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Old 11-09-2008, 09:11 PM   #136
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
How is it "partisan" to state what most people agree on?
I'm not anti-euroleague or pro-nba more than you are the opposite, because you're proving nothing by just stating that half the NBA is of low quality (if this is so, then I guess it includes a lot of Europeans, since most Europeans, including a lot of Frenchmen and Serbs, are not able to play "top 50%" roles on their teams). Ask even European experts or journalists and there won't be more than a handle of probable anti-Americans to insist that the Euroleague can actually compete with the NBA in terms of quality. If I was wrong, Europeans wouldn't fare like crazy any time they beat an NBA team. Instead, they should be like "OK, we beat them, so what? They were not really supposed to beat us, anyway".

On Rudy, just check the lists of the best Europeans. A lot of people have Rudy in their lists.
I already recognised the deficiencies of the NBA, but I can't turn a blind eye to the deficiencies of the Euroleague as well, and the most serious deficiency is the clearly less talent. They are simply not talented enough. Sorry if you can't see that, but I've never ever seen the top Euroleague players doing consistantly what the top NBA players do. If Euroleague players were as talented, they'd be able to dominate the NBA equally easily, and they don't. Even the few Europeans who manage to put comparable numbers for their NBA teams (like Gasol) still don't dominate equally, because European scores are smaller and games shorter, meaning that if you score 20 in the NBA you may contribute 20% of your team's points, but if you score 20 in Europe, you'll contribute 25-30% of your team's points.

What you written is very partisan. The euroleague didn't revolve around Rudy Fernandez since he didn't even play in euroleague last year. There are a lot of bad players in the nba that couldn't even make rotations on good euroleague teams and the quality of half the nba is puke bad. Most of the nba isn't fun to watch.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:57 PM   #137
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
What you written is very partisan. The euroleague didn't revolve around Rudy Fernandez since he didn't even play in euroleague last year. There are a lot of bad players in the nba that couldn't even make rotations on good euroleague teams and the quality of half the nba is puke bad. Most of the nba isn't fun to watch.

And 80% of all Euroleague players wouldn't be able to find any spot at an NBA roster.
OK, Rudy didn't play in 2008 in the Euroleague. Blame the system, which wants only 4 Spanish teams in the Euroleague. If he did, he'd easily be among its best players. He played in 2007, at the age of 22 and did pretty well. Next year was the season he really took off. No reason to believe he wouldn't be a Euroleague star.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:21 PM   #138
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

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Originally Posted by Psileas
And 80% of all Euroleague players wouldn't be able to find any spot at an NBA roster.
OK, Rudy didn't play in 2008 in the Euroleague. Blame the system, which wants only 4 Spanish teams in the Euroleague. If he did, he'd easily be among its best players. He played in 2007, at the age of 22 and did pretty well. Next year was the season he really took off. No reason to believe he wouldn't be a Euroleague star.

80% of euroleague players not finding a spot in the nba has to do more with politics than ability. If Nicolas Batum can play in the nba than a lot of euroleague players can play in the nba.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:50 PM   #139
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

How the best players in the EL would fare in the NBA:
Smodis - role player in the NBA
Siskauskas - bench wing player at best
Pekovic - a shorter Nesterovic
Diamantidis - defensive specialist; wouldn't get any offense off
Langdon - undersized chucker; already failed in the NBA
Papaloukas - too slow and unathletic to defend NBA 2s and 3s, let alone point guards - also has a poor jumper
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:45 PM   #140
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

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80% of euroleague players not finding a spot in the nba has to do more with politics than ability. If Nicolas Batum can play in the nba than a lot of euroleague players can play in the nba.

When I say "find a spot", I mean a secure place, not a 1-month contract or be a 12th player. Many Euroleague players could be 12th guys for an NBA team, so what? This shows the NBA's supremacy. The fact that a lot of Europe's best players have failed to play any major role in the NBA shows this. The fact that NBA scrubs and cutouts come to Europe and become top names shows this. The fact that the opposite thing never happens shows this. I still can't find any evidence to show how the Euroleague is as strong as the NBA.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:54 PM   #141
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
How the best players in the EL would fare in the NBA:
Smodis - role player in the NBA
Siskauskas - bench wing player at best
Pekovic - a shorter Nesterovic
Diamantidis - defensive specialist; wouldn't get any offense off
Langdon - undersized chucker; already failed in the NBA
Papaloukas - too slow and unathletic to defend NBA 2s and 3s, let alone point guards - also has a poor jumper

Something like this. NBA rules are made for Americans, not Internationals. We don't even need to make assumptions: Scola isn't anywhere as big in the NBA as he was in Europe. Macijauskas and Jasikevicius were top guards and they never had any serious NBA impact (esp.Macas). You already mentioned Langdon. Lynn Greer was a star in Europe. Then he went to the NBA and became a last resort for the Bucks. Then he returned to Europe and returned to his star status once again. There really isn't a comparison.

Just for a change, I'd really like to hear an example of a European who failed to make any impact in Europe, then came to the NBA and dominated from the beginning.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:00 AM   #142
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
Something like this. NBA rules are made for Americans, not Internationals. We don't even need to make assumptions: Scola isn't anywhere as big in the NBA as he was in Europe. Macijauskas and Jasikevicius were top guards and they never had any serious NBA impact (esp.Macas). You already mentioned Langdon. Lynn Greer was a star in Europe. Then he went to the NBA and became a last resort for the Bucks. Then he returned to Europe and returned to his star status once again. There really isn't a comparison.

Just for a change, I'd really like to hear an example of a European who failed to make any impact in Europe, then came to the NBA and dominated from the beginning.

Tony Parker
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:30 AM   #143
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

1) Parker didn't "dominate from the beginning".
2) Parker was like 20 when he entered the NBA. Yet, he was considered a good and developing player in Europe up to that age. I'm talking about European scrubs who became NBA stars, like many NBA scrubs did the opposite. Not Europeans who were just young and untested like Parker or Dirk or Darko, but weren't considered scrubs.
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:29 PM   #144
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
1) Parker didn't "dominate from the beginning".
2) Parker was like 20 when he entered the NBA. Yet, he was considered a good and developing player in Europe up to that age. I'm talking about European scrubs who became NBA stars, like many NBA scrubs did the opposite. Not Europeans who were just young and untested like Parker or Dirk or Darko, but weren't considered scrubs.

Tony Parker played in France so he was a scrub and didn't he win a championship his rookie year.

This scenario doesn't happen today. There are players that weren't given a fair shake in the nba that end up being good on the second try in the euroleague but not from day one. Those guys improve gradually, at best it takes half a season or a full season and now the later is more likely. Most of the best players today in the euroleague aren't nba washouts.

People can't think the worst thing can happen but it can and the nba needs to get their act together.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:51 AM   #145
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

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Originally Posted by b.jerk
Tony Parker played in France so he was a scrub and didn't he win a championship his rookie year.

This scenario doesn't happen today. There are players that weren't given a fair shake in the nba that end up being good on the second try in the euroleague but not from day one. Those guys improve gradually, at best it takes half a season or a full season and now the later is more likely. Most of the best players today in the euroleague aren't nba washouts.

People can't think the worst thing can happen but it can and the nba needs to get their act together.
First of all the title of this useless thread is college v euro not nba. second you have to stop comparing,they are different games.Thirdly Lynn Greer a star?? where? he was not a star. Stojakovic didnt do much in europe yet in the kings he was great.Kleiza is a good nba player who was not much in Europe.Rudy Fernandez will and is already for me a top 100 in the NBA. Rudy Gay for example would miss just as much in europe and still in the NBA he is a franchise player.different styles.Smodiz you say would be a role player in the NBA,yes maybe he would.Thats because he has been developed as a player in europe for european basketball.If european players are so poor,why are the NBA getting them younger and younger. like bellineli,bargnani,Gasols,Sergio Rodriguez,Batum.Sabonis was great in europe and was great in the NBA.I don't think the NBA has seen a better passer than him for a centre.Don't just mean number of assists but the quality of them.That was with him crippled with injuries by the time he got there.I hate these comparisons,it's a matter of choice what you like.I will always prefer european basketball because I enjoy watching it more,I have been brought up with that basketball mentality etc. the NBA bores me big time,the format,the useless games,the ball hogs(Rudy Gay etc) the time outs, the half time entertainment all that showbiz ****.But for others its all about the spectacle and they love that and find the rudimentary,purist team basketball played in europe boring. it's a matter of choice.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:28 AM   #146
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Still think Rudy is not a top 100 player in the NBA? Yesterday in 29 mins 25 points with good percentages and in the 4th qtr when it matters. I think you could be mistaken about this psileas.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:19 PM   #147
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Rudy will be very good. We all saw what he did in the gold medal game. He's still not a top 25 talent in the league. Top 100, maybe... probably. That's not saying a lot though. In the next few years he will develop into a very good player. It's hard to be an impact player in the NBA as a rookie.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:09 PM   #148
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
Stojakovic didnt do much in europe yet in the kings he was great.Kleiza is a good nba player who was not much in Europe.

Stojakovic "didn't do much in Europe" because he didn't play for long in Europe. However, he was easily among the best players in Europe when he left for the NBA (20+ppg guy, MVP of the Greek league, iirc, without even playing for their best team), and he still wasn't a major performer for the Kings since season 1.

As for Kleiza, as far as I know, he went from college to the NBA, so he can't qualify-not to mention that in his rookie NBA season he was nothing more than a widely unknown bench warmer.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:21 PM   #149
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

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Still think Rudy is not a top 100 player in the NBA? Yesterday in 29 mins 25 points with good percentages and in the 4th qtr when it matters. I think you could be mistaken about this psileas.

I usually don't bother to rank players after only 7-8 games have been played. But that's not what I said. I said that, even if we accept him as top-100, Rudy in Europe was much higher ranked than top-100.

Look at the rankings at this thread, about the top-10 Europeans of 2008 not in the NBA. Rudy is in practically anyone's list, including your choice as #1:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66428
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:11 PM   #150
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Default Re: Who Wins? College vs Euro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
I usually don't bother to rank players after only 7-8 games have been played. But that's not what I said. I said that, even if we accept him as top-100, Rudy in Europe was much higher ranked than top-100.

Look at the rankings at this thread, about the top-10 Europeans of 2008 not in the NBA. Rudy is in practically anyone's list, including your choice as #1:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66428

Fernandez isn't going to be as good as Casspi. Why was Casspi sitting on the bench in the first half, he scored 10 straight points against Olympiacos in the second. Is israel runned by an incompantant junta and maccabi part of it.
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