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Old 06-18-2008, 05:18 PM   #1
final.wrath
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Default Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Denver still hasn't fired George Karl? Send Melo to Detroit where he can actually grow as a player. Michael Curry will demand discipline and respect and the locker room environment here will be good for him. I understand it would be very hard to lose a franchise player like Carmelo... but the West is going to be stacked for years to come and I doubt you are going to go anywhere with Melo. Iverson is a better player than him at this point and you're better off making a run with him in the short term and then rebuilding.

Personally I'd be willing to make this deal, how do you feel Denver fans?

Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Rasheed Wallace, 2010 1st Rounder
-for-
Carmelo Anthony, Nene, Chucky Atkins


I think pairing Iverson with Billups in the backcourt would work well. His 3-pointer would open up the floor and his size makes him an ideal partner for AI. Also, Denver is his hometown and his veteran presence would make him valuable for the 3 guaranteed years left on his contract. A good mentor for the young guys.
Tayshaun would be a decent start to replace Melo's impact at SF. He is underrated offensively, and would definately improve his scoring average on a new team, especially one that likes to run. He's excellent in transition and his defense on the perimeter is something Denver sorely lacks. Did you know he has a great jump hook in the post too?
Not only is Rasheed Wallace one of the best defensive PFs in the league, he also has an expiring contract that would give Denver some cap relief at the end of the season. Pairing him with Camby would be scary on D.

From Detroit's side of things, they are giving up a lot. However, I think we realize that the Pistons core will not get it done and its time to rebuild around Stuckey and Amir. Adding Carmelo to that young core would put us right back in the mix in a few years. Sending 3 of our starters may be a little much but I think thats what it takes to snatch a young superstar like Carmelo. Detroit needs a guy like that who can be a go-to scorer and create his own shot at will. I think it would do Carmelo immense good to get out of Denver and into a situation where responsibility, respect, and hard work are demanded. When he's motivated he looks like a top 10 player (olympics), but in Denver its like he's only interested in scoring points and partying. If he's traded to Detroit I can guarantee he will develop better.

However, in real life GMs are a bit more stingy. This deal is a little more balanced in my oppinion:

Chauncey, Tayshaun, Maxiell, McDyess, #28
-for-
Carmelo, K-Mart, Atkins


Don't forget that Maxiell is a better than you realize. He has good footwork and touch in the post, a consistent midrange jumpshot, great quickness/footspeed to go with Denver's fastbreak attack, and is an awesome shotblocker on defense. Just my oppinion, but I'd rather give up Sheed than Maxiell. Why? Age, potential, and the fact that Max is a better rebounder and more willing to bang down low.
Plus, Denver would love to get rid of K-Mart's contract. McDyess is an expirer if you didn't know.

Which of the deals would you rather do and which is more realistic?

Last edited by final.wrath : 06-18-2008 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

no- neither of them are realistic

why would we ever give up carmelo? and you want nene

why dont you take iverson to the next level?

how about billups, wallace& whatever(theo?) for iverson, camby,& klieza? that is the best deal that i can come up with for these two teams that seem fair- iverson has a huge expiring deal, camby has 2 years left and klieza is still on his rookie contract- imo camby& klieza are the 4th & 5th most important peices on this team so i feel like we are giving you alot but i could see how pistons could want more

nba teams just cant let go of players as good as melo imo- until the are into the last part of their careers- look how it payed of for boston realising they could always have a chance to rebuild w peirce

thank you for giving us carmelo in the first place, you already had your chance- i do not believe that the nuggets will trade carmelo- i think that the talks are a cover for where iverson ends up getting traded- det, nj, ny or wherever- there is no better rebuilding peice than a 20 million dollar expiring contract that will give you 25+ points per game
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
Denver still hasn't fired George Karl? Send Melo to Detroit where he can actually grow as a player. Michael Curry will demand discipline and respect and the locker room environment here will be good for him. I understand it would be very hard to lose a franchise player like Carmelo... but the West is going to be stacked for years to come and I doubt you are going to go anywhere with Melo. Iverson is a better player than him at this point and you're better off making a run with him in the short term and then rebuilding.

Personally I'd be willing to make this deal, how do you feel Denver fans?

Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Rasheed Wallace, 2010 1st Rounder
-for-
Carmelo Anthony, Nene, Chucky Atkins


I think pairing Iverson with Billups in the backcourt would work well. His 3-pointer would open up the floor and his size makes him an ideal partner for AI. Also, Denver is his hometown and his veteran presence would make him valuable for the 3 guaranteed years left on his contract. A good mentor for the young guys.
Tayshaun would be a decent start to replace Melo's impact at SF. He is underrated offensively, and would definately improve his scoring average on a new team, especially one that likes to run. He's excellent in transition and his defense on the perimeter is something Denver sorely lacks. Did you know he has a great jump hook in the post too?
Not only is Rasheed Wallace one of the best defensive PFs in the league, he also has an expiring contract that would give Denver some cap relief at the end of the season. Pairing him with Camby would be scary on D.

From Detroit's side of things, they are giving up a lot. However, I think we realize that the Pistons core will not get it done and its time to rebuild around Stuckey and Amir. Adding Carmelo to that young core would put us right back in the mix in a few years. Sending 3 of our starters may be a little much but I think thats what it takes to snatch a young superstar like Carmelo. Detroit needs a guy like that who can be a go-to scorer and create his own shot at will. I think it would do Carmelo immense good to get out of Denver and into a situation where responsibility, respect, and hard work are demanded. When he's motivated he looks like a top 10 player (olympics), but in Denver its like he's only interested in scoring points and partying. If he's traded to Detroit I can guarantee he will develop better.

However, in real life GMs are a bit more stingy. This deal is a little more balanced in my oppinion:

Chauncey, Tayshaun, Maxiell, McDyess, #28
-for-
Carmelo, K-Mart, Atkins


Don't forget that Maxiell is a better than you realize. He has good footwork and touch in the post, a consistent midrange jumpshot, great quickness/footspeed to go with Denver's fastbreak attack, and is an awesome shotblocker on defense. Just my oppinion, but I'd rather give up Sheed than Maxiell. Why? Age, potential, and the fact that Max is a better rebounder and more willing to bang down low.
Plus, Denver would love to get rid of K-Mart's contract. McDyess is an expirer if you didn't know.

Which of the deals would you rather do and which is more realistic?

Both of these deals suck from the pistons side and I'm surprised you think they're good. The second trade is basically prince, billups, mcdyess, and our first rounder for melo. I'd much rather have maxiell than k-mart, a lot younger and a lot cheape rand i just think he's better in general. Atkins would do nothing for the team, we already have enough guards and his age doesn't help. So then it comes down to giving 3 starters (and keeping sheed, the one we need to get rid of) and our 1st for melo? First trade is just as bad. Only thing I would do is Prince, Sheed, Billups for Melo, Camby, and Nene/K-mart. Or Sheed+something for melo. As for realistic none of them, Joe D isn't that stupid.

Last edited by detsportsfan3 : 06-18-2008 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

how about billups, wallace& whatever(theo?) for iverson, camby,& klieza?

although I don't like AI, that deal isn't half bad. Pistons get a real center in Camby, someone to replace billups, and a promising young player.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

i think these two teams should just stay away from each other in trade talks:)

denver shouldnt part with melo and detroit shouldnt part with tayshaun
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Horrible deal on Detroit's part. If Chicago wouldn't gut their team for Kobe why should Detroit gut theirs for Carmello. If Anthony lands in Detroit it needs to be a more fair deal than that.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detsportsfan3
Both of these deals suck from the pistons side and I'm surprised you think they're good. The second trade is basically prince, billups, mcdyess, and our first rounder for melo. I'd much rather have maxiell than k-mart, a lot younger and a lot cheape rand i just think he's better in general. Atkins would do nothing for the team, we already have enough guards and his age doesn't help. So then it comes down to giving 3 starters (and keeping sheed, the one we need to get rid of) and our 1st for melo? First trade is just as bad. Only thing I would do is Prince, Sheed, Billups for Melo, Camby, and Nene/K-mart. Or Sheed+something for melo. As for realistic none of them, Joe D isn't that stupid.

i don't understand your perspective. if we have a chance to get melo we need to take it. superstars are very hard to land and a young one like melo who we could pair with stuckey, aflallo, max/amir would help us in the long term tremendously. sure i'd give 3 starters for him.

getting rid of billups would be a positive because a) it allows stuckey to start, and b) he is declining and has the biggest contract on the payroll. he would be able to contribute to denver for those 3 years of guaranteed money owed to him, but on our roster he's just holding stuckey back.

why do we need to get rid of sheed? he is the best defender on the team, is not a chemistry problem, and has a great relationship with our new head coach. Sheed can be a poor man's KG for us at this point, and thats not something I would take as an insult. you talk about dumars not being stupid like you know what he would do... yet you're the one blaming Sheed and he's saying the opposite. Sheed's contribution to the team would be much harder to replace than Chauncey's, Rip's, or Tay's. Of course I'd be willing to deal Sheed if we get back a go-to star.

duh you'd rather have maxiell instead of martin. thats not the point. the point is to be realistic. denver wants to shed salary and has even shopped camby for cap relief. martin has one of the worst contracts in the NBA and his knee could easily give out again. so I'm sure if they were to trade melo they would include nene or martin in the deal to help their cap situation. just like NY is trying to get rid of max contract Randolph by including their #6 pick.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Quote:
why would we ever give up carmelo?
because with the package I proposed you'd have a better shot at the championship. the carmelo/ai experiment obviously failed horribly with an 8th seed and then missing the playoffs entirely. after the DUI he's more tradable than ever. you think you can build a team around this guy? you're handcuffed in terms of the salary cap and won't be able to perform bad enough to get top lottery picks. the easiest way to repair this team is to trade melo for a package like the one I proposed. otherwise you're going to bite the bullet and be a fringe playoff contender for another 5 years, while Melo gets more frustrated and his development is stunted in a bad environment.


Quote:
and you want nene
no actually I don't. but Denver would probably love to offload his overpaid, often injured, low basketball IQ ass. he's just a backup right now, he has a ways to go before he's more than a cap liability for anybody. his potential doesn't make up for his salary.

Quote:
why dont you take iverson to the next level?
because he would hurt stuckey's growth as a player with his tendancy to dominate the ballhandling on offense and tries to win the game by himself. with the right supporting cast he could lead a team far. especially if he got big man who can score like rasheed.



Quote:
nba teams just cant let go of players as good as melo imo- until the are into the last part of their careers- look how it payed of for boston realising they could always have a chance to rebuild w peirce
I understand that, but perhaps Melo has rubbed ownership the wrong way and they feel they can't build a championship team around him. You have to have very good roleplayers to win with a pure scorer like Melo. Trading him for a few pieces would revamp the team better than trading AI. Nobody would trade equal value for Iverson. To soften the blow of losing Melo you get hometown hero Chauncey who would keep the seats filled. And if we traded Sheed, Tay, and Chauncey you know Denver would have a good chance of going deep in the playoffs.


Quote:
thank you for giving us carmelo in the first place, you already had your chance- i do not believe that the nuggets will trade carmelo- i think that the talks are a cover for where iverson ends up getting traded- det, nj, ny or wherever- there is no better rebuilding peice than a 20 million dollar expiring contract that will give you 25+ points per game

as for giving you carmelo... denver wanted darko over him. they wanted to trade up to get #2. thats how hyped darko was. in the end we got stuckey for darko so we'll see how good rodney is and until then the jury is out on not picking melo, or preferably it would have been bosh at #2 not melo.

nobody's going to give up anything major for iverson. he'd be a one year rental and his style of play is very tricky to build around. trading melo would be the easiest way for denver to get a good team again. otherwise if you want to keep melo its going to be like Boston with Pierce... bad/mediocre for a long time.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

b) he is declining and has the biggest contract on the payroll. he would be able to contribute to denver for those 3 years of guaranteed money owed to him, but on our roster he's just holding stuckey back.

that makes no sense, cause in return we get k-marts and melos contracts which are like $13m each now with 3 and 4 years left. Chaunceys is $10m now w/4 years left. So if you think this is a good deal money wise you're wrong.

Sheed is not a chemistry problem? he doesn't even go in the huddle when the coach calls a play. Melo doesn't have the best attitude either. I want sheed gone cause he's gotta stop making excuses, put up or shut up.

And still, you think we should trade 3 starters for melo? Rebuilding and tearing down are two completely different things. Tayshaun is a better defender and can be just as much as an offensive chance if he has the chance. melo has always been #1 or 2 on his team when prince has been forced to play lesser roles, melo in detroit would not produce the same numbers as he would in denver, and prince would play much better on a team like denver. I don't consider the gap between them to be worth an all star in billups, mcdyess, and our first rounder AND then downgrading from maxiell to marton.

Last edited by detsportsfan3 : 06-18-2008 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

You never trade 3 starters (2 of which are all-stars) for one great player. You can't fill the rest of your holes on your team. Here's K-Marts stats the last three years

05-06 Played in 56 games, averaged 12.9ppg, and 6.3rpg
06-07 Played in 2 games, averaged 9.5ppg, 10rpg
07-08 Played in 71 games (finally), averaged 12.4ppg, and 6.5rpg

Tell me why Detroit would get rid of Maxiell and replace him with Martin again? A young up and coming PF without a history of injury problems that could be a starter for more than 10 years to come or a guy that has a few years left and who knows if he makes it through the season, and which do I take??? Do I even need to answer that? Do you really think Maxiell doesn't have the potential to average 12ppg and 6rpg? I would say he does. So I take the guy who can play for the most amount of time possible.

I don't mind losing Billups. It's not that he's on the decline, it's not that he isn't my favorite Detroit player. He's definately one of the best PG's in the NBA. The only reason I don't mind giving up Billups is because Detroit has Stuckey and it's obvious he's the future. The kid is going to need playing time because we don't want him to leave when he has the option to. So you're correct with that. Billups is a very attractive piece we could use to get another very good player in Detroit.

If Detroit trades for Carmello, Prince almost has to be in the deal. They play the same position and Prince is definately a starter in this league.

There's no reason to just throw Sheed or Maxiell or McDyess in this deal. All three of them are capable of putting up better numbers than Nene or Martin.

In order to make the deal work money wise Denver would have to include someone like Atkins and the teams may have to do something with money and draft picks.

Atleast that way it's only two starters and you are getting one in return. Let's not make suggestions to have the Detroit Pistons play in the western conference. Don't gut the core of the Pistons, tweak it. They were the second best team in the NBA. They don't need a rebuild. They need a tweak. Same for the Nuggets. They aren't a bad team. Let's not gut them either. They could use some help on defense, and Billups & Prince would be a lot.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Just to make this easy:

Billups & Prince > Carmello

Carmello & Stuckey > Billups & Prince

Billups, Prince, & Sheed >>>>> Carmello

It's a win/win when just trading two starters, because we have Stuckey on the bench, they get a great PG (which is necessary in the west) and a durable defense minded SF who can score and shoot well too. When you give up 3 starters for 1 it's a win/lose because now the Detroit Pistons who have played in 6 straight ECF + AI are now in the western conference. Detroit just has Carmello. Carmello + Stuckey are not enough to even go to the conference finals, let alone being able to talk about titles.
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

There is going to only be one way for the two teams to reach a deal that will satisfy both teams and it doesn't involve Melo.

The Nuggets have a franchise player in Melo and will keep their money with him because he is the reason why this organization has been so successful since he has gotten to Denver. EVERY YEAR we have made it to the playoffs thanks to Melo. He may have off the court issues, but the fact of the matter is he leaves all that behind and plays the game. Letting go Melo is like the Lakers losing Kobe or the Cavs losing Lebron. There is no way Melo will be traded to Detroit. The only reasonable trade out there on the market is Melo for Dirk. I have spoken to many people on this Melo issue about being traded and all of them have said the same thing. Melo is going to be traded only to a team that is willing to trade their own superstar.

There is no way in hell Nene is leaving Denver. He has been through a lot in terms of injuries, but he is the future along with Melo and J.R. Nene reminds me of a bigger Lamar Odom who can punish defenders inside. We could have let him go last year for some big names, but we are trying to stay young.

The Pistons on the other hand are trying to get young, but with your idea of giving us your old veteran player is just plain out idiotic. Both teams are trying to become younger and that is why the Nuggets are keeping Nene, Melo, J.R., and Kleiza.

For all I care we could give up Camby, A.I., Atkins, and Martin to you for Billups, Sheed, Prince, and McDyess. Not will that only clear up cap room with A.I. and K-Mart out, but with those guys on the Nuggets team we could play better, since we would have a veteran pg, a great defender in Sheed, a playmaker in Prince, and a hustler in McDyess. If I told you that, would you make the trade? No! Because it wouldn't be fair to you guys and your idea of giving old guys to us is what you think is fair? B.S. man we want to get young just like you guys, so we can have a confident future with many bright years ahead and the only way we can do it is with Melo.

Here is the only way Detroit and Denver is willing to make a trade: (doesn't involve Melo)

Kleiza and Camby for Billups and Sheed. That is the only way things will go down between the two teams. You guys get young with Kleiza and get a center that can play tough defense. The Nuggets get a much needed veteran pg and Sheed who is just a playmaker offensively and defensively.

Another thing I would like to add is that there is no way Martin is going anywhere because no team is willing to take his hefty contract, is Joe D. really that stupid to you? Are trying to make both teams worse?

CaptainOwlClub is right, Boston built their team around Pierce, which they should have done along time ago and now that they have done that they won their 17th championship. ON any team, you must always build around your star player to not only make them better, but to make your whole team better as a whole. With Melo, J.R., Kleiza, and Nene the future is bright and with some more pieces we are not that far away from a championship my friend.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

billups for kleiza? Yeah, that'd work

Last edited by detsportsfan3 : 06-19-2008 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 03:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

For Melo's sake I want him to go to Detroit, while I love watching him here in Denver, it's in his best interest to go to Detroit where he could actually develop into a hall of fame player.
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Send Carmelo to Detroit... we'll take him to the next level.

Melo doesnt need 2 go anywhere

Billups, Prince, & Sheed & Rip, Ratliff >>>>> Nene, Najera, Kleiza, Carter & Atkins

(Nene, Najera, Kleiza, Carter & Atkins) They are the bad apples on the team idk why they are still on denver..& they mos def need 2 get rid of coach karl he jus doesnt have wat it takes 2 win as a coach. Send him 2 Miami & Seattle or somn haha
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