Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-29-2006, 02:10 PM   #31
9spurs
Serious playground baller
 
9spurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 245
9spurs has an OK reputation so far
Default

It's about time, they had to dump that coach.
9spurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:11 PM   #32
kwajo
Missing Since 2009
 
kwajo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the water
Posts: 5,960
kwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation herekwajo has an incredible reputation here
Default

sorry, it's hard to keep track of all the user names that have those four letters in them, it seems like there are dozens and they easily get mixed up
kwajo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:16 PM   #33
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

1) They should have never fired Musselman

2) Montgomery deserved some kind of chance

3) Don Nelson is a terriffic coach. If Mike D. ever had the chance to be a good-NBA player its now. Forwards with diverse skills thrive under Nelson. That's what we heard Mike D. is - so he should be thrive - assuming he really has diverse skills.

4) Foyle hitting a 3 under Nelson will be a highlight of the NBA season.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:16 PM   #34
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Ricardo Tubbs has an OK reputation so far
Default

Wow you people overrate Don Nelson. Not since the Bucks has any one of his teams actually overachieved.

What Mullin should have done is quit and hire Nelson as the GM.
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:55 PM   #35
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

I remember when Don Nelson took over as head coach for the Knicks.

It was a mountain of contraversy. Nelson followed Riley. Riley's system was traditional, effective, and very simple - pg handles, sg shoots, sf is versatile, pf rebounds, center stays on the block and everybody defends their opposing number, directs the opponent to the middle where help is waiting.

Nelson came in and immeidately turned things around. Everyone handles, everyone shoots, everyone is on the blocks, cross-match on defense.

Ewing critics will say it failed because Nelson wanted to make the versatile Mason the "centerpiece" of the team but Ewing still wanted his shots. so following a bad streak caused by these growing pains, Ewing turned the whole team against Nelson and brought in the more traditional Van Gundy.

Nelson critics will say that it failed because Nelson had Ewing shooting 3's, while Starks was trying to manuever inside. It failed because Ewing was not under the basket on defense, so teams were just doing layup drills against the Knicks.

It really goes to intent. Did it fail because Ewing and crew refused to change? Or did it fail because Nelson did not coach his personnel, and they were just not capable of change?

Personally, I don't like any plan that takes my best shot blocker and inside scorer out from the paint - so I side with Ewing and co. Meanwhile, did it really fail? They went 35 and 22 over 57 games before he was fired. Thats on pace for a 50 win season. Knicks would give their right nut for that.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:59 PM   #36
wang4three
NJ Net Fan For Life.
 
wang4three's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,443
wang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation here
Default

baron's back already is broken.
wang4three is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:11 PM   #37
DCL
NBA rookie of the year
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,135
DCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this board
Default

i've been kicking sand in the warrirors' faces for years. but i think they will finally be good again. nelson's specialty is that he isn't a one-philosophy coach. he's not stubborn like most old school guys who enforce every guy to play the same way. nelson actually allows a lot of flexibility so he really knows how to utilize talent. instead of converting players into something they're not, he does the opposite and tries to maximize their talents in what they're good at. this won't win championships, but it's certainly good enough to be competitive and make the playoffs. with nelson on board, guys like baron davis will have a career again.
DCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:15 PM   #38
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCL
nelson's specialty is that he isn't a one-philosophy coach. he's not stubborn like most old school guys who enforce every guy to play the same way. nelson actually allows a lot of flexibility so he really knows how to utilize talent. instead of converting players into something they're not, he does the opposite and tries to maximize their talents in what they're good at.

I disagree. Nelson is as rigid a coach as there is in the league. He isn't a task-master and his approach is more laid back, but he coaches one system. He likes a motion offense, where everyone gets touches all over the floor. He expects versatility in all his players. He is inflexible on that.

He does not maximize player's talents, though he tires ot maximize the number of skills each player has.

He will be good for the Warriors, but not for the reasons you cite.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:19 PM   #39
DCL
NBA rookie of the year
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,135
DCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this board
Default

nelson plays the system that works best with the pieces that he has. motion offense just happens to be something that works with his players. if he has small guys, he'll play small ball and run tmc. if he has a manute, he'll position him into the game and might even let him shoot 3's. nelson will experiment and try things and is open to creativity. he's one of the least inflexible coaches in the league if you compare him to the hot heads like larry brown. he's far from rigid.

Last edited by DCL : 08-29-2006 at 03:27 PM.
DCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:25 PM   #40
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCL
nelson plays the system that works best with the pieces that he has. if he has small guys, he'll play small ball and rum tmc. if he has a manute, he'll position him into the game. he's one of the lease inflexible coaches in the league if you compare him to the hot heads like larry brown.

I disagree. I'm not sure which Don Nelson team you've watched, but its not accidental that all Nelson teams play the same way. Him and Brown are about the same. They have a way they like their temas to play and coach it. In fact, Brown is slightly more flexible - the 76ers, didn't play much like Pistons, who didn't really play like the Pacers.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:35 PM   #41
DCL
NBA rookie of the year
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,135
DCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this board
Default

Quote:
I'm not sure which Don Nelson team you've watched, but its not accidental that all Nelson teams play the same way.

if not motion offense, how else would you had coached the warriors or the mavs? ? that's the logical and ideal strategy with those pieces that those teams had. he's given his players a lot of freedom. and he wasn't stubborn. he didn't try to force someone to become a defensive specialist or stopper if he was a just a 3 point shooter. he just let them run and play.
DCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:38 PM   #42
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

Lets take a look at Nelson coaching history to see how he changes things up based on his talent and flexibility - as DCL keeps saying (from Wilkepedia)

Nelson took over the reins of General Manager and Coach of the Milwaukee Bucks in 1976 and began to show what would later become his signature style of wheeling and dealing players...It is also in Milwaukee where Nelson became known for his unorthodox, arguably, innovative basketball philosophy. He was known to have introduced the concept of the point forward - a tactic wherein small forwards are used to direct the offense. In Nelson's tenure with the Bucks, he used 6-5 small forward Paul Pressey for the role. This enabled Nelson to field shooting guards Sidney Moncrief and Craig Hodges or Ricky Pierce at the same time without worrying about who would run the offense.

Zaza note - ok, so he has a point forward so he can run the forward with 2 shooters to create mismatches

Nelson then became Coach and Vice President of the Golden State Warriors. In Golden State, he instilled a run and gun style of offense. Again using an unconventional lineup which featured three guards (Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway and Sarunas Marciulionis) and two forwards (Chris Mullin and the 6-8 Rod Higgins at center)

Zaza note - ok, so he has a point guard that hruns with 2 shooters to create mismatches. wow, Nelson keeps making these adjustments ot his talent everywhere he goes

In 1995, Nelson would begin his stint with the Knicks, which lasted from that July until March of 1996. Nelson had many personal problems with the players, though, and led them to a lackluster 34-25 start. He also favored a more up-tempo style of offense, sharply contrasting with the Knicks hard-nosed defensive style of play.

Zaza note - they don't get into his lineups, but I'll tell you he tried ot make Mason a point forward and run him with - guess what - 2 shooters. and good job adjusting to talent by taking a talented half-court team and turning them into a poor up-tempo team. Nelson keeps making these adjustments ot his talent everywhere he goes

Nelson was named Head Coach and General Manager of the Dallas Mavericks in 1997, and led them to four consecutive 50 win seasons. The trio of Steve Nash, Michael Finley, and Dirk Nowitzki became the foundation for the dramatic turnaround. In Dallas, Nelson created an offensive powerhouse in which every player could score at any time.

Zaza note - up-tempo offense - check - multiple shooters - check - everyone asked to do everything - check.

By my count, on 4 teams, Nelson has tried to run the same exact offense - that's right - 4 times. But he's not rigid.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:41 PM   #43
Joey Zaza
Local High School Star
 
Joey Zaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,068
Joey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat coolJoey Zaza is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCL
if not motion offense, how else would you had coached the warriors or the mavs? ? that's the logical and ideal strategy with those pieces that those teams had. he's given his players a lot of freedom. and he wasn't stubborn. he didn't try to force someone to become a defensive specialist or stopper if he was a just a 3 point shooter. he just let them run and play.

Well, he's also always the GM and Coach so he brings in the guys who will fit into his system.

He gives his players alot of freedom to play his way.
Joey Zaza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:52 PM   #44
DCL
NBA rookie of the year
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,135
DCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this boardDCL is popular on this board
Default

first of all, i'm not sure if it's even worthwhile to respond to someone who needs wikipedia to talk about basketball.

the bucks were ahead of my time, but the offense he ran with the warriors made sense. he cancelled the bigs, practically eliminated a bit inside game unless you consider tyrone hill to bring run tmc to the table. at new york, he just didn't get along with his players. in dallas, you make it sound like it's nelson's fault that he had a very talented team that mark cuban paid for. like i said, how else would you had coached that team? look at the pieces. motion offense was logical. an nba coach letting his players focus on scoring and not play much defense is far from rigid. he lets the players maximize their talents and play the way that they're good at. i think maybe you don't like don nelson because he didn't do too well with the knicks and you're a van gundy guy.
DCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 03:57 PM   #45
chains5000
From Out Of Nowhere
 
chains5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 8,661
chains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechains5000 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Well, he's also always the GM and Coach so he brings in the guys who will fit into his system.

He gives his players alot of freedom to play his way.
Will they fire Mullin to make Nelson the GM? Mullin hasn't been exactly perfect as GM...
chains5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:00 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy