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Old 03-21-2008, 03:41 PM   #1
final.wrath
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Default Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

In my oppinion... no. Here are my reasons why:

1) We don't have a scorer in the paint. Sheed is capable but hes a jumpshooter 90% of the time.
2) We aren't a good rebounding team. Our best rebounder (Maxiell) comes off the bench. Teams like Cleveland and Boston have destroyed us on the boards.
3) We have to rely on jumpshooting. Live by the jumper and die by it. We'll definately see some cold streaks in the playoffs that could cost us.
4) We don't have a Bowen type lockdown defender for players like Wade or Lebron. Under Flip we have had a lot of trouble defending superstars.


the playoffs have a lot to do with luck so i can't totally rule out a finals run... but from what we've seen this season and the past couple seasons these are some consistent problems with our team.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

I agree with all your points. I think the 'root of all evil' so to speak is how Sheed thinks he is a guard and shoots jumpers all day. If he were to play post more often, that would open up lanes for cutters and for Rip in particular.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Yeah except Sheed has always been that way.

We need to target Jermaine O'Neal if we can find a third team to deal with.

I also think Tayshaun needs a bigger role in the offense. He takes it to the basket a lot more than Rip and is a better passer, offensive rebounder, fastbreak finisher, and can post up most matchups.
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Old 03-22-2008, 09:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
1) We don't have a scorer in the paint. Sheed is capable but hes a jumpshooter 90% of the time.
2) We aren't a good rebounding team. Our best rebounder (Maxiell) comes off the bench. Teams like Cleveland and Boston have destroyed us on the boards.
3) We have to rely on jumpshooting. Live by the jumper and die by it. We'll definately see some cold streaks in the playoffs that could cost us.
4) We don't have a Bowen type lockdown defender for players like Wade or Lebron. Under Flip we have had a lot of trouble defending superstars.


I share these feelings as well…

The Pistons have become a jump shooting team and always feel that they can always shoot them selves back into games they fall behind on but in reality they just hurt them selves more…

The Pistons are a terrible rebounding team for sure… It seem like they are ALWAYS getting out rebounded… but when the Pistons favor jump shots that clang off the rim the opposition is going to have more opportunity to clean up off the glass…

Some things I would like to see:

More inside play — Post ups by Billups, Sheed, McDyess, more penetration by Prince -- hell more offense going through Prince…

CHANGE the starting line up! Put back McDyess back on the bench and insert Amir Johnson at the PF spot. Just because he starts does not mean he plays 25+ minutes a game… It will really develop him better, and bring a solid veteran off the bench. Flip is reluctant to make ANY changes and becomes complacent on his veterans and this year it will be his demise…


The truth… If this team stays its current course, complacency will get it as far as the ECF but the Celtics or Lebron James' will dispatch them handily…
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Matchups and injuries will greatly determine how the playoffs play out. Detroit shouldn't have any trouble getting to the ECF. Boston and Cleveland will beat the heck out of each other to get there, meaning Lebron will need to exhaust himself to win, or the big three will need to log big minutes for Boston. I think Detroit should be ready and waiting when that series ends.

Detroit's biggest advantages are durability and consistency. Teams can bet Detroit, but only if they play a stellar game. If a team isn't ready to play 4 out of 7 stellar games, Detroit will advance.

At the Finals level, I don't think there are many teams in the West that match up well with Detroit. Our toughest round is the ECF. If Detroit makes it to the finals, you should start planning the parade.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
1) We don't have a scorer in the paint. Sheed is capable but hes a jumpshooter 90% of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
We need to target Jermaine O'Neal if we can find a third team to deal with.

You seem to mention this a lot, but it's not as if Rasheed is taking wildly contested threes. His threes are actually quite good shots. It's a matter of Detroit taking what the defense gives. It would be nice if we had an automatic post player, but when you take into consideration the durability concerns of an interior game, it just doesn't make sense. If a player can shoot a safe, uncontested 35% from three point range and give the offense a decent shot at a rebound, why would you want to change your game to a contested and physical 60% from 2? How many times do we see a player like O'Neal or Duncan come down on another player's foot, instantly knocking them out of action for several weeks? I'll take my chances with the uncontested jumpshots, thanks.

By the way, O'Neal and Brand are both max contract players. How many starters do you want to give up for them? 2? 3?? And how much of the bench, which has been praised as the future and the key to Detroit's success this year? Sorry, it's just not a very good investment. You want a 55-60 game player that hasn't won anything instead? Why not just cheer for the Clippers or Indiana who have those players already? Oh, that's right - they suck despite the savior you proclaim they have.
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Old 03-23-2008, 06:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick27
You seem to mention this a lot, but it's not as if Rasheed is taking wildly contested threes. His threes are actually quite good shots.
Thats Sheed's game. He takes a lot of jumpers and rarely enters the low post.
He has immense talent near the basket he hasn't made that the focal point of his game. He is also pretty weak on the boards.

Quote:
It's a matter of Detroit taking what the defense gives. It would be nice if we had an automatic post player, but when you take into consideration the durability concerns of an interior game, it just doesn't make sense. If a player can shoot a safe, uncontested 35% from three point range and give the offense a decent shot at a rebound, why would you want to change your game to a contested and physical 60% from 2? How many times do we see a player like O'Neal or Duncan come down on another player's foot, instantly knocking them out of action for several weeks? I'll take my chances with the uncontested jumpshots, thanks.

jumpshots work well for the pistons because they execute so well. interesting concept about "safe" and "unsafe" shots... i don't think thats good logic in the NBA though. durability has more to do with luck, conditioning, and strength than physical play. Physical play down low is an integral part of the game you can't pass on a premium big man because you're afraid they might step on a foot.

Quote:
By the way, O'Neal and Brand are both max contract players. How many starters do you want to give up for them? 2? 3?? And how much of the bench, which has been praised as the future and the key to Detroit's success this year? Sorry, it's just not a very good investment.

You want a 55-60 game player that hasn't won anything instead? Why not just cheer for the Clippers or Indiana who have those players already? Oh, that's right - they suck despite the savior you proclaim they have.

lol had sheed won anything before he came here? he was considered a cancer.

elton brand led the league in PER in 2006... carried the clippers to the playoffs. he's better than any player on our team. top 5 PF. I don't think he's going to be available for a trade anyway...
But I would be willing to trade Rip, Dyess, and Maxiell for him. Afflalo could start he's better than people realize. Just like Elton Brand.

o'neal could be had for cheap next season we'll see. i'd give up maxiell for his defense and post scoring... with a healthy JO we'd be a much better team than we are now.

problem with all these trades is that we have no big expiring contracts.
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
jumpshots work well for the pistons because they execute so well. interesting concept about "safe" and "unsafe" shots... i don't think thats good logic in the NBA though. durability has more to do with luck, conditioning, and strength than physical play. Physical play down low is an integral part of the game you can't pass on a premium big man because you're afraid they might step on a foot.

Playoffs are when you can take these risky gambles. We're set at the #2 seed for the most part, so we can coast and be less aggressive in March and April. Expect to see Sheed in the post more during the playoffs. That's when a player should leave it all on the court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
elton brand led the league in PER in 2006... carried the clippers to the playoffs.

If you can negotiate a trade for 2006 Elton Brand, I'd support you. If you get 2007 or 2008 year of Elton Brand, then you end up worse off. It's not a safe bet to trade your future for a max contract player who just sat out the whole year. If your objective is to look back and assemble the best possible team from years past, knock yourself out. It has nothing to do with the current state of the franchise, though.

Same goes for O'Neal. Turn the clock back to 2003-2004 to get a player worth his contract. Since then, he's shot poorly and missed almost half his games.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

We keep forgetting that we have the battle hardened, tough, experience of the playoffs mentality back. WE are the underdogs this year, and we thrive under it.
Were going to the finals.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

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Originally Posted by 20 Dimes A Game
We keep forgetting that we have the battle hardened, tough, experience of the playoffs mentality back. WE are the underdogs this year, and we thrive under it.
Were going to the finals.

In your first post, you agreed that we aren't going all the way, but now you say we're going to the finals. So, who do you think we'll lose to when we get there?
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

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Originally Posted by Patrick27
In your first post, you agreed that we aren't going all the way, but now you say we're going to the finals. So, who do you think we'll lose to when we get there?
No. I said that i agree with all the problems he presented in his various points.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

boston always scores in the paint. theo ratliff will have to have an amazing series if we are going to win.
KG in the high post to Glen Davis... easy bucket and a foul.

Please prove me wrong Pistons.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
boston always scores in the paint. theo ratliff will have to have an amazing series if we are going to win.
KG in the high post to Glen Davis... easy bucket and a foul.

Please prove me wrong Pistons.

From what I recall from our three meetings this season, it's been Garnett's jumpshooting and Pierce's handoffs to Davis or Perkins for easy scores that have plagued the Pistons. I don't recall an extraordinary amount of points in the paint from them beyond that. Allen hit some tough shots, and defensively they've shut down our offensive weapons, especially Prince. We can't expect him to take 10 or so shots if his main focus is on defending, so the shots should be dispersed elsewhere. I suggest heavy doses of Hamillton unless he's cold, then run the other plays for Sheed and McDyess. Chauncey knows well enough when to attack and when to distribute, and I think we can all trust his judgment at this point.

Maxiell has helped tons, and every time Boston starts stringing together points, he should be put back in. He's the only Piston to have a positive +/- in each game we've played.

For quick reference:
http://www.nba.com/games/20071219/DETBOS/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20080105/BOSDET/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20080305/DETBOS/boxscore.html

(I have all 3 games on my computer and I'll rewatch them before we meet them again)

Funny how easily you can fall off a bandwagon, wrath...
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

O'neal is not the answer. I said before the season even started we needed another big guy. I think the Ratliff move was the best Detroit could make at the time. He's a lock down defender and I think he will be an unsung hero in the playoffs should Detroit make the finals. At this point the Pistons can't give someone a max contract so hopefully through the draft there is a diamond in the rough. Detroit is a team that is built to match up with nearly everybody in the league. I think they have as good of a chance as anybody to win it all.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: Can We Go All The Way At This Point?

Well things have changed a bit since I made this thread.

The bench has really proven something. I think the Pistons can beat any team in the league when the starters are in rythm and the bench is hot.

I think we have a legit shot.
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