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Old 06-07-2008, 01:19 PM   #1
meanmonster
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Default Truth about the Nuggets

Greetings everyone...

I am a long time NBA fan and short term member of Inside Hoops. I usually frequent the boards to check up on what is going on and what trade rumors are flying in the off season. However, I really dont get some of the things that come off the Denver boards from the fans. Now, I'm not sure the age of the average Inside Hoops poster on this board, so that could be attributing to some of it or it could just be some sort of irrationality or blinders, but let me tell you all...

George Karl is NOT your problem.

I think many of the young fans who havent been around the game long see Allen Iverson- Marquee Name... Carmelo Anthony- Marquee Name and feel like they are entitled to winning 60 games and bringing home an NBA Championship. Uh, It does not work like that. You must have players that have chemistry, players that are TEAM oriented. Let's take a look of what Karl has to deal with.

Allen Iverson- self oriented player, rarely makes players better around him, never been a fan of practice or team, past his prime.

Carmelo Anthony- self oriented player, has not shown an ability to make players better around him, more worried about his "street rep" and his "home boys" , more worried about knocking beer down before the play offs as opposed to jumpers. (See DUI on night before play offs).... is that George Karl's fault? Is he his Daddy?

Kenyon Martin- Over Hyped since the start of his career, over his career averaged only 14 points and 7 boards ... and credit most of the pts to Jason Kidd tossing him 4 or 5 alley oops a game in Jersey. Cannot shoot the outside shot with consistency, never developed a good post game, so is he a 3 or a 4 (SF or PF for those younger kids here). He does not play great D anymore and is not 22 years old anymore.

Marcus Camby- Great defender... on the shot block end. Chronically injured almost every season it seems. At one time in his life was a decent post up threat, but now... not so much. He is not far from retirement.

JR Smith- A young gunner, never going to make those around him better, has improved his game but he has a shoot first mentality and Denver already has 2 of those getting 20 plus shots per game.

Chucky Atkins? Anthony Carter? Eww.

Kleiza can be a good role player in the right system, same for Najera.

Nene- can be a good player, not Karls fault he had a injury all year and came back out of shape for the playoffs...not Nene's fault either there. Just bad luck.

Look at what Karl is working with. A bunch of guys that seemingly were thrown together and do not compliment each other whatsoever.

Karl has improved his record each year since being with Denver despite the team he is working with. (32 wins -half season, 44, 45, and 50 wins - good enough for 4th or so in the Eastern Conference). Karl has an all time winning percentage around .600, and has won almost everywhere he went...including Milwaukee. Karl has not had a losing record since 87-88 season.

Did you guys actually think Denver could beat LA , with ANY coach in the playoffs.... that would be a laugher. Not ANY coach could do a better job with this team. The front office needs to be the ones having all the criticism.

To the naked eye, you see Carmelo... ohhh... Iverson... Ahhh.... but what you dont want to see is that Iverson is past his prime and Melo is not really worried about anything besides himself. He will be a chronic cancer much like Iverson has been his whole career "Practice! Were talking about Practice man!" Yes Allen, that is what teams do, something he has never understood.

If you wish to have a good team in Denver, one that can move through the playoffs changes MUST be made starting with the front office and adjusting your lineups. Iverson or Melo MUST GO, you must start getting some unselfish guys in Denver that can make others better...you must start getting YOUNGER and you must stop making the coach , George Karl, the scapegoat. He has done wonders with what he is working with and its not like if you get rid of him anyone will be beating down the door to coach AI, DUI Melo, and the over the hill Camby & Kenyon... once known as K-Mart when he was 20 something getting Ooops from J-Kidd.

Your problems are much more deeper than Coach Karl, believe me on this one.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

Thanks for your input, Coby Karl.
Anyways, what you did was you threw in the pros and cons of the players and then went on to praise George Karl for his "impressive" winning record. And then basically went on to say it's the players fault that this team has no chemistry whatsoever, it's the players fault that this team plays selfish ball and it's the players fault that they underacheived, oh and while you were at it, you threw in some shots at us and the players, which somehow makes it "the truth about the Nuggets".

It's the coaches fault just as much as it is the players and for you to say it's mainly the players fault and not Karls is as ridiculous as some of us who's been complaining and saying it's the coaches fault. A coach has many responsibilities, from teaching basketball, organizing practice, helping and developing the skills of players to coming up with a plan and strategy and selecting offense and defense during games, unfortunetly, Karl doesn't do those very well with Denver. Is it the players fault that their coach is as dumb/confused as they are and can't seem to come up with an effective gameplan to better utilize the players around him? Are the players at fault once again because their coach doesn't preach any defense?.
This is what Karl basically does, he plays and starts guys he prefers(see anthony Carter + Atkins) throws them into the game, sits and watches for 48 minutes with an uncaring attitude. He doesn't know when to call proper timeouts, for instance, lets say Denver is up by 10 points at the end of the 1st quarter in a game and in the 2nd, the opponent goes on a 15-3 run to start it off, so what would your average coach with a brain do? call a time out quickly to stop the bleeding of course, but what does George do? just sits there and lets the opponents lead get bigger and bigger until its too late. It's as if he enjoys watching them suffer.
Another issue with Karl is the horrible substitutions he makes during games in many occasions. For example, game 1 of the playoffs vs Lakers, Denver was down by 4 after the 1st quarter, in the 2nd, Denver chopped the lead and had a lead of their own by 9 points because Kleiza, J.R. and Najera played with each other perfectly. Those 3, especially Kleiza and J.R., were attacking and scoring at will against the Lakers during the 2nd and managed to score around 25 points together to help built the lead, so what does Karl do? Yanks them both out with about 3-4 minutes remaining to bring in AI and AC/Melo. Their went the perfect chemistry and all of a sudden the Lakers chopped down that lead and escaped with a 2 point lead to go into halftime. Bone headed move? hell yeah!.
Another issue with Karl is his massive ego, it's as big as some of his players,
for instance, J.R. was benched many games in the 1st half simply because he couldn't stand him and found him to be "immature". So, in his absence he plays guys like AC and Atkins, whose impacts were no way near the ones J.R. brought to the team and he showed it in the 2nd half of the season when Karl decided that he had learned his "lesson" and earned some playing time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
JR Smith- A young gunner, never going to make those around him better, has improved his game but he has a shoot first mentality and Denver already has 2 of those getting 20 plus shots per game.
Hmm, lets see, 22 years young and you're calling it right now that throughout the rest of his career, he will never make those around him better?. Lets not forget that Kobe and J.R. were very alike early in their careers, both are/were known for taking ill-advised shots, both known for sometimes making selfish decisions and taking alot of selfish shots, and finally both are/were also known mainly for their offensive abilities. So, how did Kobe turn out? perhaps the best player in the league right now? and he certainly makes those better around him now as opposed to his game early on. I'm not saying JR is going to be around Kobe's level in his prime by no means, but the point is is that, he is still young and has alot of room for improvement with a proper coach, but unfortunetly that coach is not George.

Heres a question for you:
Is it Avery Johnson's fault that his Mavs team couldn't win a championship, thus resulting in his release? Is it Mike D'antoni's fault that his Suns just couldn't beat the Spurs in the playoffs and never advanced to the finals which also resulted in his release? And finally, is it Flip Saunders fault, that after getting his team to the Eastern Conference finals 3 years in a row, the blame is mainly placed on him which also resulted in his release? The obvious answer is, no, but that's the thing with every organization. The coach gets the most blame and gets fired most of the time because it's alot easier to get rid of the coach than a player. But that isn't the case with George, hell, out of the 4 coaches I mentioned above, if you were to ask anybody, "Out of the 4, who should've been fired ASAP?", I'm willing to bet that they'd all say George Karl 1st, which by the way is a no brainer Mr. Stan Kroenke. Avery, Mike, and Flip have all managed to accomplish alot more with their former teams than George(1st round exit)Karl has been with the Nuggets, so why is it that while they get the boot, it's okay for George to come back to take the Nuggets to yet another 1st round exit in the near future? it makes no sense!.

I, for one am one of those fans that find George to be the main problem with Denver more than anything else, why? because of the things I've listed above and his style of play which isn't suited to win Championships.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

I have no problem with you or Denver. I'm looking as an ubiased opionion and sports columnist. I cannot blame Karl for much of anything, and when you have players that are self centered such as AI "Practice" and Melo "DUI" Anthony, who both need around 20 shots a game... I cant complain about Karl.

Quote:
Another issue with Karl is the horrible substitutions he makes during games in many occasions. For example, game 1 of the playoffs vs Lakers, Denver was down by 4 after the 1st quarter, in the 2nd, Denver chopped the lead and had a lead of their own by 9 points because Kleiza, J.R. and Najera played with each other perfectly. Those 3, especially Kleiza and J.R., were attacking and scoring at will against the Lakers during the 2nd and managed to score around 25 points together to help built the lead, so what does Karl do? Yanks them both out with about 3-4 minutes remaining to bring in AI and AC/Melo. Their went the perfect chemistry and all of a sudden the Lakers chopped down that lead and escaped with a 2 point lead to go into halftime. Bone headed move? hell yeah!.

So if George Karl keeps AI and Melo on the bench because of the great chemistry you so speak of... what happens when your main money dollar players are on the bench and the owners get on your arse. Its a money game sir, and any coach that keeps the money makers on the bench no matter what the chemistry is going to be gone regardless. Basically, you also verified my point that this is a players problem in Denver. You , a Denver fan, want to keep your marquee names on the bench in a crunch time play off game. A coach is counted on not only to coach, but to do so many other things. I am well aware of what a coaches duties are, but it is moreso the front office's duties to put a team out there that can play together more than anything... guys that have good roles and good attitudes. Guys that dont get drunk on the eve of playoffs. I have interviewed some of Karl's previous players, and they all have stated he runs great practices and prepares his team very well. Make a few phone calls to some of Karl's players, most of them will vouch for him. Not even Hall of Fame Legendary coach Larry Brown nor really anyone in Philadelphia had luck with AI, he was a coach killer.

Im not addressing your JR Smith eval, you lost credibility when you breathed his name with Kobe's... Im still laughing. And you guys were never going to beat the Lakers this year, no matter if Red Auerbach was your coach. You dont have the talent.

Bottom line is , you guys could have Avery Johnson or whoever coaching and I gurantee this team will not buy into hard work ethics and defense. You have spoiled players, who are too old to change their ways. The coach nowadays in the NBA , his job is more to do damage control and make sure the marquee players...play , and oh by the way win games along the way more than anything. The Nuggets have the pieces in order to make this team work... they can trade Melo or AI while theyre still worth something, Kenyon probably will not draw much interest... Camby has some worth due to his defensive ability at his older age. Smith might be of some value. They have draft picks... It's on the front office to make sure Karl has something to work with... this summer will tell alot. If Denver has the same team coming back, no matter who your coach is you are looking at 45 wins or so and another 1st round exit, guranteed.
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

The one thing I have been stressing out on the message boards is the word team. If you look at my numerous posts that is what I have been wanting for this Nuggets team.
George Karl is one of the problems facing this Nuggets franchise because ever since he's gotten here nothing has changed since Bzdelik was our coach. Yes, he has a good winning percentage with a number of other teams and he was a furious coach during those times. And the key word there is "was", Furious George is no more ever since his life flashed before his eyes, as well as his son's. Ever since his health problems was solved he has been less aggressive. I don't think he will be going back to his furious ways again.
The one main point I want to put out on George Karl is that you have to look at his whole resumé, not just the stats to see who he really is as a coach. When you look at it, you can see the many disputes that he has had with his star players of each team he has coached. And once he has left they became not just good players, but great players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
JR Smith- A young gunner, never going to make those around him better, has improved his game but he has a shoot first mentality and Denver already has 2 of those getting 20 plus shots per game.

This once again goes back to George Karl.
I am not just a Nuggets fan or an NBA fan, I am a sports fan who knows a thing or two about coaches of what works and what doesn't work. What J.R. needs is more playing time, if he is still in George Karl's doghouse he'll never get to play. You learn to understand the game by playing it in order to work on improvements. Maybe if and when George Karl leaves he will become a star in Denver and just like KRAYZIE said:

Quote:
I'm not saying JR is going to be around Kobe's level in his prime by no means, but the point is is that, he is still young and has alot of room for improvement with a proper coach, but unfortunetly that coach is not George.

You may laugh at this meanmonster, but J.R. could become the next Kobe and I am not joking with you. There is so much potential and so much bright years ahead of him you just don't know. That is why that one game last year that Adrian Dantley coach got me excited to see J.R. playing a lot and I think that allowed J.R. to go on his hot streak during the second half of the season, it's all about learning through games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster

Allen Iverson- self oriented player, rarely makes players better around him, never been a fan of practice or team, past his prime.

Carmelo Anthony- self oriented player, has not shown an ability to make players better around him, more worried about his "street rep" and his "home boys" , more worried about knocking beer down before the play offs as opposed to jumpers. (See DUI on night before play offs).... is that George Karl's fault? Is he his Daddy?

Kenyon Martin- Over Hyped since the start of his career, over his career averaged only 14 points and 7 boards ... and credit most of the pts to Jason Kidd tossing him 4 or 5 alley oops a game in Jersey. Cannot shoot the outside shot with consistency, never developed a good post game, so is he a 3 or a 4 (SF or PF for those younger kids here). He does not play great D anymore and is not 22 years old anymore.

Marcus Camby- Great defender... on the shot block end. Chronically injured almost every season it seems. At one time in his life was a decent post up threat, but now... not so much. He is not far from retirement.

JR Smith- A young gunner, never going to make those around him better, has improved his game but he has a shoot first mentality and Denver already has 2 of those getting 20 plus shots per game.

Chucky Atkins? Anthony Carter? Eww.

Kleiza can be a good role player in the right system, same for Najera.

Nene- can be a good player, not Karls fault he had a injury all year and came back out of shape for the playoffs...not Nene's fault either there. Just bad luck.

Allen Iverson is a great guy that can play some basketball and he may not make players around him better, but he does bring experience and has the desire to win a championship before he retires. The reason why he hasn't been able to produce last year was because the problem at the point. A.I. can't play the point, that is enough said. Again George Karl does nothing to address this. When talking about practice Iverson hates it as you know, but he has reason to hate it, he is good at playing the game. Once you get a point guard to pass all Iverson has to do is spot up and shoot.

Carmelo Anthony is a guy I have met while interviewing Chris Marlowe from Altitude and Melo is probably one of the humblest guy you will ever meet. Even though he pisses me off at times when he smiles after making a dumb mistake, it keeps things positive within the team. The reason why he and Iverson are so self-oriented is because they are so use to playing with their team on their back for so long. Iverson with Philly and Melo with Syracuse and the Nuggets for a few years. I think after last season they became more comfortable with a sharing role and next season they will understand the stakes to win it all.

Kenyon Martin brings so much intensity to a game, even though he carries a load of injuries with him as well as a bad rep in the streets with parties. K-Mart leaves all that behind when he is in the game. He is one of few players on this team that plays defense and you can see how much love he has for the game in his eyes.

Marcus Camby is getting old and he may get traded with the salary cap. He is a solid defender, but has been hit with injuries in his career. He doesn't post on the offensive side of the ball which is a minus in the game of basketball at the position of center. The greatest thing about him is that he doesn't have a bad reputation.

I agree with you about A.C. and Atkins. We need a real point guard on this Nuggets team whether through via free agency or the draft.

Kleiza is a great player with a bright future ahead of him because he can play both defense and offense.

Nene is a great young player that can dominate the post. Enough said!

The Nuggets are missing the most important piece in the game of basketball in a point guard, they also need a center who can post up offensively, and George Karl either change his coaching strategy or leave. This is the real truth about the Nuggets.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
I have no problem with you or Denver. I'm looking as an ubiased opionion and sports columnist. I cannot blame Karl for much of anything, and when you have players that are self centered such as AI "Practice" and Melo "DUI" Anthony, who both need around 20 shots a game... I cant complain about Karl.
I have no clue what an "opionion" is.....is it supposed to be some sort of a mixture between the words, opium + onion?, really tell me.
And I love the "I'm looking as an ubiased opionion and sports columnist" part because you come here and create a thread that praises that baffoon of a coach and bash the players, now if that doesn't sound biased, then I really don't know what does.
I also love how you keep referring to AI with the word "practice" and Melo with "DUI", immature much?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
who both need around 20 shots a game... I cant complain about Karl.
Get your facts straight because you're wrong again. Melo took 19.2 shots a game whereas AI took 19, so nice job "Mr. sports columnist".


Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
So if George Karl keeps AI and Melo on the bench because of the great chemistry you so speak of... what happens when your main money dollar players are on the bench and the owners get on your arse. Its a money game sir, and any coach that keeps the money makers on the bench no matter what the chemistry is going to be gone regardless. Basically, you also verified my point that this is a players problem in Denver. You , a Denver fan, want to keep your marquee names on the bench in a crunch time play off game. A coach is counted on not only to coach, but to do so many other things. I am well aware of what a coaches duties are, but it is moreso the front office's duties to put a team out there that can play together more than anything... guys that have good roles and good attitudes.
1st of all, we are talking about 1 game moron, not 2, not 10, not 40, not 100 games, but 1 measly game so get that through your thick head. Do you really think AI and Melo would've shi*ted themselves if Karl had kept both J.R. and Kleiza in that "1" game a little longer?
Yeah like the owner really gives a flying **** about which of his stars are riding the bench, as long as they're winning, why would he even give an ounce of sh*t?. If he really cared about his stars, well then why didin't he fire Karl ASAP after the game where they were swept by LA?. AI was noticebly very upset over being benched in the 4th by Karl and Melo was calling him out during the game, so let me quote you once again:
Quote:
what happens when your main money dollar players are on the bench and the owners get on your arse. Its a money game sir, and any coach that keeps the money makers on the bench no matter what the chemistry is going to be gone regardless.
So, what happens when you bench 1 of your star players in the 4th and get the other star player pissed off at you as a coach? the answer is....NOTHING!, if your name is George Karl. Yup, all is well, if you're George Karl, you get to update your playoff record with Denver to a horrible 3-16 and you get to keep your job after 4 consecutive 1st round exits, now that's a bargain eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
and any coach that keeps the money makers on the bench no matter what the chemistry is going to be gone regardless


Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Guys that dont get drunk on the eve of playoffs. I have interviewed some of Karl's previous players, and they all have stated he runs great practices and prepares his team very well. Make a few phone calls to some of Karl's players, most of them will vouch for him. Not even Hall of Fame Legendary coach Larry Brown nor really anyone in Philadelphia had luck with AI, he was a coach killer.

And that right there, is where you lost all your credibility because anyone can come to a message board and claim to have interviewed pro athletes. Hell, I don't know if anyone knew this, but just the other day, I interviewed Michael Jackson 1-on-1 in his island that he bought in Dubai and then once again in Neverland the very next day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Im not addressing your JR Smith eval, you lost credibility when you breathed his name with Kobe's... Im still laughing.

Dear god, what have I done, How dare I mention Kobe's name in the same breathe as J.R. Smiths.

I don't know wether you're retarded or not, but I specifically remember comparing the 2 at the early stage of thier careers and if you don't think that they are and were very alike early on in their careers, then you need to do some real research "Mr. Sports Columnist"

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
And you guys were never going to beat the Lakers this year, no matter if Red Auerbach was your coach. You dont have the talent.

Yeah because the Lakers had Kobe, Gasol, and umm bunch of guys whom the casual fans would have no idea of? while Denver only had Melo, AI, KMart, + Camby?. Replace George Karl as the Lakers head coach and watch all of a sudden how badly the Lakers defense becomes and their chemistry suddenly vanish.
I've stated this before, Karl can have all the talent in the world and it still won't mean sh*t because his system sucks, it's not built to win Championships. For instance, when George Karl coached Team U.S.A. in the 2002 FIBA world championship to a pathetic 6th place which was "the worst showing in history by a U.S. team at a World Championships."
Quote:
The U.S. team held a double-digit lead for most of the half, and Pierce's 3-pointer at the buzzer gave the United States a 50-40 lead at the break.
Spain closed with a 9-0 run as the American team failed to score in the final 2:38. Paul Pierce, the team's leading scorer, did not play in the fourth quarter -- a move coach George Karl admitted might have been a mistake.
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0907/1428856.html
LMAO, nice job coach, you f*cked up just like you did in game 1 against Lakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Bottom line is, if Denver has the same coach coming back, no matter which players you have, you are looking at 45 wins or so and another 1st round exit, guranteed.
*FIXED*
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

This thread would make an excellent book
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

From:
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Greetings everyone...
I am a long time NBA fan and short term member of Inside Hoops. I usually frequent the boards to check up on what is going on and what trade rumors are flying in the off season. However, I really dont get some of the things that come off the Denver boards from the fans. Now, I'm not sure the age of the average Inside Hoops poster on this board, so that could be attributing to some of it or it could just be some sort of irrationality or blinders, but let me tell you all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
I have no problem with you or Denver. I'm looking as an ubiased opionion and sports columnist.
To:
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Carmelo Anthony is a scrub. He is not a top 15 player. Joe Dumars certainly will not take a player who does not take play-offs seriously... i.e.... DUI pre Playoffs 2008.

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Old 06-09-2008, 09:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

haha nice


"GUYS I SWEAR I'M NOT BIAS OK?!?"




"CARMELO ANTHONY SUCKS, I WANT A NICE WELL BEHAVED BLACK MAN NOT THIS MEAN ONE!!"




I hate ageist idiots, "I'm 40 OK? I never graduated college but I'm SMARTER THAN YOU, YOU WHIPPERSNAPPER!"
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:38 AM   #9
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^^
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

What happened to meanmonster anyways, he hasn't posted anything since I posted last time. Maybe he went to George Karl to cry about how rough it was on the boards and wished he'd never joined.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Allen Iverson- self oriented player, rarely makes players better around him, never been a fan of practice or team, past his prime.
This alone makes me question your entire post, and I haven't even read it all yet. Anybody who has watched Iverson since he has gotten to Denver knows he is no longer selfish at all. Dribbling a bit too much doesn't make you selfish or self-oriented. Not wanting to pass or taking horrible bail out shots on a consistent basis is selfish. And Iverson doesn't do that. As for the practice thing... stop living in the early 00's. Iverson has no problems with practice. That whole incident was blown out of proportion.
Quote:
He does not play great D anymore
Martin was a very good defensive player last season.

Nobody is saying that Iverson + Melo should automatically equal 60 wins. People don't like Karl more because of what he makes his players do on the court. Their offensive and defensive sets, not his attitude nearly as much. Denver's offense is not very good. They score a lot of points, but their offensive sets are not elite. I thought the first sentence in your post would lead to a great well-thought out mature post, but it was hardly that. You're looking at this whole team all wrong. You're listing stereotypes, like the rest of the league does towards Denver.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6

Nobody is saying that Iverson + Melo should automatically equal 60 wins. People don't like Karl more because of what he makes his players do on the court. Their offensive and defensive sets, not his attitude nearly as much. Denver's offense is not very good. They score a lot of points, but their offensive sets are not elite. I thought the first sentence in your post would lead to a great well-thought out mature post, but it was hardly that. You're looking at this whole team all wrong. You're listing stereotypes, like the rest of the league does towards Denver.

correct. the nugget's main problems stem from the fact that their entire offense rests on melo and ai, and when their shots aren't falling, the whole offensive scheme falls apart. this wouldn't be that bad of a problem, as those two usually get a lot of shots to fall, but their defense is so atrocious that they often can't outscore their (playoff) opponents. if the nuggets want to go deeper, they need to find a way to get crucial stops and improve their overall defense. their offense will take care of itself for the most part, though i think the chemistry of this team was shown to be tenous at best (notice how much the chemistry goes down when they're losing? fair weather friends...)
i'm not sure what the nugs need to do to fix this team, but my gut tells me they need to trade melo. he's their most valuable trade piece, and if they are looking to make a championship run now, they need to replace him with a better all-around player (obviously a defensive upgrade, and don't get someone with significantly worse offense). all they need then is a decent pg, and they have the makings of a good team.
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:00 AM   #13
tgan3
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default Re: Truth about the Nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmonster
Greetings everyone...

I am a long time NBA fan and short term member of Inside Hoops. I usually frequent the boards to check up on what is going on and what trade rumors are flying in the off season. However, I really dont get some of the things that come off the Denver boards from the fans. Now, I'm not sure the age of the average Inside Hoops poster on this board, so that could be attributing to some of it or it could just be some sort of irrationality or blinders, but let me tell you all...

George Karl is NOT your problem.

I think many of the young fans who havent been around the game long see Allen Iverson- Marquee Name... Carmelo Anthony- Marquee Name and feel like they are entitled to winning 60 games and bringing home an NBA Championship. Uh, It does not work like that. You must have players that have chemistry, players that are TEAM oriented. Let's take a look of what Karl has to deal with.

Allen Iverson- self oriented player, rarely makes players better around him, never been a fan of practice or team, past his prime.

Carmelo Anthony- self oriented player, has not shown an ability to make players better around him, more worried about his "street rep" and his "home boys" , more worried about knocking beer down before the play offs as opposed to jumpers. (See DUI on night before play offs).... is that George Karl's fault? Is he his Daddy?

Kenyon Martin- Over Hyped since the start of his career, over his career averaged only 14 points and 7 boards ... and credit most of the pts to Jason Kidd tossing him 4 or 5 alley oops a game in Jersey. Cannot shoot the outside shot with consistency, never developed a good post game, so is he a 3 or a 4 (SF or PF for those younger kids here). He does not play great D anymore and is not 22 years old anymore.

Marcus Camby- Great defender... on the shot block end. Chronically injured almost every season it seems. At one time in his life was a decent post up threat, but now... not so much. He is not far from retirement.

JR Smith- A young gunner, never going to make those around him better, has improved his game but he has a shoot first mentality and Denver already has 2 of those getting 20 plus shots per game.

Chucky Atkins? Anthony Carter? Eww.

Kleiza can be a good role player in the right system, same for Najera.

Nene- can be a good player, not Karls fault he had a injury all year and came back out of shape for the playoffs...not Nene's fault either there. Just bad luck.

Look at what Karl is working with. A bunch of guys that seemingly were thrown together and do not compliment each other whatsoever.

Karl has improved his record each year since being with Denver despite the team he is working with. (32 wins -half season, 44, 45, and 50 wins - good enough for 4th or so in the Eastern Conference). Karl has an all time winning percentage around .600, and has won almost everywhere he went...including Milwaukee. Karl has not had a losing record since 87-88 season.

Did you guys actually think Denver could beat LA , with ANY coach in the playoffs.... that would be a laugher. Not ANY coach could do a better job with this team. The front office needs to be the ones having all the criticism.

To the naked eye, you see Carmelo... ohhh... Iverson... Ahhh.... but what you dont want to see is that Iverson is past his prime and Melo is not really worried about anything besides himself. He will be a chronic cancer much like Iverson has been his whole career "Practice! Were talking about Practice man!" Yes Allen, that is what teams do, something he has never understood.

If you wish to have a good team in Denver, one that can move through the playoffs changes MUST be made starting with the front office and adjusting your lineups. Iverson or Melo MUST GO, you must start getting some unselfish guys in Denver that can make others better...you must start getting YOUNGER and you must stop making the coach , George Karl, the scapegoat. He has done wonders with what he is working with and its not like if you get rid of him anyone will be beating down the door to coach AI, DUI Melo, and the over the hill Camby & Kenyon... once known as K-Mart when he was 20 something getting Ooops from J-Kidd.

Your problems are much more deeper than Coach Karl, believe me on this one.


allen past his prime? His playing better then ever with more assists. Dono wat the heck ure talking abt.

Jr smith has potential. Hes a gunner, but do you know hes currently the 20th best 3 pt shooter in terms of 3pt%? I see no problem letting him shoot if hes open.

marcus camby- was defensive player of the year not long ago. still has it, no offensive skills but he makes it up for his defense.
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