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Old 06-30-2008, 10:53 AM   #16
DeuceWallaces
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Darko has a bad attitude and came into a bad situation. He came from the depths of poverty and couldn't handle the NBA lifestyle adjustment. On top of that he thought he should be given minutes instead of earning them. In his defense, #2 picks don't earn minutes; they are given minutes. Unfortunately for him he was on a championship team with Larry Brown as the head coach.

His situation couldn't have been much worse.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTicket
You forgot one thing, all the ones you listed berate you in private and defend you in public, as they should. Larry Brown berated him in public, which is altogether different.
Bull ****. Phil Jackson, Bill Parcells, Tommy Lasorda, Zoran Slanic etc ether you in the media. Hell they will write books dissing players. Sports aren't the girl scouts grow a sack and get on your **** Darko.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:58 AM   #18
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTicket
You forgot one thing, all the ones you listed berate you in private and defend you in public, as they should. Larry Brown berated him in public, which is altogether different.

That would explain things if after Brown left, or if after he got out of Detroit he improved, but he had a 1 1/2 years in Orlando, and played last year in Memphis and still didn't show any real glimpses of greatness. He's just an average NBA center, the Euro version of Kwame Brown.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTicket
You forgot one thing, all the ones you listed berate you in private and defend you in public, as they should. Larry Brown berated him in public, which is altogether different.

Man please. Darko was a cocky, concieted, full of himself individual. He had a big head, believed the hype himself and expected to be rewarded. It was until he found out the NBA doesnt work that way especially on a veteran team that didnt need/depend on some young so called euro stud. His whole attitude was wrong and that is what did him in. He doesnt have confidence? Thats because he came to the professional league thinking he was more than what he really was.

The idea Larry Brown berating him in public is what stunted Darko's growth is no more BS than MJ making Kwame Brown cry. To me this is nothing more than a fan, a scout, a GM or whomever that watches Darko and there is something there they like. So because he's not fullfilling this "potential" we look for excuses and reasons why they arent successful. Its total BS because Darko shouldnt have gone #2 in the NBA draft from day 1. But because he had this magnificent individual workout where he HORSED some small trainer in drills displaying his "skills" in a non competitive enviroment? Now everyone sees this cross between Dirk-KG. Everyone wants to "GUESS" the next best euro thing.

No one has EVER made excuses for why the 7'0 Russian that Denver drafted Skita didnt pan out.

Did the coach berate him?
Did the team kill his confidence?
Did the team/coach/peers stunt his growth?
Did he battle injuries not allowing him to progress?

Not 1 peep out of anyones mouth in his defense. Why? Because not many were high on that stiff to begin with! Darko? He's had numerous attention, articles hyping him up. Skita really didnt. So people are less likely to defend that guy because they never had hype to buy or sell. Its more or less like "screw him".

Darko in Detroit? LB doesnt play rookies
Darko in Det without LB? He plays behind such and such
Darko in Orlando? Orlando doesnt know how to use him
Darko in Memphis? Uhh Uhh blame the previous teams for screwing him up because there is no excuse to be on a team as the main low post threat and not produce

If Darko was drafted late first round? No one would slam him as hard but the reason why? No one would be putting this false HYPE on him either.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
They are broken down similar to highschoolers now. The hype machine causes scouts to not pay attention to what they are actually doing on the court. The things that are being said about Rubio were being said about Roko Leni Ukic, Sergio Rodriguez, Milos Vujanic, Americans Sebastian Telfair, Kenny Anderson,and Randy Livingston

In the past you had to be a bonafide star in Europe to be drafted to the NBA. Dirk kinda changed that, even though it was obvious that if he moved up to the better divisions he would still be the man.

Stats differ in Europe because the games are shorter and stats are tabulated differently. Assists are rung up the way the NBA did them during the Cousy era. The ability to goal tend affects shooting percentages, and the closer three point line makes the 3 a joke.

That's news to me.
Although European players still dominate the 3 in international arenas.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

When the NBA had a closer three point line cats like Alonzo Mourning were spotting up from deep.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecthelion
That's news to me.
Although European players still dominate the 3 in international arenas.
The international three point line is 20' 6" at its furtherest point (which is less than a foot than the high school and NCAA three point line, which is at 19' 9"). The NBA three point line is at 23' 9" and even at it's closest point (22' in the corners), it's still well over a foot further than the international three point line.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
So because he's not fullfilling this "potential" we look for excuses and reasons why they arent successful. Its total BS because Darko shouldnt have gone #2 in the NBA draft from day 1. But because he had this magnificent individual workout where he HORSED some small trainer in drills displaying his "skills" in a non competitive enviroment?
Not really, even if he wasn't playing in a top league, Darko did actually show a really stunning talent in games.
I've never seen anyone that good that young, anyone who watched him thought he was star in the making.
What happened?
Well, he started believing his own hype, he was way too immature to handle fame and money, landed in a situation when all his mental limits were exposed.
It's not like scouts were just high at the time, it's that the effects of his immaturity were severely underrated, and the Pistons didn't do much in those first few years to help him develop from that point of view.
When you're investing so much on a kid you'd better do your best to make him succeed, I don't see anything in the way LB managed him that made me think he was trying to help him.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
The international three point line is 20' 6" at its furtherest point (which is less than a foot than the high school and NCAA three point line, which is at 19' 9"). The NBA three point line is at 23' 9" and even at it's closest point (22' in the corners), it's still well over a foot further than the international three point line.
thanks, but is the International 3 point line the same as the Euroleague line? Because every 2nd player, even the huge ogres seem to be consistenly knocking them down.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Got to remember Euro division is harder than college. Most of these young players don't play when their 18 cause the team+coach is afraid that these young prospects will go to the NBA and they'll lose their young players. They keep them on the bench for a while and when they get old they play. These young euro's that come in the league play good players in europe that are better than College players.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:19 AM   #26
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecthelion
thanks, but is the International 3 point line the same as the Euroleague line? Because every 2nd player, even the huge ogres seem to be consistenly knocking them down.
Yeah, Euroleague is consistent with the FIBA guidelines (which I assume means that they'll be changing the three point line to 22' 2" in 2010). I mean, Lebron was able make 62% of his three pointers in the Tournament of the Americas, when that happens, the line maybe a little close.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Just to point out , Yugoslavia doesn't exist so there are no Yugoslavian players.

And a lot European guys are soft and in this generation hardly anyone will be like Dirk , Tony..not even close.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:22 AM   #28
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Just to point out , Yugoslavia doesn't exist so there are no Yugoslavian players.

And a lot European guys are soft and in this generation hardly anyone will be like Dirk , Tony..not even close.
I think Dirk is the typical Euro player. IMO he IS soft. I just don't like huge 7 footers taking jumpshots.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Just to point out , Yugoslavia doesn't exist so there are no Yugoslavian players.

And a lot European guys are soft and in this generation hardly anyone will be like Dirk , Tony..not even close.


Hoping Galliniri is the next Dirk

But their's much more prospects from Europe and Argentina. Barginani still has potential and he can possibly be a Dirk or a Vladimir Rodmanovic( 0
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: People with a clue about euro prospects

my general feeling is that they're judged on athleticism and perceived upside (and less on actual production) even more than college guys.

first, rules are different (especially assists are harder to notch), games are shorter with smaller scorelines, rotations are deeper, team concept is valued much more instead of stars getting all the shots (very few guys average 20 ppg in europe, and virtually no one on the powerhouse teams averages more than 15-17) since the game is so different, scouts pay more attention to how will someone's skills translate in NBA than actual production. (and especially athletic abilities. some of best european players are guys that would be tweeners on NBA level or just plain don't have the athleticism. on the other side, guys like tony parker and mickael pietrus look awful in the FIBA game, but one is NBA all star and other is a serviceable rotation player)

second, even the great young prospects don't get minutes that easily, since the huge pressure is to win now and return the money for owners. the free market system doesn't allow for rebuilding and emphasizing young players NBA style. if you have money, you buy the best players you can - and investors want results ASAP. therefore, even though player can be a huge upside prospect - he'll have a hard time getting minutes over say, some NBA journeyman that can produce better right now.
and this holds true even more for big men, since post play is less emphasized anyways and young centers with potential rot on the benches.

one more thing, as someone noted, some teams even stash their young talents to hide them intentionally from NBA so they can sign them to long term contracts with huge buyouts which are nearly impossible to get out from.

i'll maybe add more thoughts later if i remember
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