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Old 06-16-2008, 04:16 PM   #31
2LeTTeRS
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
Where did I put him over Amare?

I wasn't speaking about you. I quoted Silverbullit and he, like about 75% of all the people who would take Dirk over Amare is a Mavs fan. Doesn't just apply to you though. FireMcFailPlease is a Wolves fan and he looks to be campaining for Al Jefferson over Amare, and loot is a Clips fan and he is saying he'd take Elton Brand over him. Those are all cases of homerism, I was just pointing out one of the ones you see the most on these boards because of the number of Mavs fans.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by west
amire is not a leader or best player of the suns,steve nash make him look good,just like stockton and malone but malone is better player than stockton:)

how did nash make amare look good this year when he didnt look all that good himself? malone and stockton play different positions so how can you say malone is a better player?
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:31 PM   #33
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by Rab
Offensively, yes. But, he does not impact a game like KG or Timmy, and won't impact a game like they do until he plays defense and becomes a better rebounder.

kg's 'impact' is overrated, he has made no impact in the playoffs at all. i agree amare has to step it up on D, lets wait and see how much he improves now that he gets to play a full season at pf and plays for a coach who actually wants the team to play defense.i think because of the style phoenix plays people dont realize how nice this cat is. im not saying he's better then duncan or kg,i personally would take him over them both.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

KD, I am not without my homer moments. But I try to at least have an arguement to back up my opinion. And I have to acknowledge Amare's age and athleticism. But that's not to say that depending on the circumstances and players around them, there are times I would prefer Dirk.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by omarnyc
how did nash make amare look good this year when he didnt look all that good himself? malone and stockton play different positions so how can you say malone is a better player?
at least steve is MVP,he still avaeage over 10 assists a game.(mostly pass the ball to amire)
would you rather have stockton or malone in your team???
and as a decent big man,average over 10 rebound is a gold standard,on his defense,he's only thinking about make some 'heroic block shot'

Last edited by west : 06-16-2008 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
KD, I am not without my homer moments. But I try to at least have an arguement to back up my opinion. And I have to acknowledge Amare's age and athleticism. But that's not to say that depending on the circumstances and players around them, there are times I would prefer Dirk.

I agree with you. Dirk would compliment a star big man better than Amare, while Amare probably does better with a swing or pure point guard than Dirk. I'll admit ts not a big difference between what the 2 produce on the court though, it just comes down to playing style.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by west
at least steve is MVP,he still avaeage over 10 assists a game.(mostly pass the ball to amire)
would you rather have stockton or malone in your team???
and as a decent big man,average over 10 rebound is a gold standard,on his defense,he's only thinking about make some 'heroic block shot'

where are the stats to show that most of nash' 10 ass came on pases to amare?
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

Scoring aside, Amare's 3.7 personal fouls per game were the third worst in the league this season, and he totalled the second-most fouls at 294 in 79 games. Duncan had 185 fouls in 78 games. Garnett had 163 in 71 games. Needless to say, that's some serious foul trouble, and leads one to question his defensive skills/IQ. Not to mention, he either has no real passing game, or he's never gone out of his way to show it. The great thing about Duncan/Garnett is that they can help others score, and get others open looks. They've shown it time and time again. Duncan's averages 3.1 assists for his career, with the highest in any season at 3.9 APG (2002-2003), put up 3.3 APG this post season. That is very good for a big man. Garnett only gets better. Garnett averages 4.4 assists for his career, with the highest at 6.0 APG in 2002-2003, put up 3.3 APG thus far this post season. 6 assists per game from a PF, can you ask for more? Now look at Stoudemire. He averages 1.3 assists for his career, with the highest in any season at 1.6 APG (2004-2005), put up 0.4 APG in the first round this postseason, 0.6 APG last postseason...

I'm not going to argue that stats are everything, but "ignorance" to me, would be assigning Stoudemire to greatness based on his scoring average alone. There's more to a player than that. It's not an individual game, at least for a franchise big it shouldn't be.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by omarnyc
where are the stats to show that most of nash' 10 ass came on pases to amare?
as somebody said it before,'Does Amare have any offense outside pick and rolls and pick and pops???'
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
I wasn't speaking about you. I quoted Silverbullit and he, like about 75% of all the people who would take Dirk over Amare is a Mavs fan. Doesn't just apply to you though. FireMcFailPlease is a Wolves fan and he looks to be campaining for Al Jefferson over Amare, and loot is a Clips fan and he is saying he'd take Elton Brand over him. Those are all cases of homerism, I was just pointing out one of the ones you see the most on these boards because of the number of Mavs fans.

Dirk is a franchise player, Amare never was.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by omarnyc
kg's 'impact' is overrated, he has made no impact in the playoffs at all. i agree amare has to step it up on D, lets wait and see how much he improves now that he gets to play a full season at pf and plays for a coach who actually wants the team to play defense.i think because of the style phoenix plays people dont realize how nice this cat is. im not saying he's better then duncan or kg,i personally would take him over them both.
His defensive impact inside is noticable. His rebounding is noticable. His effort is noticable. These are all qualities Amare lacks. Amare's impact on a game usually is only on the offensive end of the floor, so that alone makes KG impact>Amare's. I'm as big a fan of Amare's as anyone, but I also see major flaws in his game that if he worked on, would push him over KG.

I think there is a fine line with the system the Suns played, and Amare's willingness to put effort into being a good defender that contribute to his defensive woes. Certainly you can attribute effort into why he's not a better rebounder. He simply doesn't go all out to get a board and often lets his man overpower him. Terry Porter can only teach so much, but it will ultimately be up to him to commit to defense and rebounding.

Last edited by Rab : 06-16-2008 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by Silverbullit
Dirk is a franchise player, Amare never was.
No offense, but I find this to be a remarkably asinine comment. Dirk is older, has been in the league longer, and has also had good help around him. I fail to see how he is any more of a franchise player than Amare. I mean, Amare did average 30Pts on 54% Shooting, 10 Rebounds, and 2 blocks in the 04-05 playoffs. I fail to see how that's not a face of a franchise.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullit
Dirk is a franchise player, Amare never was.
when people thinking about mavs it's all about dirk,on the other hand people think about suns it's all about steve nash and why they keep beaten by spurs...
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:35 PM   #44
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti404
No offense, but I find this to be a remarkably asinine comment. Dirk is older, has been in the league longer, and has also had good help around him. I fail to see how he is any more of a franchise player than Amare. I mean, Amare did average 30Pts on 54% Shooting, 10 Rebounds, and 2 blocks in the 04-05 playoffs. I fail to see how that's not a face of a franchise.

Yeah, but they lost 4-1 to the Spurs, and haven't gotten past them since.

Dirk has had his embarrasing moments too, but HE HAS beaten the Spurs before, with pretty decent numbers that post-season. Then beat the Suns that year, and went on to the Finals. Not to mention, his MVP award.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:54 PM   #45
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Default Re: Stoudemire is already best power forward

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Originally Posted by Rab
Offensively, yes. But, he does not impact a game like KG or Timmy, and won't impact a game like they do until he plays defense and becomes a better rebounder.
Agreed!
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