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Old 06-28-2008, 09:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Taking charges under the rim is dangerous, and that was what was happening. When charges are taken too close to the rim, players are defenseless and they were basically being undercut. Players are worth too much to risk that.

spoken like someone how has never played a game of ball... If you see a guy taking a charge, guess what its called a pull up jumpshot. But I wouldnt expect kids today to know about that because the charge circle hates pull up jumpers. I mean pull up for a 8 -10 footer off the glass when you can go into the auto-free throw zone and run into a stationary defender and get 2 shots.

Stern turning bball into a womens sport, wait even the women allow more contact the stern. And the women arent scared of a charge

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Old 06-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

My playing career was ended in highschool by a guy who slid in to take a charge under rim. I broke the wrist on my shooting hand and tore ligaments in my shoulder. Game over. I had to resort to player soccer because I lost my stroke. My shoulder did not get strong again until my sophmore year of college. I got injured during my sophmore year of high school.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

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Originally Posted by gencbiba
That's going way too far. I watch, and I would never make that comparison...

Every game in basketball, certains players flop almost every drive. If you watch Premier league, most flopping has been stopped because they get in trouble now. Which is why the NBA is going to start to do that.

There is like 3-4 flops in a premier league game now. Sometimes less. In the NBA there are tons all the time.

In the Champions League finals there was only 1 flop. In the NBA finals, and the conference finals, people were flopping all over the floor.

I am 6 foot 10 265 pounds. It takes a lot of force for me to get me to fall to the ground. I have played with guys like Denham Brown from Bathurst Heights before. I have played with good ballers. There is no way guys like Wade and James should be flying all over the court when they get lightly bumped.

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Old 06-28-2008, 09:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
My playing career was ended in highschool by a guy who slid in to take a charge under rim. I broke the wrist on my shooting hand and tore ligaments in my shoulder. Game over. I had to resort to player soccer because I lost my stroke. My shoulder did not get strong again until my sophmore year of college. I got injured during my sophmore year of high school.
The restricted zone doesn't eliminate this. Players in the league today, many times, try to slide into position because of the zone. They try to beat the offensive player to the spot, and slide in late. The zone does deter this behavior somewhat, because some guys won't even try, but it still does happen. IMO, they need to eliminate the restricted zone, and call fouls when it's a foul. You can't stop defenders from trying to slide in and beat the guy to the spot by adding the zone. When refs start calling the game consistently, you won't have guys doing that.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

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Originally Posted by gencbiba
Damn, that ****ing sucks. I do agree with you, that taking charges that close to the rim is very dangerous, so the restricted area is useful in some ways.

Its not worth it though...ball is a contact game and injuries happen. You cant compromise the integrity of the game for that. I made a living of position defense and charges. Its the reason that at 6"5 and not extremely athletic I was able to become a good defender.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

A couple of feet would have gives players a chance to recover. You have certainty that the defender will attempt to take the charge outside of the semi circle.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with the restricted zone if the refs called contact correctly. Often times, even if the defender has established position before the offensive player gets to the spot, and the offensive player creates contact, it's called a block. IMO, the inconsistency combined with the restricted zone comes together to create a big incentive for the offensive player to just go right at the hoop and create contact. If that incentive was removed, it would be a better game. Either the zone needs to be removed, or refs need to start letting the defenders defend.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trax416
There is more flopping in the NBA now then the Premier league in soccer.

If you notice the rule changes, International basketball is actually a mans game.

In the NBA if a player puts three fingers on a guy like Wade or James they go flying 25 feet and act like they just died.

But you're the one arguing Stern is a good commish, right? You do know the rule changes were under his tenure, right?

You guys are missing out on a lot of history between FIBA and the NBA.

Don't expect these rules to impact as much as you think. There has been a constant battle for consistency between the NBA and FIBA ever since the NBA was allowed into FIBA and they've never been able to meet in between.

Back when Dream Team was formed, Jordan's team physically pounded the hell out of the foreign nations in the Olympics because back then the NBA was the most physical league in the world.

Fast forward to the Lebron James era team that only won the bronze and you will find that the exact opposite was true. FIBA is now a more physical competitor. The FIBA committee tried to adapt their game to be more compatible with the NBA so that their teams wouldn't be outmatched and humiliated again. Unfortunately the NBA did the exact opposite.

Stern has continually taken rules from FIBA, and/or tried to soften the league, and it has not been good for NBA basketball. Eliminating the hand check was not the first step.

Some of you aren't old enough to remember when the NBA moved the three point line from 23 feet 9 inches (at its furthest point) to 22 inches all the way around. In addition to not only being closer, the three point line was now the same distance at every point, because it was a half circle, instead of the old line that was straight on the sides and then flared out into a circle. Guys like Terry Mills and Cliff Robinson were suddenly dead eye three point shooters. The line was eventually moved back.

Other ideas at the time, there was talk of changing the shape of the key so that it was shaped like a trapazoid. Btw, for those of you who don't know, it's called "the key" because originally it was shaped like the old skeleton key holes.

Stern's answer was always that these rule changes would increase scoring and make the game more exciting to watch. The exact opposite has been true.

Instead the closer three point line made the NBA a league full of chuckers. NBA records were set for three point attempts (I think John Starks probably holds the record) and guys who had no business taking the shot were taking it.

Removing the hand check instead of giving the offense more freedom and making more scoring, slowed the game down because there were a lot more free throw attempts.

A lot of this stuff has been influenced heavily by international rules, and the Olympic committees decision to allow the NBA players to compete instead of just college kids.

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Old 06-29-2008, 03:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

All of this is pretty minor stuff. The biggest issue between NBA and the rest of the world is going to be the issue of buy-outs and compensation. NBA cannot go to Europe until this is resolved. The two systems are simply not compatible. On one hand you have a salary cap and draft, and on the other hand a largely free market.

I never did understand the American obsession with drafting players.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

I don't like many of these changes.

-The introduction of the rectangular lane.

If anything, I wish the NBA would adapt the trapezoidal lane. It vastly improves floor spacing, especially with the near-extinction of defensive three sconds.

-The introduction of the block/charge arc under the basket, where any foul called in that area is automatically a blocking foul.

Hate it. Hate it in the NBA, hate it any level. It's well intentioned, but is horribly enforced. Here's how you fix the charge or block ruling; NO CALL. There were countless plays this season where a guy would slide into position, in plenty of time, be completely set, but have his heels on the half-circle line and be whistled for a block. This is not the rule. Hate it, hate it, hate it. If you're able to get into position before the offensive players leaves the floor, completely set, I don't care how far under the hoop you are, it's either a charge or a no call. NBA has started making every instance of contact a foul on someone, and it's made the game near unwatchable.

-The move of the three-point line from 6.25 m (roughly 20 feet, six inches) to 6.75 m (roughly 22 feet, two inches)

Getting there. Never should have gone inside 23' 9" at any level.

-If a call results in a reset of the shot clock, they will only reset it to 14 seconds if it is under 14 seconds.

Good. Though I don't see why a reset to any period of time is needed. A shooting foul obviously results in free throws, which you should make. You miss and get the o-board the clock resets.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:38 AM   #26
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

I just hope the defensive 3 seconds rule (restricting zone defense), and the offensive goaltending rule will never come to Europe.

making the 2 leages play the same sport is a good idea. But they should take the good things from the other.

court size - NBA
3pt line - NBA
shot clock rles - NBA
restricted area - FIBA is way better
shape of the key - FIBA is way better
zone defense - FIBA
offensive goaltending - FIBA

I never understood the offensive goaltending rule in the NBA...
It's the stupidest thing ever.
If a player puts a ball in the basket wich was going to go in anyway, why do they take it away??? this makes absolutely no sense.
These kind of putbacks also make nice highlights, so I have no idea why the NBA calls it a violation...
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammertime
I never did understand the American obsession with drafting players.

What's the fair alternative? Free market means teams like the Knicks and LA hoard all the best players because they can afford to and the other teams can't.

It's like in baseball, where the Yankees can go over the cap as long as they pay the penalty (or at least that's how I understand it, I don't watch baseball anymore.)

At least in basketball, the Knicks can go over the cap and have to pay the luxury tax, but there are still other rules in place to keep them from just signing whoever they want. They still have to be within a certain percentage of salaries with each trade they make, they can still only sign free agents when they are under the cap except for the LLE, MLE, and veteran minimums. There's probably more restrictions I can't think of off the top of my head right now.

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Old 06-30-2008, 06:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

Who decides on NBA rule changes? what steps does it go through to come into play.. I know there's a rules committee that i think pops is involved in...
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: FIBA changes international rules...

I like the rule changes, and i think Team USA will have an advantage in the 2010 FIBA World Championship.
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