that I felt he would be the steal out of the trades we made, and I've been wrong so far. He clearly has lost whatever shooting touch he used to have, and that stat about him being a career .280 something three point shooter in the playoffs is something I wish I'd known before.

If Wally could be the second scorer we need, then yeah, he might put us over the top next year, but that's a big if.

And I happen to have a hell of a lot of respect for Devin Brown's game. The guy is like a poor man's version of Lebron James. He puts up 10/5/5 minimum every time he plays 25 minutes or more. And most people don't know that he led his high school, and college in all time scoring. If he was given a more prominent role in the offense, who knows what he could achieve. But irregardless of that, he still needs to be on the floor because the guy just plain fills up a stat sheet, even if he isn't scoring.

Quote:
Like anyone in the NBA can consistently guard Garnett, it's more or less slowing the guy down. Yet during the playoffs Anderson slowed down Garnett more than any other player on the Cavs when he was in the game, but yet Anderson didn't get many minutes and they would bring in Wallace who did worse defensively against Garnett. Wallace wouldn't hustle to Garnett on the outside shots he sank nor did anyone else except Anderson. Scream at your TV when Wallace touches the ball more than Anderson IMO. You seem mad at Anderson for almost no reason. Sure, the guy makes stupid mistakes sometimes, so does LeBron when he jacks up wierd ass 3pointers, but give the guy credit for hustling. He hustles in to get the charge, and maybe cause a turnover, he hustles on the rebounds, he gives his body up to get the Cavs maybe 1 more possession they need to win.

Blah blah blah blah. Don't waste my f*ing time again defending Varejo. He's a worthless, gutless, retard and I can't f*cking stand him.

And don't tell me I have no good reason. The idiot flops way too much, and almost cost us the series against Detroit last year. He hasn't learned from any of his mistakes, still making stupid moves offensively, and still flopping, even though the refs don't give him the calls anymore. And he had the balls to hold out for more money like the idiot deserved it.

Quote:
Tell us something we don't know already. We knew what type of point guard Jones was before he got here. He can't run offense that well, can't create, he's just a spot up 3point shooter and that is it.

And that's good enough for you, huh? Fantastic. Another quality Cleveland fan. Just show up to watch Lebron throw down some jams, kiddie?

We're paying this idiot a pretty good chunk of change to sit on the end of the pine and grin at the camera and make stupid jokes. It's almost like having Danny Ferry on the payroll again. If I had no frig'n life, I'd go look up all the players who make less money than him and are doing better, and I'd list them here to show you just why you should be as pissed as I am.

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Old 05-29-2008, 09:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Not weird enough. There is no way for the Cavs to clear that much money off the books before free agency, unless they start giving players away to teams with available cap money.

Hello Gasol to the Lakers for Brown of 2008. Something for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Yeah, I do. For one simple reason. Wally was pretty much non existent except for one game.

In round 1 and 2 he had a bunch of decent games where he wasn't what you quote "non existent." Grant it, he only scored over 20 points 1 time which was the Wizards, but even then he's never even averaged more than 19PPG in any season of his NBA career. So it's not like you should expect or even hope for him to get over 20 a game ever consistently. You should expect 13-15PPG from this guy this late in his career. And over half of his games he had around that much in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Show me this post you're babbling about. I would have never used the words, "if we keep him" for one, because he is still under contract. The only way we get rid of him is if we trade him.

The key to next season is Wally? Definitely didn't come out of my mouth. I've said that I felt he would be the steal out of the trades we made, and I've been wrong so far. He clearly has lost whatever shooting touch he used to have, and that stat about him being a career .280 something three point shooter in the playoffs is something I wish I'd known before.

If Wally could be the second scorer we need, then yeah, he might put us over the top next year, but that's a big if.

And I happen to have a hell of a lot of respect for Devin Brown's game. The guy is like a poor man's version of Lebron James. He puts up 10/5/5 minimum every time he plays 25 minutes or more.

I never said you said if we keep him. That's just me saying if we keep him because we don't know what trades are going to happen to predict Wally will stay or not. You basically said he could be a key to next season right here in so many words without ever saying it, in-my-opinion "maybe" being a second scorer is being a key to the team, I don't know I guess:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
But the guy that I really think could help us out is Wally.

If he can start hitting shots like he did with Minnesota, and when he first came over to Boston, he and Lebron are just going to feed off of each other.

So, you want to play Brown in the playoffs over Wally and Sasha for some reason, but for some reason or another you think Wally can help next season. Does Brown have some playoff experience, or some tangible skill I don't know about that makes him that much better of a player to play in the playoffs over those 2 guys. You call him a 10/5/5 player at MINIMUM when he averages 25 mins. He hasn't even been close to averaging that ever in his career, his best season was with the Hornets where was was 11/4/2 in 28.7 minutes. 10/5/5? Yea sure...whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Blah blah blah blah. Don't waste my f*ing time again defending Varejo. He's a worthless, gutless, retard and I can't f*cking stand him.

And don't tell me I have no good reason. The idiot flops way too much, and almost cost us the series against Detroit last year. He hasn't learned from any of his mistakes, still making stupid moves offensively, and still flopping, even though the refs don't give him the calls anymore. And he had the balls to hold out for more money like the idiot deserved it.



And that's good enough for you, huh? Fantastic. Another quality Cleveland fan. Just show up to watch Lebron throw down some jams, kiddie?

We're paying this idiot a pretty good chunk of change to sit on the end of the pine and grin at the camera and make stupid jokes. It's almost like having Danny Ferry on the payroll again. If I had no frig'n life, I'd go look up all the players who make less money than him and are doing better, and I'd list them here to show you just why you should be as pissed as I am.

Mathius


Grant it, Anderson's contract is bloated, but it's part of the business. I'm more upset with Ferry than I ever will be with Anderson. A lot of players go where the money is.

So, keep throwing the words like idiot and kiddie around and being pissed off all the time over nothing if you want. No stopping you there sir. Keep strong, be strong, be Mathius strong.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meticode
Hello Gasol to the Lakers for Brown of 2008. Something for nothing.

That's great, except you do realize that Brand has the option to be a free agent this season right? Which means the only way he ends up on the Cavs is a desperate sign and trade by LA, which would pretty much guarantee they're rebuilding (AGAIN).

There's never been any indication that they intend to trade Brand, Maggette is the one who's constantly on the trade block. There's also no indication that LA wants to rebuild. They believe if everyone stays healthy they have a pretty good team, and that's probably not far off. Contender? Doubtful, but a good, playoff team. Possibly.

Quote:
In round 1 and 2 he had a bunch of decent games where he wasn't what you quote "non existent." Grant it, he only scored over 20 points 1 time which was the Wizards, but even then he's never even averaged more than 19PPG in any season of his NBA career. So it's not like you should expect or even hope for him to get over 20 a game ever consistently. You should expect 13-15PPG from this guy this late in his career. And over half of his games he had around that much in the playoffs.

That's great, it also ignores the fact that Brown was the starter coming into the playoffs, and the only reason Wally was out there was because of Mike Brown and his f*cked up rotations.

It also ignores the fact that we won in round 1. We didn't win in round 2 and Wally didn't show up. Coincidence? Yeah, right. And I don't give a crap how old he is, either. We're not talking end of his career here. He's only 31 years old. He should pretty much be in his prime right now. The fact of the matter is, he's just playing disappointing basketball and for some god damn reason, you feel the need to defend him anyways.

Quote:
So, you want to play Brown in the playoffs over Wally and Sasha for some reason, but for some reason or another you think Wally can help next season.

See, let me explain to you something about an intelligent person. Words are very important to an intelligent person, because they tell a lot about what the person is communicating. Since this is an online forum, text only, with no tone, no body language, that should make it even more important that you pay attention and focus on what is actually written. there.

In other words, did you not see the sentence started with "IF" ? moron.

And it makes perfect sense to want to not play Wally in the playoffs and play him next season. The guy was in the biggest shooting slump of his career, and Mike Brown inserts him into the lineup? With an off season of working out on his own, and getting more integrated with the team, he should be much better off.

Quote:
Does Brown have some playoff experience, or some tangible skill I don't know about that makes him that much better of a player to play in the playoffs over those 2 guys. You call him a 10/5/5 player at MINIMUM when he averages 25 mins. He hasn't even been close to averaging that ever in his career, his best season was with the Hornets where was was 11/4/2 in 28.7 minutes. 10/5/5? Yea sure...whatever.

Here's another fine example of what an intelligent person would have seen. Stats are just numbers. The numbers you're quoting are what we call an average. That means that if he plays 35 minutes one game, and 14 minutes the next game, he isn't necessarily going to keep his average up. He might average 28 minutes per game, but that doesn't mean his other numbers won't suffer. And he only played 58 games for NOK.

If you'd f*cking paid attention to the Cavs all season and looked at a damn box score now and then, you'd know that Devin Brown has been shooting a pitiful 30% from the floor, but contributing in other ways.

Quote:
Grant it, Anderson's contract is bloated, but it's part of the business. I'm more upset with Ferry than I ever will be with Anderson. A lot of players go where the money is.

That's cute. Be upset with Ferry. D-Bag Anderson holds out. Wants an outrageous sum of money, and Ferry lets him sit and stew. He can't trade him, he isn't under contract, and nobody wants him after the most pitiful playoff performance of his young career and an outrageous demand for money, so he waits him out, and makes him settle on a low ball number that's pretty much what the Cavs want.

Ferry did everything right. He can't move Varejo until Varejo starts playing well enough to earn some interest. That's the way the $hit works. Instead, he did the next best thing, allowing Varejo and out in year 3 of his new contract, so the Cavs only have to deal with him for 2, if he doesn't want to settle down and "play ball". He quite clearly has no interest, because his game hasn't improved, and he still flops like an idiot. Next year, he will be fined for it.

Quote:
So, keep throwing the words like idiot and kiddie around and being pissed off all the time over nothing if you want. No stopping you there sir. Keep strong, be strong, be Mathius strong.

Stop acting like an immature idiot, and say something intelligent, and maybe I'll stop. I'm so f*cking tired of dealing with stupidity from this board, it's sad. Don't expect me to be merciful.

Mathius
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
That's great, except you do realize that Brand has the option to be a free agent this season right? Which means the only way he ends up on the Cavs is a desperate sign and trade by LA, which would pretty much guarantee they're rebuilding (AGAIN).

There's never been any indication that they intend to trade Brand, Maggette is the one who's constantly on the trade block. There's also no indication that LA wants to rebuild. They believe if everyone stays healthy they have a pretty good team, and that's probably not far off. Contender? Doubtful, but a good, playoff team. Possibly.

Waste of time if you're just a "good playoff time." Okay guys, this year let's set our goal on round 1, then next year round 2, then next year round 3, then the finals. Just get it over with and rebuild, or go for the Finals and make some logical moves. Obviously with their current roster (including Brand) and any addition they're not going to make a run for it. Their's teams and players you don't think will make any move in the off-season all the time and it still happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
That's great, it also ignores the fact that Brown was the starter coming into the playoffs, and the only reason Wally was out there was because of Mike Brown and his f*cked up rotations.

Congratulations to Devin Brown on achieving starter status when Sasha was injured at the time and Wally just got traded to the Cavs and didn't know anything of the Cavs offense. Of course Devin was a stater sir, it was either start someone who knew the offense or didn't know the offense. DUR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
It also ignores the fact that we won in round 1. We didn't win in round 2 and Wally didn't show up. Coincidence? Yeah, right. And I don't give a crap how old he is, either. We're not talking end of his career here. He's only 31 years old. He should pretty much be in his prime right now. The fact of the matter is, he's just playing disappointing basketball and for some god damn reason, you feel the need to defend him anyways.

Your numbers are skewed on the games between rounds 1 and 2. In round 1 Wally had 1 good game, and 1 decent game. The 4 other games games he shot under 40% every single game in round 1 except game 2 and 6.

In round 2 he faced a much better defensive team...yet he shot from the field more consistently and even played MORE minutes against Boston total while giving up less turnovers. So it seems like you're saying we won round 1 because he played good (when he only had 1 good game), but we lost round 2 becuase he didn't show up (when he played more consistently getting 14-15PPGish). Your logical is flawed.

Round 1
-Game 1: 2-10/8 points
-Game 2: 6-9/15 points
-Game 3: 3-9/6 points
-Game 4: 2-5/6 points
-Game 5: 1-6/4 points
-Game 6: 9-19/26 points

Total Minutes Played: 153 minutes = 6 turnovers

Round 2
-Game 1: 5-14/13 points
-Game 2: 4-11/13 points
-Game 3: 4-10/16 points
-Game 4: 6-11/14 points
-Game 5: 3-8/10 points
-Game 6: 2-11/9 points
-Game 7: 0-3/0 points

Total Minutes Played: 222 minutes = 4 turnovers

Also he's shouldn't be in his prime. I had the privilege of watching Wally play in 2-3 basketball games in person since his college, Miami (Ohio) is right near my hometown of Cincy, and the kid always had ankle problems then and now still does. Then after he got in the NBA he's had injures to his legs since then. That really shortens a player's career. But you don't know this, you just see "Oh he's 31 year's old, he's still good or should be in his prime." He's lost so much mobility he had coming out of college after his leg/ankle injures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
If you'd f*cking paid attention to the Cavs all season and looked at a damn box score now and then, you'd know that Devin Brown has been shooting a pitiful 30% from the floor, but contributing in other ways.

Other ways? We don't need his other ways, we need people who can score. Devin Brown isn't that person at all. We we're already a good defensive team minus him, we don't need even more defense we need something called offense from other players beside LeBron...maybe Brown thought putting Wally in the lineup would help his jump-shooting. One thing is obvious, if Brown was out there getting Wally's minutes I doubt we would've even finished the Wizards out in 6 games.

We finished the season worse with him in the damn lineup. We were losing against teams we should've certainly beat like the Bucks and Bulls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
That's cute. Be upset with Ferry. D-Bag Anderson holds out. Wants an outrageous sum of money, and Ferry lets him sit and stew. He can't trade him, he isn't under contract, and nobody wants him after the most pitiful playoff performance of his young career and an outrageous demand for money, so he waits him out, and makes him settle on a low ball number that's pretty much what the Cavs want.

Ferry did everything right. He can't move Varejo until Varejo starts playing well enough to earn some interest. That's the way the $hit works. Instead, he did the next best thing, allowing Varejo and out in year 3 of his new contract, so the Cavs only have to deal with him for 2, if he doesn't want to settle down and "play ball". He quite clearly has no interest, because his game hasn't improved, and he still flops like an idiot. Next year, he will be fined for it.

While I agree with some parts, mostly just no to all of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
Stop acting like an immature idiot, and say something intelligent, and maybe I'll stop. I'm so f*cking tired of dealing with stupidity from this board, it's sad. Don't expect me to be merciful.

Perhaps take you own advice. I'm not the one spewing idiot and kiddie and all this other crap you talk. You have seriously no clue what you're talking about and all you care about is what you think and not what actually is going on. Good job on a job not-so-well done sir. Ask for the other stuff I didn't reply to, I didn't feel like replying to crap that just spewed out.

Last edited by Meticode : 05-30-2008 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

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Originally Posted by Meticode
Waste of time if you're just a "good playoff time." Okay guys, this year let's set our goal on round 1, then next year round 2, then next year round 3, then the finals. Just get it over with and rebuild, or go for the Finals and make some logical moves. Obviously with their current roster (including Brand) and any addition they're not going to make a run for it. Their's teams and players you don't think will make any move in the off-season all the time and it still happens.

That's because you're clueless as usual. First off, do you honestly think there is any owner, gm, or coach in the league that thinks, "Oh, we're good enough to get to the playoffs, but then we're going to get our a$$es handed to us, so we should just break up this team now."

That isn't how it works. You hold out with the guys you have, and hope to add another piece the next year. Financially it's better to stick with the playoff team than just start trading pieces away. More games = more money. Playoffs = more fan support. Rebuilding = empty stands.

Lastly, LAC doesn't even know what they have. They added pieces last year, and they didn't have a healthy Brand or Livingston. You don't trade away a superstar like Brand just for the hell of it when you haven't even had a chance to get everyone together and see what they can do. The only reason that makes sense for the Clippers to not keep Brand is if A. they get something phenomenal for him. B. His rebab isn't coming along well and he's going to lose a step, or C. he doesn't want to be there and is going to opt out and not resign.

When I said they probably didn't have the talent to win it all, that was MY opinion, that doesn't mean the Clips organization isn't hoping that someone will improve over the off season (Thorton?) or that Brand and/or Livingston won't come back hungry and have a phenomenal year.

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Congratulations to Devin Brown on achieving starter status when Sasha was injured at the time and Wally just got traded to the Cavs and didn't know anything of the Cavs offense. Of course Devin was a stater sir, it was either start someone who knew the offense or didn't know the offense. DUR!

Devin Brown has never been asked to score for the Cavs, there are numerous quotes from Mike Brown on this in the Plain Dealer. Pick it up once in a while. Oh, wait. I forgot. You live in Wisconsin, but your an expert on what's going on with the Cavs.

I can't believe you even had the balls to imply that Sasha should have been starting. He's shot 30% from the field all year long, his defense sucked, and those are the only two things he was good for last year. Guy can't finish, isn't a great passer (in fact, he's a horrible passer, often leaving his feet to throw a pass, and turns it over).

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Also he's shouldn't be in his prime.

Yeah, he should. At 31 years of age, you should be in your prime. It's a biological fact. There might be some extra wear and tear on these guys coming out straight from high school, but that remains to be seen. KG has weathered his body pretty well, but McGrady two years ago was talking retirement because of all his back issues.

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I had the privilege of watching Wally play in 2-3 basketball games in person since his college, Miami (Ohio) is right near my hometown of Cincy,

Which has clearly clouded your judgement. If anyone else had the balls to jump in the middle of this argument, they'd be pointing out that Wally has always been a shooter, and that his shot hasn't been falling for the Cavs, which makes him pretty much worthless. The guy was a tortoise on defense, he could barely keep up with Stevenson, and then Ray Allen was making him look worse.

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and the kid always had ankle problems then and now still does. Then after he got in the NBA he's had injures to his legs since then. That really shortens a player's career. But you don't know this, you just see "Oh he's 31 year's old, he's still good or should be in his prime." He's lost so much mobility he had coming out of college after his leg/ankle injures.

Oh good, so now we have a shooter who can't shoot, who is too slow to play defense, and you're arguing that he should start, but then say his career will be shortened because he's been racked by injuries.

These are the sort of f*cked up, idiot arguments that just piss me off. When people start arguing against me using negative things about the guy they're trying to support, I just KNOW I'm wasting my time.

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Other ways? We don't need his other ways, we need people who can score.

We don't HAVE people who can score, fool. It was evident before we even got into the playoffs that we weren't as good as last year unless the guys who came in from the trade started getting hungry in the playoffs. It was also evident that Wally wasn't getting it done. You don't just stick with the same personnel in hopes that something's just going to click and turn around. Playoffs are about winning.

Doc Rivers understood that when he put Eddie House in the lineup, and he started terrorizing the Cavs. Mike Brown's a fool who sticks with the same lineup out of loyalty or some other deluded nonsense. We saw it for years when he continued to play Hughes even though he was horrible. We saw it this year with Wally.

Wally played like ****. At some point you have to pull him and try something else.

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Devin Brown isn't that person at all. We we're already a good defensive team minus him, we don't need even more defense we need something called offense from other players beside LeBron...maybe Brown thought putting Wally in the lineup would help his jump-shooting. One thing is obvious, if Brown was out there getting Wally's minutes I doubt we would've even finished the Wizards out in 6 games.

Mike Brown's an idiot. We all know this. Then again, maybe you're not bright enough to realize it. Your logic in this thread has been all F*cked up anyways.

You clearly haven't seen Devin Brown play when he was inserted into the starting lineup with the Hornets. In his last month with the team he averaged 15/5/2 in only 30 minutes a game.

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We finished the season worse with him in the damn lineup. We were losing against teams we should've certainly beat like the Bucks and Bulls.

Why don't you go look and see who averages more minutes in wins. Its real simple. Go to ESPN.com. Look up Wally, then look up Devin. Go under a little section called "splits". Wally averages less minutes in games we won then in games we lost. Devin averages more minutes in games we won, than in games we lost.

Let me simplify that for you. When Devin Brown plays more minutes, we win. When Wally plays more minutes, we lose. The ratio between the two is slight, but since neither of them averages more than 23 minutes per game, that isn't really the telling stat. The bottom line is, the more time wally spends on the floor, the less chances of us winning.

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Perhaps take you own advice. I'm not the one spewing idiot and kiddie and all this other crap you talk. You have seriously no clue what you're talking about and all you care about is what you think and not what actually is going on. Good job on a job not-so-well done sir. Ask for the other stuff I didn't reply to, I didn't feel like replying to crap that just spewed out.

Right. Because your logic has made a whole lot of sense in this thread. Like I said. Quit acting like an idiot and I won't treat you like one.

Mathius

Last edited by Mathius : 05-31-2008 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

I laughed at all of that because you fail to read anything correctly.

LAC needs to stop giving their fans false hopes. They're not going to win anything with Brand, ship him now, get draft picks or something. It's so easy to see and they've had mild success with the guy and the way they're tried to build around him. It hasn't worked out except for 1 year since he's been there when they were a contender, and they failed miserably in the playoffs. Get if over with, rebuild now.

I know coach Brown never asked Devin to be a scorer. But you fail to see that's what the hell we need. We don't need more poeple playing defense, we need people to help LeBron. Maybe if you understood this and Brown understood and actual plays would be ran instead of LeBron standing up in the middle dribbling for 10+ seconds without 1 pass you would see this. Brown knows we needed points somewhere, and it wasn't going to come from Devin as you said. So he put Wally in the starting lineup. Case closed, get the hell out of my face about it.

About Wally being in his prime. You're stupid. He's had at least 2-3 ankle injures. Do you not understand this makes a player not about to make cuts like they used to, so they're not as fast, so they can get open as fast for the J? No, you obviously don't because you keep making worthless arguments about he should be in his prime. Well guess what, it doesn't matter because he's not and he passed his prime 2 years ago. KG has had no major injuries in his career especially to the legs to hold him back like that, KG is an athletic freak when he came into the league and developed into a bigger one afterwards. Comparing Wally's athleticism and body type to McGrady and KG is just stupid. You make me cry even mentioning their names with his. Hello? Anyone there? Knock knock?

LOL@the more time Wally plays on the floor we lose. Then why in the hell are you saying "he could help us next year" and all this bull**** when you play him down so much? You talk about logic, but fail to look at yourself.

Keep it coming please.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

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Originally Posted by Meticode
I laughed at all of that because you fail to read anything correctly.

LAC needs to stop giving their fans false hopes. They're not going to win anything with Brand, ship him now, get draft picks or something. It's so easy to see and they've had mild success with the guy and the way they're tried to build around him. It hasn't worked out except for 1 year since he's been there when they were a contender, and they failed miserably in the playoffs. Get if over with, rebuild now.

Oh, ok. I get it. Because YOU think they should get rid of him, then that's what they're going to do, right?

Whatever.

Quote:
I know coach Brown never asked Devin to be a scorer. But you fail to see that's what the hell we need. We don't need more poeple playing defense, we need people to help LeBron. Maybe if you understood this and Brown understood and actual plays would be ran instead of LeBron standing up in the middle dribbling for 10+ seconds without 1 pass you would see this. Brown knows we needed points somewhere, and it wasn't going to come from Devin as you said. So he put Wally in the starting lineup. Case closed, get the hell out of my face about it.

No, fool. I know that we need more offense. We need a scorer that will create his own offense, instead of standing around watching Lebron. What your stupid, inane response fails to comprehend is that we don't have such a person on our roster.

Wally is a stand around shooter. Devin Brown moves around, creates shots for other players and doesn't stand around waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

Mike Brown is clueless. You're clueless. It's no wonder you agree with him.

Quote:
About Wally being in his prime. You're stupid. He's had at least 2-3 ankle injures. Do you not understand this makes a player not about to make cuts like they used to, so they're not as fast, so they can get open as fast for the J? No, you obviously don't because you keep making worthless arguments about he should be in his prime. Well guess what, it doesn't matter because he's not and he passed his prime 2 years ago. KG has had no major injuries in his career especially to the legs to hold him back like that, KG is an athletic freak when he came into the league and developed into a bigger one afterwards. Comparing Wally's athleticism and body type to McGrady and KG is just stupid. You make me cry even mentioning their names with his. Hello? Anyone there? Knock knock?

Do YOU understand that I never compared Wally to KG or McGrady? Clearly not. Is english your first language? You have very poor comprehension skills. All I pointed out is that the only way someone could possibly be rundown at 31, is if they came out from high school.

Irregardless, pointing out that Wally is past his prime and has ankle problems is just one more reason he shouldn't have been on the floor.

You're too stupid to figure out you're giving me ammo as to why he shouldn't play.

Quote:
LOL@the more time Wally plays on the floor we lose. Then why in the hell are you saying "he could help us next year" and all this bull**** when you play him down so much? You talk about logic, but fail to look at yourself.

If you're going to keep bringing up the same old crap, then you can fucking talk to yourself idiot.

It's a fact that we lost with Wally on the floor. The statistics are there to prove it. When he played more, we lost. That was this season fool.

If you can't understand that players play differently after an offseason of rest, and focusing on their individual games, then I feel sorry for you.

Yeah, if Wally spent all summer finding his jump shot, he could help us next year.

He wasn't helping us this year, which is why his ass should have been on the pine.


I'm not going to keep fucking repeating myself, so come up with something new, or shut the fuck up.

Mathius
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Thank you for the reply.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

i hope lebron improves even more
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Breaking down the Cavaliers player-by-player (Plain dealer article

Ok here's my views on the Cavs players:

LeBron: We need to keep him happy, no matter what. For every bad game he has, and every flaw he has, he's still the best thing to ever happen to our team and if he leaves we'll completely crumble. Just make the man happy

Big Z: To me he's the glue that keeps things together. He's been here longer than almost any player in the history of the team, and like the article noted his tip-ins are one of our most reliable means of scoring (which is sad). He's getting up there in age, but trading Z would definitely be a mistake. All the centers who would be upgrades from Z, aren't available, so trying to get a new center to replace him right now would be stupid. Best bet with the center position is to keep Z where he's at, and get a young center on the bench to start training to EVENTUALLY take Z's place

Daniel Gibson: I don't know if i'm the only person in Cleveland that thinks this, but i think people have waaaaaaayyyy too much faith in Gibson. He's a good 3 point shooter, yes, but people keep saying he can be our second scoring option which he simply can't be. People also insist he can start, which again he absolutely can't. Just leave him in the role he's been at: coming off the bench for some quick 3's

Ben Wallace: If we fake a player's death do they come off the books? Seriously maybe we can convince Ben to just go away for a few years til his contract is up...

Andy: Thank god he's overpaid cuz he's gonna be paying out his ass once the league starts fining players for flopping next year

Dee Brown: My pick for starting 2 guard until we can get LeBron a good sidekick. While he's not the best role player, I still have more faith in him than any of the other backup 2 guards on the team. His 3 point shot is decent and he can get to the basket some, which is more than i can say forrrr....

Sasha (what happened to Aleksandar?) Pavlovic: Go be injured somewhere

Delonte West: By FAR my favorite player that we got in the trade last year. I had never really seen him play since the Celtics were never on TV and neither was Seattle, but i was honestly very pleased with how he played, and of the 4 new players, he's the only one i really, really want to keep

Wally Sissurpiak: I really like Wally, and i wanted so bad for him to do good, but I don't think he ever developed the confidence he needed to really shine here. Hopefully he can find it somewhere else.

Joe Smith: I honestly don't care if he stays or goes. He was a good contributor, but not a unique one. In name, appearance and skills, he's just very generic.

Damon Jones and Eric Snow: RETIRE and be our new coaching staff please
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