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Old 06-25-2008, 02:34 PM   #31
jtfacts
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posterize246
Raymond Felton 5'11.5"
Mo Williams is 6'0.5"
Earl Watson is 6'0" even
Jameer Nelson 5'10.25"
Mike Conley 5'11.75"
Chris Paul 5'11.75"
Brevin Knight 5'9.5"
Jannero Pargo 6'0.25"
Nate Robinson 5'7.75"

There's your 6'0" and under starters. Of those players...6 are regular starters, Brevin Knight has started over 2/3 of his nba games, Pargo has become a regular contributor,and Robinson is droppin 14ppg. Out of the league in 5 years?

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-...&pos=&s ort=1

oh yeah I forgot. Laugh if you want but Sebastian Telfair was the starting point guard for the TWolves last year.

I was laughing at that Sebastian Telfair one. I never thought he should come out early, but in hindsight it was the best decision. Make that money when you can.

This was a good list Posterize and I appreciate your due dilligence. Let's examine the list, shall we. How many championships do any of these guys have? Outside of Chris Paul, I don't believe any will ever have a chance at one.

I actually liked Brevin Knight, but he suffered from the short disease and could not defend bigger people. Many times you see non-playoff teams with these short guys.

Let me make myself CLEAR. Short guards can play in the NBA, but just not as an EFFECTIVE STARTER. Yes they can assist and maybe even score some points, but they give it back on the defensive end because of their short handicap.

Last but not least. Orlando will never go past the second round with Jameer Nelson starting. He could be an effective backup.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:09 PM   #32
mattreis62
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

You are way too hung up on height. Do players use the top of their heads to block shots? No, they put up their hands and jump, so you have to take wingspan, standing reach, and leaping ability into consideration.

DJ Augustin-

Height (w/o shoes): 5' 10"
Standing reach: 7' 10.5"
Wingspan: 6' 3.5"
Max Vertical: 35"

Chris Paul-

Height (w/o shoes): 5' 11.75"
Standing reach: 7' 9"
Wingspan: 6' 4.25"
Max Vertical: 38"

So while Augustin is nearly 2 inches shorter than Paul, he compares favorably in several other physical measurements. Paul isn't the greatest defender, but I think he does all right. Players like Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams are always going to be a problem for players like Paul and Augustin. Then again, players like Billups and DWill are a problem for anyone who guards them. I mean, Steve Nash measured 6' 1" without shoes and he can't guard anyone.

This is why I think Beasley will be fine as a PF. He only measured 6' 7", but his wingspan, standing reach, and max vert are all very similar to Kevin Love's.

Last edited by mattreis62 : 06-25-2008 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:18 PM   #33
Posterize246
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
This was a good list Posterize and I appreciate your due dilligence. Let's examine the list, shall we. How many championships do any of these guys have? Outside of Chris Paul, I don't believe any will ever have a chance at one.

Here's the 6'2" or taller (most are 6'3") who also don't have a ring.

Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Jose Calderon, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, Kirk Hinrich, Rafer Alston, Gilbert Arenas

Asking how many have a championship off that list is really a weak argument. Look at the great big guards who don't have one. What I'm getting at is DJ Augustin isn't expected to LEAD his team to a championship. All he has to do is be a piece. Would you have ever thought Rajon Rondo would have a ring? Of course you wouldn't if you go by the way you're looking at it. But the guy is 6'1" with a ring. Because he was a piece of a championship team. Put Felton or Jameer or whoever in his place and the Celtics still win the title and would be better even. Derek Fisher is 6'1" with 3 rings. Because he was a piece of a title. The guy's best average in that 3 year playoff run was 13.4 ppg and and 3 apg (the '00-'01) playoffs. His best regular season of that 3 year playoff run was '01-'02 when he averaged 11.2 ppg and 2.6 apg. DJ couldn't do that? I think you're looking too much at how point guards can't be the best player on their team to get to the championship, and maybe they can't, but if you can get a good role player at the back end of the lottery there's nothing wrong with that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...fishede01.html

Last edited by Posterize246 : 06-25-2008 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:24 PM   #34
jtfacts
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

I do not like short (clarification 6'0"' and below) guards that start because historically they do not start for very successful teams. I do like them for backups but not starters and there is a big difference. You guys are giving me examples of short guards, but most of them do not belong on successful teams. Rondo and Parker are over 6'0". Paul is an anomaly. Every so often in history you get an exception to the rule and Chris Paul is the exception. I know the difference between 6'1" and 5'11" are 2 inches , but historically it matters alot. As a matter of fact, the more I look into it, 6'1" may be the ideal height for a point guard. I need to do further research on this.

Let's count the number of guards 6'0" and below that started for any team in the Eastern or Western conference finals in the last 20 years. Posterize, none of the guys you mentioned earlier would qualify. I know this seems like a statistic that shouldn't matter, but it does. ONLY Avery Johnson started for a championship quality team.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:34 PM   #35
Posterize246
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
I do not like short (clarification 6'0"' and below) guards that start because historically they do not start for very successful teams. I do like them for backups but not starters and there is a big difference. You guys are giving me examples of short guards, but most of them do not belong on successful teams. Rondo and Parker are over 6'0". Paul is an anomaly. Every so often in history you get an exception to the rule and Chris Paul is the exception. I know the difference between 6'1" and 5'11" are 2 inches , but historically it matters alot. As a matter of fact, the more I look into it, 6'1" may be the ideal height for a point guard. I need to do further research on this.

Let's count the number of guards 6'0" and below that started for any team in the Eastern or Western conference finals in the last 20 years. Posterize, none of the guys you mentioned earlier would qualify. I know this seems like a statistic that shouldn't matter, but it does. ONLY Avery Johnson started for a championship quality team.
4 conference finals teams a year x 20 years = 80 point guards. I'm not about to count all that up. And most of the point guards I listed have been in the league less than 4 years. How many point guards get that far in their career period?
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

He reminds me alot of a prime Damon Stoudemire, when he is playing for the Toronto Raptors, and i am sure Augustin would turn out to be a top 5 PG In the NBA by 2010.
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