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Old 08-29-2006, 06:30 PM   #61
Joey Zaza
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Originally Posted by FabCasablancas
The Bucks WERE a defensive team. Sidney Moncreif was a stellar defender. They were a top ranked defensive tema in the league. They won with D.

I actually did some research and the bucks were good defensively in their era. Not sure what that proves.

I don't hate Nellie. I think he's a good coach, read my posts.

I disagree that he's a felxible coach. He did not adjust to talent, he'd bring in talent that could adjust to him - and he did it very well. When he was challenged in NY, he failed. Part of playoff coaching is flexibility and adjustments - which Nellie is horrible at.

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Originally Posted by FabCasablancas
Nellie is a victim of his own success.. any other coach who doesn't get lucky and get great players to coach with, as long as Nellie, gets tossed out of the league never to return. But Nellie was able to be successful with what he had. It was like Nellie was building racecars to run in the Indianapolis 500 out of scrap..

Nellie was usually his own GM, so if his players were bad, its really his fault. I don't think he gets the "I have no players" excuse. The Knick team he took over had just been to its second consecutive conference finals. They were good. His GS team was quite good, then became quite bad. His Dallas team was terriffic.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:04 PM   #62
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Nellie was usually his own GM, so if his players were bad, its really his fault.

I didn't say they were bad.. I said they weren't great. If you haevn't noticed.. most of the championships are won by truly great players. Nellie neve rhad one until Dirk.. and Dirk can't even get any respect anyway. Neither could Nellie.. for the same kind of politics that dogs Dirk. The NBA id a popularity contest.. and if you get out you can't get in. Dirk and Nellie haven't ever been able to get in, because they aren't what the league pushes.

I don't think he gets the "I have no players" excuse.

It's the "I have no turly great players atr their peak"

The Knick team he took over had just been to its second consecutive conference finals.

Ewing was old and a choker..

They were good. His GS team was quite good, then became quite bad.

Never had a truly great player and Webber blew it up. Nellie wanted to use Webber like they did in Sac. But Webber wouldn't have it.

His Dallas team was terriffic.

Dallas was good but wasn't built properly. Cuban's priority was winning now. rather than building the team correctly. And because of that Dirk can't get a quality bigman to play with. The only way you can usually do that is through the draft.

If you want to knock Nellie as a Gm I don't have a problem with that. He was never able to get good enough bigmen or enough good bigmen.. You can't knock him for his coaching though.. he is a truly great coach.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:11 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Dude I just want something other than your brain. He let his players adjust to their abilities. Did he ever adjust to his player's abilities. The facthat he let his players freelance is every coaches job. Even JVG and Brown allow players to "do their thing"...tis gotta be built into any system.


are you sure van gundy let his players to their thing?? better ask steve francis that.

anyway, if you look back and compare nelson to other coaches, nelly is one of the more open-minded and creative coaches to ever coach the game in terms of willing to try completely different things. run tmc was a perfect example. at the time, his approach was so unorthodox and even ridiculed, but he made them work. he had no big man, no defense, just have 3 guys killing teams on offense. that idea was supposed to suck, but he still got them to win 50+ games. of course, that style wasn't going to win any championships, but the issue wasn't an adjustement problem, but a personnel problem. you can only do so much with what he had.

in dallas, he got those guys to 50+ wins for 4 consecutive seasons. he practically built that team from scratch. i think his overall achievement is more impressive than what he didn't do in the playoffs. dallas was a stinker doormat in the nba for years before don nelson. how many guys can walk in and change the whole face of the team and make them into the elite level the way that nelson did? only a few. you don't achieve things like that by being "stubborn" or "rigid."

but anyway, i really think your whole bias against nellie is based on his half-season in new york when he was still experimenting with the team and when they didn't have an identity, but it's kinda funny you're sorta discrediting all his work for just those 50 games or so in new york. new york is just historically tough and still is. not much change can really be done over there in just half-a-season. it took van gundy awhile to get things going anyway. and it wasn't exactly a sudden transformation.


Quote:
but did Mr. Flex ever adjust his coaching to suit his player's abilities. did he adjust his coaching for the playoff run?

when nellie had tmc, he went to small ball. when tmc broke up, he adapted and played bigger with guys like victor alexander, chris gatling, tyrone hill, then also later with webber for that short period. sprewell was running the joint, but the offense at that time had a reformat and wasn't anything like run tmc. they still ran, but their inside presence was significantly more noticeable, and they did play more defense. again, this change would had been very obvious to you if you had actually watched any of the games instead of just reading articles from wikipedia.


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Its untrue. He would take a bunch of shots. Some were jumpers, most were runners of the wrong foot, some were fadaways. He wasn't a real big dunk guy, but he'd get some baseline, some fadeaways. I think most shots were 5-10 feet out. If its the dunks you are upset about, if Ewing could get to the basket more, he would have dunked more - but he faced doubleteams and didn't have the power of Shaq.

his favorite outside shot was the baseline angle. debating whether it's 15ft or 12ft is trivial. the bottom line is that he should had banged it inside more. he was supposed to be the next kareem-type center, a dominating big man that was supposed to carry his team to win championships. but that title actually turned out to be hakeem.




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I'm not sure what Nelson knew. He knew he wanted to change the way NY played. I think he thought more highly of Ewing's range than was appropriate and proably overrated Mason a little.

was it nelson that thought highly of ewing's range or was it ewing who thought highly of ewing's range? can't really tell. whenever he touched the ball faraway, he seemed very trigger happy.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:20 PM   #64
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I always wondered what GS was thinking about when they got Montgomery in the first place. I guess he came cheap. He was ready to be fired the day he was hired.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:27 PM   #65
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oh, another thing about nelson's open-mindedness.

give him credit for being one of the first guys to look into european players.

he discovered sarunis marcilinoius (sp) and gave him a chance. he also jocked on dirk, who eventually opened the giant floodgate to the rest of the world. before, people only looked at candidates from ncaa tournaments.

nelson was one of the early guys to help open a door to a giant foreign floodgate. most other top nba executives would had never touched it. you don't draft foriegn unknowns by being "rigid" with conventional thinking.
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Old 08-29-2006, 08:43 PM   #66
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I think Dumars should have hired Nellie to coach the Pistons. I would have loved to have seen that. Nellie could have shown he is a great offensive AND defensive coach. He couldn't be worse than Flip.. no matter how you slice it.
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Old 08-29-2006, 08:57 PM   #67
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They'll be alot of fun to watch but they won't win any games or do anything great. Their pretenders and have been for the past 3 or 4 years. Their always supposed to be good and never are.

The Warriors & The Nuggets are always supposed to be a top seed but never are. At least the Nuggets make the playoffs (but get swept when Melo dissapears) whats the warriors excuse?
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:27 AM   #68
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Heard it on ESPN radio before you made the thread. RUN TMC!!! of course, without TMC. Maybe he can get B Diddy, J. Rich, Dunleavy, and all of them clicking. Scary.

He will do what all his teams do score a lot of points with no D what so ever and lose early in the playoffs
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:33 AM   #69
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oh, another thing about nelson's open-mindedness.

give him credit for being one of the first guys to look into european players.

he discovered sarunis marcilinoius (sp) and gave him a chance. he also jocked on dirk, who eventually opened the giant floodgate to the rest of the world. before, people only looked at candidates from ncaa tournaments.

nelson was one of the early guys to help open a door to a giant foreign floodgate. most other top nba executives would had never touched it. you don't draft foriegn unknowns by being "rigid" with conventional thinking.

Lets be honest its a great thing that new talent has come into the league but what team has won a title with a euro as its prime player Zero Nellie is what is wrong with the NBa 7 foot players shooting 3's soft centers when will someone get reall smart and go develop talent in Africa and fine the next Hakeem or Mutombo instead of lokking for the next 7 foot Dirk that wants to shoot jumpers all the time.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:02 AM   #70
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This will be fun...
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Niquesports
Lets be honest its a great thing that new talent has come into the league but what team has won a title with a euro as its prime player Zero Nellie is what is wrong with the NBa 7 foot players shooting 3's soft centers when will someone get reall smart and go develop talent in Africa and fine the next Hakeem or Mutombo instead of lokking for the next 7 foot Dirk that wants to shoot jumpers all the time.


if you're talking about titles, why did you bring mutombo up??? ha ha

and your screen name is nique. how many conference finals did nique make?

a lot of foreign players are garbage (tckitivilla or whatever his name is). but there are still a lot of non-us players who got game. they may not be championship level, but that doesn't mean they don't belong in the nba. they can play and they improve teams. ie ginobili, kirilenko, nocioni, etc. most of these guys would probably still playing in the euro leagues if guys like don nelson hadn't helped expose the talent from overseas.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Niquesports
Lets be honest its a great thing that new talent has come into the league but what team has won a title with a euro as its prime player?

What team has ever won a title without a top 5 pick as its prime player:

Wade
Duncan
Billups
Duncan
Shaq
Shaq
Shaq
Duncan
Mj
MJ
MJ
Hakeem
Hakeem
Mj
MJ
MJ
------------
We then lets not talk about finding talent late in the draft. The only thing that matters is the top 5 pick.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:01 PM   #73
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Default Warriors Fire Montgomery, ... BDavis, Monty, Al Attles

Let's get real, folks. Baron Davis DIDN'T RUN Montgomery's offense last year. Jump shot, jump shot, turn over, dribble drive, TO... it was SICK! Oh, then missed more free throws by millionaires? So Cohan had to spend millions to make Baron Davis happy? B/c Davis didn't "respect" Monty?!? Can you spell headcase?

Nellie: I like Nellie, but he never got us past the 2nd round of the (expanded) playoffs, and never got us a Big Man. (Boston had what, 5 at one time?) Anyway, Mully has his coach back, Rod Higgins is there, etc., so he has all of his "buddies" around him - showing, really, that his basketball "network" isn't too deep. If they don't win this next year or two, Mully should be gone, and Nellie, too.

Al Attles: still gets no respect for the AMAZING things he did as coach in the 70s w/Rick Barry & Co. **NBA Title** Attles was insightful enough to bring in (in preseason) BUD PRESLEY in to TEACH DEFENSE - a JuCo coach who was a DEFENSIVE GENIUS & MADMAN! Oh, Attles didn't play 9 men... he played 11!! Don't play hard? Put your butt on the bench!!

Anyway, time for Mully & Nellie to stop living off of the Run TMC half-good team memories. If I were Cohan, I'd make them watch ALL FOUR OF ATTLES VICTORIES OVER THE WASHINGTON BULLETS, plus a few other choice games were the GSW schooled Dr. J, the Lakers, et al. They've got the pieces to be good, IF Nellie can coach Davis; if Davis stays healthy; if the young Big Men can play 10 solid minutes (each), on ocassion; and IF Dunleavey grows some balls. But please... the Bay Area kises Mully's & Nelli's butt too much. Will they now deliver??
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:02 PM   #74
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Default Re: Warriors fire Mike Montgomery, reportedly hiring Don Nelson

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Old 05-26-2014, 09:08 PM   #75
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Default Re: Warriors fire Mike Montgomery, reportedly hiring Don Nelson

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMacsOneGoodEye
The Warriors & The Nuggets are always supposed to be a top seed but never are. At least the Nuggets make the playoffs (but get swept when Melo dissapears) whats the warriors excuse?


8 years later and this its still true, AND even expands to include Carmelos current team, the knicks.


Crazy.
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