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Old 06-23-2008, 03:18 AM   #1
CaptainOwlClub
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Default why did it come to this?

why did the nuggets from the inside-out put themselves in such a bad spot? was this trying to teach carmelo a "lesson" gone wrong? shouldnt the bosses have let him know early that they had a lot of hard trading to do and to play it cool? does this lose leverage for nugs in trades now?

the karl still being hc is baffling- how much power he may or may not have is scary- but aside from the hc situation

i have hope right now- they are trying to do the right thing right now- they know they have to move half the roster

here is the bad part- moving iverson & others isnt going to get us billups, marion, bargnani, hinrich, or rasheed wallace type players

any trade will almost have to be multi team and multi player and we could do better in the trade without grabbing a star player in favor of 2 or 3 rotation players-

is there any other option than complete overhaul right now?

i am not trying to hate on iverson, but i really am interested in his trade value- shouldnt all of these teams that are cutting salary love to get ai?

it has to be done on thursday- most all the roster movement & all the decisions all coming within days- nugs HAVE to move half the roster and they HAVE to break into this draft- im excited

seattle, memphis, new york, milwaukee, & new jersey- lets "help" these teams out and fix ourselves at the same time

Last edited by CaptainOwlClub : 06-23-2008 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Thinking logically is no way to figure out what the Nuggets Organization is going to do.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Here's where it is at right now: Melo with out a doubt is going to be a Nugget this coming season.

The Nuggets need to start making some moves come draft time on Thursday. It doesn't matter if we get two or three more draft picks in the draft and giving up a guy like Camby and another Nugget.

I think this Nuggets Organization has realized now that Melo cares about what is going on with the team and now they can build around him knowing that they have confidence in him.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: CaptainOwlClub

it has to be done on thursday- most all the roster movement & all the decisions all coming within days- nugs HAVE to move half the roster and they HAVE to break into this draft- im excited

seattle, memphis, new york, milwaukee, & new jersey- lets "help" these teams out and fix ourselves at the same time

I agree with every single thing you said right here. The Nuggets current roster is expensive and it won't get them anywhere next year if we just barely got into the playoffs this year. Drastic changes is needed. I am excited too because we have A.I. for another year and this is one of our last chances to keep the Melo and A.I. combo together. What I say is, don't just build around Melo this year, build around both A.I. and Melo so they can both benefit.

Those teams you listed are in much needed help and we have a few players that may help those teams improve dramatically. As well as the players they have can help us.

Quote:
why did the nuggets from the inside-out put themselves in such a bad spot?

I don't think they put themselves in a bad spot, I think they did this to get attention from other teams to let them know that they are opened to any possibilities for a trade. As well as to know if Melo is really committed to staying in Denver after having a bad playoff series.

To me I think this is a good start for the Nuggets before draft day arrives because it is giving us as fans a chance to take a glimpse of the things that may go down on Thursday.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Crew


I am excited too because we have A.I. for another year and this is one of our last chances to keep the Melo and A.I. combo together. What I say is, don't just build around Melo this year, build around both A.I. and Melo so they can both benefit.


i strongly believe that building around carmelo AND iverson is impossible- it just doesnt work

perfect iverson peices were already in place- the team was built around iverson- ac, kmart & camby- how else could you try to build around ai? those are the type players needed to "build" around aI

the amount of time iverson needs to have to ball in order to "get his" is not something that fits any kind of team structure(at least not when its a team like the nugs w other competent scorers)- comparing that to jr smith imo is a totally different kind of player- jr can take all the shots he wants without massive amounts of setup moves- jr can take the same amount of shots as iverson without dominating the ball and playing so much 1 on 5-

the main reason imo that the nugs have to unload iverson is defensively- a veteren like iverson shouldnt be so 100% resigned to the fact that he should always draw the weakest opponent- iverson is so immature as a basketball player that he wont even try expending any of his famous "energy or heart" on defense

we dont need a gunner that plays no defense- imo jr smith is a better gunner and he at least tries to cover someone-

no top scorer in the league has to cover the other teams #1 wing- except carmelo- why? beacause ai cant

jr smith makes the denver nuggets a much better team than iverson does- i do not believe that there is a single team in the league that wants iverson on their sqaud right now- but that doesnt mean you wouldnt have to keep trying to unload him-the expiring contract has to be valuble to someone- i hope

this is not a video game- iverson and melo are not a good combo- it is so cute when people put stuff like
pg- iverson
sg- jr smith
sf- melo

but this is not reality- nugs have a HUGE hole at pg and have 2 gunners at the sg spot

nuggets have been in nuetral for 2 years now- keeping ai and losing smith would be putting the organization in reverse- all i want is for this thing to start moving foreward again

i believe that carmelo and jr would be the top scoring tandem in the league, just like ai & melo- the difference would be that those players games fit each other

so i guess you could build around iverson, by trading melo & jr for devin harris and a wing defender(artest) but why??? why not just get a point gaurd because you already have the 2 and the 3?
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub

i strongly believe that building around carmelo AND iverson is impossible- it just doesnt work

perfect iverson peices were already in place- the team was built around iverson- ac, kmart & camby- how else could you try to build around ai? those are the type players needed to "build" around aI

Was the perfect iverson pieces really in place? I personally think it wasn't because who was the pg last year, Carter or Atkins...or was it Iverson himself? Carter is not a legit point guard and you are telling me he is the perfect piece to complement A.I. in the backcourt and with that said this was the smallest back court in the league last year. Camby didn't spread the offensive floor last year because his inability to post on the offensive side of the ball.

The players you need around to build around BOTH A.I. and Melo is to have a Center who can post up on offense and play some solid defense inside. As well as having a REAL point guard. Along with a bench that can fill in for both those guys. Look at Boston, they had Pierce, Allen, and Garnett. They had Rondo who is one of the good-average pg's even though he is young and lack experience, but he plays defense, passes the ball and can shoot the jumper. Kendrick Perkins posts on both sides of the ball giving the big three on the team a chance to score with ease.

Nice to know that Carter was the perfect poing guard to complement Iverson!

Quote:
the main reason imo that the nugs have to unload iverson is defensively- a veteren like iverson shouldnt be so 100% resigned to the fact that he should always draw the weakest opponent- iverson is so immature as a basketball player that he wont even try expending any of his famous "energy or heart" on defense

we dont need a gunner that plays no defense- imo jr smith is a better gunner and he at least tries to cover someone-

Iverson for the most part is staying with the Nuggets, if he's not traded. I'm not saying that Smith shouldn't start, but we all know Karl won't start him. We need to think about this realistically, we need to put all our fantasy stuff aside and think about what we have and what we need to have.
The only thing Iverson does on Defense is gamble for the steal and make a few blocks for us last year. What do you expect him to do after being a scorer all his life? Just like the old saying of not being able to teach a old dog new tricks. J.R. is the second best player on this team alongside Melo imo, but Iverson is in his way and the only person who has a say in who starts is you know who, and who between Iverson and Smith is he going to choose?

Quote:
no top scorer in the league has to cover the other teams #1 wing- except carmelo- why? beacause ai cant
A.I. is too small to cover those guys

Quote:
jr smith makes the denver nuggets a much better team than iverson does- i do not believe that there is a single team in the league that wants iverson on their sqaud right now- but that doesnt mean you wouldnt have to keep trying to unload him-the expiring contract has to be valuble to someone- i hope

I agree with you here because J.R. brings intensity to the game and can change the game in an instant. I want Iverson to be unloaded too, but it's not what you and I want, but what the Nuggets organization want and to them Melo and A.I. is like a dream team.

Quote:
this is not a video game- iverson and melo are not a good combo- it is so cute when people put stuff like
pg- iverson
sg- jr smith
sf- melo

but this is not reality- nugs have a HUGE hole at pg and have 2 gunners at the sg spot

Did I say I wanted Iverson to start at the Point? Hell no! All I'm saying is that Iverson and Smith can substitute for each other throughout the game. There is no way Iverson can play the point. I never liked this idea of playing Iverson at the point. This really pisses me off because I never wanted or said this in any of my posts of starting Iverson at the point.

When you said the second part of not reality and the Nuggets have a huge hole at the point, you proved my point on building around Melo and A.I., let me tell you one thing, Building around the two is the same as building around Melo only because J.R. can step into A.I.'s role and whoever plays the point can distribute.

Quote:
nuggets have been in nuetral for 2 years now- keeping ai and losing smith would be putting the organization in reverse- all i want is for this thing to start moving foreward again

i believe that carmelo and jr would be the top scoring tandem in the league, just like ai & melo- the difference would be that those players games fit each other

so i guess you could build around iverson, by trading melo & jr for devin harris and a wing defender(artest) but why??? why not just get a point gaurd because you already have the 2 and the 3?

In many of my numerous posts and threads I created I always talk about J.R. being the most important part to this Nuggets future, I never said I wanted to let go J.R.. A.I. is expendable and is a good bait for any team who wants to trade with us, but if we have A.I. we mine as well use him.

To me the games of Melo and the other two will fit perfectly no matter what the only thing is three pointers and defense will change. It's all about who we get to play the point.

Build around Iverson my ass, he is too old and if Philly couldn't do it we can't.
But with the help of Melo and a great pg and a center we could be a team to watch in the west. Melo and J.R. are going to play together for years to come if the Nuggets get J.R. back, but for right now A.I. is going to be part of the team and is going to start.

Once Iverson gets traded then we can start talking about J.R. at the two guard. Overall it's about what the organization wants and not what we want.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Crew
Once Iverson gets traded then we can start talking about J.R. at the two guard. Overall it's about what the organization wants and not what we want.

And what does the organization want? Ticket sales. AI puts people in the seats, he will be here for the remainder of his career.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Poste by OneMoreSucka

And what does the organization want? Ticket sales. AI puts people in the seats, he will be here for the remainder of his career.

Look at the statistics about the Nuggets tickets sold per game the past years and compare it to when A.I. got here, when Melo came to Denver he was the one to put the fans in their seats. Since we got A.I. the number of people at the games is pretty much the same as it was before. You don't see a sell out crowd everynight, you pretty much don't see the place even filled since A.I. got here, it is the same as before.

Why do you think the organization didn't talk to him about signing a multi year contract?
The answer is because he is aging and with guys like J.R. ready to take his place, he may be out the door if they don't make it to the Championship or even past the first round for that matter.

It's about winning that puts people in those seats. Compare the seats to the playoffs and regular season. When they are in the playoffs the place is packed and pretty much sold out. Think about it did A.I. put people in their seats during the playoffs in 2006, 2005, and 2004, no Melo did. For the NUGGETS it's all about winning, with A.I. or not that is why they tried to use him in the failed trade with Detroit. The Nuggets aren't worry about ticket sales right now they are worried about winning to keep the fans excited and happy.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Touche...

The only thing I hope for this season is for karl to try some different starting lineups, mainly ones with JR. In the games he started last year, he put up huge numbers. He's just a bomb waiting to go off...

By the way, anyone know when the 08-09 schedule will be announced? Gotta plan which games to go to!
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreSucka

The only thing I hope for this season is for karl to try some different starting lineups, mainly ones with JR. In the games he started last year, he put up huge numbers. H

jr is one of the only players on the roster NOT to start a game- anthony carter, yakouba, jelani mccoy - those are all guys who started games for the nugs, i believe at least 10 different nuggets started games- but no jr smith

one time, as far as i remember, jr started a second half- i still remember the look on kmart & camby's face as they laughed about something while they looked around and noticed that they were out there with the best 5 players on the team for the first time all year

jr not starting could not and did not go unnoticed by the others- g karls power play was in no way hidden or effective-

when you play on any team at any level of any sport the players will not buy into the coach if the coach does not give an honest effort- not playing a player because the coach doesnt "like" him is very junior high- the only way this becomes more junior high is when the nugs sign coby karl and use him over jr or even melo

i dont think its just me "liking" jr- i strongly believe that karl knowingly forfited the season by not using the team he was given- in different times it would be called treason and karl would be killed- it is mind boggling that karl's treason didnt lead to him being fired- i say kill is maybe? too much, but atleast fire
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

You're right, he hasn't started. I thought he started in that game against chicago where he went for 43, but he didn't, which in itself is amazing that he put in that much off the bench.

Another option I would like to see is Karl using JR like Pop uses Ginobili. Bring him off the bench about 5-6 minutes into the 1st and let him get in 33-36 minutes a game.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

That was a crazy game, he hit like 8 3-pointers in that game.
Another great game of J.R.'s was the one against Memphis, where he scored 25 points and hit 7 ridiculous 3-pointers all in the 4th quarter and overall ended up scoring 27 points in only 21 minutes.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

If I was JR I would request a trade immediately, his career is being wasted here in Denver. Honestly if I was Carmelo I would give them the ultimatum; fire Karl or I'm gone. As long as Karl is here the Nuggets will continue to make the playoffs based solely on the fact that they have a TON of good players but will never go all the way because of Karl.

I mean look at the teams that advance in the playoffs, look at their coaches. Are there any good teams with bad coaches?
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geandily
If I was JR I would request a trade immediately, his career is being wasted here in Denver. Honestly if I was Carmelo I would give them the ultimatum; fire Karl or I'm gone. As long as Karl is here the Nuggets will continue to make the playoffs based solely on the fact that they have a TON of good players but will never go all the way because of Karl.

I mean look at the teams that advance in the playoffs, look at their coaches. Are there any good teams with bad coaches?

Coaches don't win rings...PLAYERS do..... since Doc Rviers wasn't close to winning whene he was at his previous stops.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

J.R. has given us many great memories in the past year especially during the second half of the season. The Chicago game was the sh*t and the game that he started the second half was against Toronto. I remember we were down 15 after the first qtr. and came back to win the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paguy1955

Coaches don't win rings...PLAYERS do..... since Doc Rviers wasn't close to winning whene he was at his previous stops.

I agree with you that the players are the ones playing, but here is the reason why Karl should be fired.

1. He doesn't call a timeout when things go wrong in the game, like when they are up ten and give up that lead cutting it down to a two point lead. And they end up losing the game. Coaches who calls timeout in these situations that I've seen are Popovich, Jackson, Riley, D' antoni, and many other great coaches in the game.

2. Not starting a young player in J.R., who needs to gain experience to get better.

3. When a lineup is helping him win the game, he changes the lineup for no apparent reason. Just like in the playoff game against the Lakers, we had J.R., Kleiza, Najera, Iverson, and Camby on the court getting us tied and he changes it and puts in Martin and Melo. Don't change something that works!

If he doesn't put J.R. on the starting lineup at least let him play at least 25 min. and at most 35 min.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: why did it come to this?

Not playing JR is definitely one of the dumber things that Karl does, I'd fire him on that alone...
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