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Old 07-01-2008, 11:22 AM   #1
picc84
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Default Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9739378

Quote:
LAS VEGAS The story was relayed by someone close to Jason Kidd in New Jersey, where Kidd returned after the disappointing end to the Mavericks' 2007-08 season.

During his career, Kidd has been accused of being a "coach killer," a label he has disputed. But he's aware of the talk, so when Avery Johnson was fired by the Mavericks, Kidd told a friend: "They can't blame that one on me. When I got there, the players all thought he was crazy. And he was."

Kidd smiled easily when the story was related to him Saturday after the U.S. Olympic men's basketball team went through its first practice.

When he joined the Mavericks after the Feb. 19 trade from the Nets, he thought Johnson would employ an up-tempo style that would take advantage of Kidd's considerable passing skills. Instead, he found that Johnson was a rigid coach who was a domineering presence on the sidelines.

"We ran the first couple of games," Kidd said. "And then we stopped. A lot of times, our offense was used to set up our defense. We slowed it down instead getting out and running and putting pressure on (opponents) after missed shots or even makes."

Kidd is at his best in the open court, operating without constraints and creating easy shots for teammates. But he found that he had little freedom with Johnson.

It was noted during the season that Kidd probably spent more time looking at the sidelines for instructions in three months under Johnson than he had combined in his 13-year career. When asked Saturday if he had any problem with that observation, Kidd said: "That's fair."

I always thought it was the weirdest thing to watch those Mavs games and he would bring the ball upcourt, pass it to Dirk 5 feet behind the 3 point line, and then go stand in the corner. It was almost like Avery was making Kidd a spot up shooter to intentionally utilize him as badly as possible.

If Carlisle runs the team and lets Kidd have the ball I expect we'll see a much better Mavs team then late last year/playoffs and they'll compete for a decent seed in the '09 playoffs.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9739378



I always thought it was the weirdest thing to watch those Mavs games and he would bring the ball upcourt, pass it to Dirk 5 feet behind the 3 point line, and then go stand in the corner. It was almost like Avery was making Kidd a spot up shooter to intentionally utilize him as badly as possible.

If Carlisle runs the team and lets Kidd have the ball I expect we'll see a much better Mavs team then late last year/playoffs and they'll compete for a decent seed in the '09 playoffs.

For all the Avery bashing thats gone on the weirdest thing to me is the type of ball he was trying to get the Mavs to play is the type that has been proven to win games. So the coach wanted you out of you're comfort zones? Toughen up and play. Without Avery Dallas has no heart, I expect to see a few more 1st and 2nd round exits out of the Mavs in the next 3-4 years.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

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Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
For all the Avery bashing thats gone on the weirdest thing to me is the type of ball he was trying to get the Mavs to play is the type that has been proven to win games. So the coach wanted you out of you're comfort zones? Toughen up and play. Without Avery Dallas has no heart, I expect to see a few more 1st and 2nd round exits out of the Mavs in the next 3-4 years.

That's true. But that was the whole problem with the Kidd trade, you can't play the half court iso heavy offence because Kidd becomes a liability. At least Carlisle will make make Kidd more effective and make the trade look better from a Dallas perspective.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

thanks a bunch for this article. most of the points are not new but it's great to get confirmation one more time. AJ did great things with the defense, but it's pointless to trade for a kidd and then pretty-much waste him. (hope you learned a lesson or two there, AJ)

actually kidd's numbers were pretty good post-trade. conspicuously low scorer of course, but bagged his usual number of high rebounds and assists, played his usual smart all-around game and was even a dangerous 3-pt shooter. how that happened i'm still not quite sure on. :O
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
thanks a bunch for this article. most of the points are not new but it's great to get confirmation one more time. AJ did great things with the defense, but it's pointless to trade for a kidd and then pretty-much waste him. (hope you learned a lesson or two there, AJ)

actually kidd's numbers were pretty good post-trade. conspicuously low scorer of course, but bagged his usual number of high rebounds and assists, played his usual smart all-around game and was even a dangerous 3-pt shooter. how that happened i'm still not quite sure on. :O

Well Avery never seemed like he wanted the deal, it was Cuban's baby and he forced it on Avery and then whined like a little child when things didn't magically come together like he expected (as usual). Then to make things worse, instead of taking the blame for making an already soft team even softer in the middle by dealing their best interior defender (and an Avery favorite), he fires his coach and hires a worse one to replace him.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

That trade was just never meant to workout. Simple as that.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Avery was trying to force a square peg in a round hole. That's just dumb.

Good coaches will adjust their systems around their best player's strengths, not the other way around.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

It was a stupid trade from the trade rumors to the actual finalized deal. Anybody with half a brain knew it was a terrible deal.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Devin Harris is overrated anyways. He's always gonna be a 15/6 type of guard.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

^ Thats bad?

I'd take that from my point guard anytime of the day!

I'm interested to see what happens in Dallas

Will Stackhouse and others resign?
How much slower will Kidd be?
Will Josh Howard give a damn?
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

It was just a bad deal based on their style of ball. Do you think its easy to alter your whole offensive plan half way through the year? No way. This was all Cubans fault. Granted, Avery couldve tried to utilize his strengths more, but you cant blame it on him. Cuban set him up to fail bc if you have watched Kidd over the years, you would know the Mavs style of offense is not one Kidd would excel in.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazersDozen
^ Thats bad?

I'd take that from my point guard anytime of the day!

I'm interested to see what happens in Dallas

Will Stackhouse and others resign?
How much slower will Kidd be?
Will Josh Howard give a damn?


Devin Harris ain'ta true PG. He can drive, and play good D thats about it. He's young and he should improve. But Kidd can lead a offense shoot the three better and put up like 16/10. Josh Howard does give damn, just because he smokes pot doesn't mean he doesn't try. They need to let Stackhouse go, he's garbage. They need to sign a big with their MLE and do some trades. Jason Kidd is a 20mil expirer too, that has ALOT of value. The Mavs are still a elite team as long as they have Dirk.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Devin Harris ain'ta true PG. He can drive, and play good D thats about it. He's young and he should improve. But Kidd can lead a offense shoot the three better and put up like 16/10. Josh Howard does give damn, just because he smokes pot doesn't mean he doesn't try. They need to let Stackhouse go, he's garbage. They need to sign a big with their MLE and do some trades. Jason Kidd is a 20mil expirer too, that has ALOT of value. The Mavs are still a elite team as long as they have Dirk.

No their not elite. Not right now. As of now they look like they lack a 2nd scorer b/c Josh never plays up to his normal level in the post-season, they have question marks around what Kidd will be able to produce given his age, and the fact that he's playing internationally this summer won't help. Thers a lot of milage on those old knees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
It was a stupid trade from the trade rumors to the actual finalized deal. Anybody with half a brain knew it was a terrible deal.

I agree. Unfortunately the Mavs are run like an NBA Live team, with no concern for chemistry or how well that player fits the coach's system. The line of thinking just seems to be how much talent and/or how big of a name they can get in Dallas instead of adding the type of guys to actually make the team better.

Last edited by 2LeTTeRS : 07-01-2008 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Devin Harris ain'ta true PG. He can drive, and play good D thats about it. He's young and he should improve. But Kidd can lead a offense shoot the three better and put up like 16/10. Josh Howard does give damn, just because he smokes pot doesn't mean he doesn't try. They need to let Stackhouse go, he's garbage. They need to sign a big with their MLE and do some trades. Jason Kidd is a 20mil expirer too, that has ALOT of value. The Mavs are still a elite team as long as they have Dirk.

But Devin Harris doesn't get burned everytime down the court by Chris Paul, Derron Williams, Baron Davis, Tony Parker and Allen Iverson like Jason Kidd. Devin Harris is young also while Kidd is going to be more than likely going to be thinking retirement when his contract is up. Don't get me wrong. I've loved J. Kidd since elementary school but he's almost done. His career is basically over and I don't think he can lead Dallas to the promise land. They also traded 1st round draft picks for this year and I think next year so they can't add any youth through the draft. Yes Stackhouse needs to go. They also need to let Malik Allen, Devean George, Juwan Howard, Antoine Wright and Jamaal Magloire walk and only resign Tyronn Lue and match anyoffers for Barea and completely rehaul their bench. They also need to get younger as their average age is 29.5. I think if the Spurs get younger this offseason then Dallas will be the oldest team in the league.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: Kidd was stymied by Mavs' slowdown game

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
It was just a bad deal based on their style of ball. Do you think its easy to alter your whole offensive plan half way through the year? No way. This was all Cubans fault. Granted, Avery couldve tried to utilize his strengths more, but you cant blame it on him. Cuban set him up to fail bc if you have watched Kidd over the years, you would know the Mavs style of offense is not one Kidd would excel in.

From what I have heard, Avery was pushing for Kidd. One problem with that though is that Avery cant run a offense and it showed
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