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Old 07-21-2008, 12:02 PM   #1
idizzle
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Exclamation Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Instead of making a lot of threads for trades, rumors, news, and thoughts we can just put them in one big thread.

As most of you know that keep up with the Nuggets, they are trying to do some slight tweaks to improve and get further in the playoffs and get below the salary cap threshold. I've been reading that the Nuggets are might re-sign Franisco Elson or David Harrison to replace Marcus Camby. I also been reading if the right deal came along that the Nuggets would trade Iverson, Martin, or Nene.

Me personally I think the Nuggets should try to re-sign J.R. Smith or do a sign and trade and get a bigger veteran guard to play next to Iverson cause they undersized backcourt thing is getting old. I think the Nuggets need to get a shooter or 2 to come off the bench and a defensive stopper.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by idizzle
I've been reading that the Nuggets are might re-sign Franisco Elson or David Harrison to replace Marcus Camby. I also been reading if the right deal came along that the Nuggets would trade Iverson, Martin, or Nene.

I would actually like to obtain Chris "BIRDMAN" Anderson and David Harrison because the Birdman is what the Nuggets need after they lost out on one of our best energy guys in Najera and I personally believe that Anderson brings that intensity.

David Harrison as I said in my other post is just a big guy inside that can post up on both ends of the court and I feel that is what we have been missing. Because one our struggles on the court last year was our inability to rebound the basketball of either not giving ourselves a second oppurtunity or giving the other team a second chance to score.
An example of that was against the Lakers in the playoffs, how could we not get rebounds when Pau Gasol is one of the weaker big guys in the league?

IF there is one thing we all agree on is bringing back Jr Smith. A young guy with so much potential. Can we see the next Kobe in the near future here in Denver in the future?

I myself would like to see a trade of either A.I. or K-Mart to another team for key players that can help this team and not trade these guys for draft picks.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Oh how I would love to get kmarts ass out of here, but NO TEAM wants that contract, even the guys under the cap won't take him.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Birdman returns to Nuggets

Chris "The Birdman" Andersen will return to the Denver Nuggets next season. He agreed to sign a one-year contract with the team, multiple sources said Wednesday
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

This will be the official Nuggets off-season transaction, rumor and news thread.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Nuggets add swingman Jones


One day after adding a reserve post, the Nuggets added a reserve swingman — Dahntay Jones agreed to a one-year deal with Denver, his agent confirmed.

Jones, a Duke product, played well on Denver's summer league team, well enough to earn himself a guaranteed contract for the league minimum, around $1 million.

I do believe this is the end for Bobby Jones and/or Taureen Green. They both had a poor summer league
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

so now we are here?

ac/atkins/green?
ai/jr/d jones/b jones?/yakouba?/sonny
carmelo/klieza
kmart/birdman/e brown?
nene/hunter/j mccoy?

lucky for us though its such a simple fix

first step trade the exemption and 2 or even 3 1sts and taurean green- what would we ever do w a 1st rd pick anyway- & i read an article explaining how that trade exemption would be more beneifiial to the bulls than almost anyone- i reallybelieve the take 3 or maybe 2 1sts

then you have to let hinrich do his job and balance out the roster by trading iverson & 3 2nds or 1 1st for krstic, stromile swift, & kvh's contract

hinrich/atkins/ac
JR/b jones/d jones/sonny
melo/klieza
kmart/swift/birdman
nene/krstic/hunter

that is a real basketball team there-after cutting kvh we drop 5-7 mill & we have atkins and swift as expiring deals

how are these guys not jumping all over signing jr to 6-7 mill per year? that would imo also keep klieza contract in check next year- 3 years from now we could have the best cap structure of any team in the nba if we had this

melo- 15
nene- 10
JR - 6
klieza-6

that is a little better than chunks of 22,15,15,10

like i said simple fix- costs 3-4 picks to put a real team out there

ac hinrich
ai jr
jr ac/chucky
klieza klieza
melo melo
kmart kmart
bird/hunt nene
nene krstic
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
so now we are here?

ac/atkins/green?
ai/jr/d jones/b jones?/yakouba?/sonny
carmelo/klieza
kmart/birdman/e brown?
nene/hunter/j mccoy?

lucky for us though its such a simple fix

first step trade the exemption and 2 or even 3 1sts and taurean green- what would we ever do w a 1st rd pick anyway- & i read an article explaining how that trade exemption would be more beneifiial to the bulls than almost anyone- i reallybelieve the take 3 or maybe 2 1sts

then you have to let hinrich do his job and balance out the roster by trading iverson & 3 2nds or 1 1st for krstic, stromile swift, & kvh's contract

hinrich/atkins/ac
JR/b jones/d jones/sonny
melo/klieza
kmart/swift/birdman
nene/krstic/hunter

that is a real basketball team there-after cutting kvh we drop 5-7 mill & we have atkins and swift as expiring deals

how are these guys not jumping all over signing jr to 6-7 mill per year? that would imo also keep klieza contract in check next year- 3 years from now we could have the best cap structure of any team in the nba if we had this

melo- 15
nene- 10
JR - 6
klieza-6

that is a little better than chunks of 22,15,15,10

like i said simple fix- costs 3-4 picks to put a real team out there

ac hinrich
ai jr
jr ac/chucky
klieza klieza
melo melo
kmart kmart
bird/hunt nene
nene krstic
Don't get too comfortable putting J.R. in the line up just yet, he is still a restricted free agent at the moment and could still be gone. Also, what's with the Iverson hate/Hinrich obsession? I'm sorry, but your posts always seem to consist of trades that would get rid of Iverson and bring in THE ALMIGHT KIRK HINRICH. When I read your posts, its always something like Iverson for scrubs, Iverson for Hinrich, Iverson for a cookie, etc....

Who played for us hard each and every game last season?. Umm...Melo? yeah right! Camby? dream on! J.R.? Don't make me laugh!. Even though Iverson may not be the perfect fit for Denver, what he brings to the team is the toughness, both mentally and physically, which is what you're looking for in a "real" leader. When you see the man play, you can tell he gives it 110% each and every night. Can you say the same for the rest of the group?(except Najera). Can you really see guys like J.R. and Melo playing through games with a broken finger like he did? umm..no, not many can or will, and yet you have superstars like Lebron missing 5 straight games last season because he simply "sprained" his finger, unbelievable!. If they all brought it like he did each and every night, then there's no way that they would've been a disappointing 8th seed.

Last edited by KRAYZIE : 07-25-2008 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

I highly doubt we'll trade AI unless we get some spectacular players in return. The way I see it, ai will play out his contract this season and unless we see a big overall team improvement or he has a career breakout, he will walk, leaving us the 09 summer to find a legit point guard. As much as I would like to see Hinrich in a nuggets jersey, I wouldn't want to sacrifice AI for it.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAYZIE
Don't get too comfortable putting J.R. in the line up just yet, he is still a restricted free agent at the moment and could still be gone. Also, what's with the Iverson hate/Hinrich obsession? I'm sorry, but your posts always seem to consist of trades that would get rid of Iverson and bring in THE ALMIGHT KIRK HINRICH. When I read your posts, its always something like Iverson for scrubs, Iverson for Hinrich, Iverson for a cookie, etc....

Who played for us hard each and every game last season?. Umm...Melo? yeah right! Camby? dream on! J.R.? Don't make me laugh!. Even though Iverson may not be the perfect fit for Denver, what he brings to the team is the toughness, both mentally and physically, which is what you're looking for in a "real" leader. When you see the man play, you can tell he gives it 110% each and every night. Can you say the same for the rest of the group?(except Najera). Can you really see guys like J.R. and Melo playing through games with a broken finger like he did? umm..no, not many can or will, and yet you have superstars like Lebron missing 5 straight games last season because he simply "sprained" his finger, unbelievable!. If they all brought it like he did each and every night, then there's no way that they would've been a disappointing 8th seed.

you are right, and i know i am being repetitive to the point that it is probobly annoying to read for some of you over & over- i want to not do that so that we can have discussions here about the team overall- i will try

i just have such a strong disagreement with you on your opinion on iversons impact on the team- i cant see him as someone who works so hard or being so mentaly tough- he is the farthest thing in my mind from being a leader

the way i see it-
i cant stand that iverson has just convinced himself and the rest that he is so unable to defend that he should always be given the weakest assignment and the whole team should adjust around him- it goes so far as to ac has to start and play 30 minutes a game because iverson wont defend the opposing gaurd

i really believe he is the main defect and the beginning of most all of the defensive problems- kenyon martin would be the best kind of freind in the world growing up on a playground because the first sign of any danger he jumps in front of you to fight you battle- well he also does this every single possesion when one of the gaurds is beat or overmatched- he almost cant help it-

the nuggets always look like fools switching so early and poorly- its like they dont even cover their own guys for 5 seconds before the defensive chinese fire drill begins- sure carmelo or camby or kmart usually are the ones looking like fools getting dunked on or missing that last rotation, but i really believe the major problems begin with the gaurds not defending- mainly iverson

i see iverson as the most immature veteren possible- NEVER imo does iverson see any of the big picture or any kind of team concept- guess what? we dont need a strictly one on one offensive gunner- we need thinking, and ball movement and team play- imo iverson NEVER has any of that in mind- he honestly believes that his only purpose is to score at all costs

i just dont get the ai "heart, hustle....... thing at all- to me i feel that he could atleast try real hard on something that has to do with defending or thinking about one of his teammates game- but he doesnt, - i will give you this- iverson tries as hard as anyone ever has from the second he has the ball until he no longer has it- the problem is that try is 100% on ai trying to score- NEVER an entry pass or even a ball swing- its try to score once, twice, three times and then bail out pass if a shot isnt put up

i feel like everybody is just ignoring the elephant in the room- IVERSON IS NOT AT ALL WHAT THIS TEAM NEEDS, AND TO ACCOMIDATE HIM MEANS ADJUSTING EVERY OTHER PLAYERS GAME TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT THEM JUST SO IVERSON CAN BE HIMSELF- why is that worth it?

i feel that the nuggets are the biggest strongest fastest most physically imposing team in the league when jr &/or klieza are in the game with carmelo as the 2/3- i feel you give that away by playing iverson and and allowing his "i wont defend or use energy to bring the ball up and start something for someone else" attitude- w iverson that means usually only one of the 3 of melo, klieza, & jr can play with him at a time, when i think there should always be 2 of them with times of all 3

i just see a huge possibility of addition by subtraction by moving iverson- knowing your role and playing it is imo the most important thing in basketball- i cant see them ever really figuring it out with iverson- he makes his role way way to important

we NEED someone who will get the ball to melo early and in the right spots to help the chances of him doing something positive- we NEED someone getting kmart & klieza a couple of easy dunks or shots to get them going- we NEED someone getting jr open 3's and keeping him shooting them on or around the line so that he doesnt drift out to shooting half court shots

so no its not iversons fault that he doesnt do the things we NEED, but my whole point is that what ai does- we dont NEED

and the hinrich thing, ive never liked or followed his teams or him in particular, but for many reasons i just cant explain enough that i think he is the exact player the nugs NEED
-for one when i saw hinrich and melo together on a team usa they were PERFECT fits, to me it looked like two players that had played their whole lives together
-i wish it werent true, but the nuggets just have the worst commuication, teamwork, and almost most importantly the worst "image" in the league- nugs get absolutly raw treatment from the refs- i think its from how bad the team image is- the refs and everyone else can also see how not a team and how not all together the nugs are- its obvious the team doesnt believe & trust each other

MOST ALL OF THE TEAM ASPECT PROBLEMS ARE IMO HEAVILY DUE TO G KARL- but unexplainably karl will continue his act- so what do you do to get a team karl can work with? bluntly- get a white american that karl will MAYBE coach-

we badly need a point gaurd, a leader, a bridge between karl & the players (mainly obviously carmelo and JR, the two karl seems to have such a distaste for), and a new captain- the only 1 player in the nba that imo fits those standards is hinrich- he gives all that in addition to a major upgrade at defending the opposing gaurd, making wide open jumpshots, and i think team play- and as stupid as it sounds i think hinrich would just give the nugs a better vibe towards the refs and with our own coach and players

so like i said i will try to not keep focusing on all this stuff- im sure you all see that i believe the only option for this franchise to move foreward AGAIN is by moving iverson- i also think that JR is so vitally important to the future of this organization that i am just baffled why he isnt being treated as important at all- our management is unwilling to pay jr jamer nelson or michal petrius money- they dont have to pay monta ellis or ben gordon or luol deng money, less than 2/3 of those guys- a year from now we will not get the chance to be the team that does pay jr 10 mil + per year- all because of what? proving something? or am i that far off in thinking this is a gift from god to sign jr for 5 years at 30-35 mill? this is how you build a force- getting some good contract- not by huge monster contract for every player

i still believe that the next dynasty is our denver nuggets, but we are so close to screwing it up right now that i am scared out of my mind- sorry, but i just still cant believe that nobody else sees that the team needs to be dramatically changed-

i automatially assume that the people who love the way that iverson plays either dont watch anything past sportcenter or just flat out dont understand the game of basketball- so it blows my mind when some of you see it so differently- maybe i am just a hater, but i really believe that i hate for the right reasons - I DONT WANT TO DISLIKE ANY NUGGET- but i hate watching allen iverson and i hate the fact that he is on the denver nuggets- i have never felt this way about any player on this or any other team i support- i just wish it could end
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i just have such a strong disagreement with you on your opinion on iversons impact on the team- i cant see him as someone who works so hard or being so mentaly tough- he is the farthest thing in my mind from being a leader
Well, that's your opinion, some say Melo is the leader, others say it's AI, but at the end of the day, these 2 players have the biggest impact on the team, therefore are the leaders.
Here's a question, who do you think is the real leader of this underachieving team? and please don't say only Carmelo because he, just like Iverson is not the greatest defender in the league either. Infact in my opinion, Melo is our WORST defender, so wheres the knock on him? why just pick on Iverson defensively and yet give Melo who shares the responsibility of being a co-leader a free pass?. That's what I don't get from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i really believe he is the main defect and the beginning of most all of the defensive problems- kenyon martin would be the best kind of freind in the world growing up on a playground because the first sign of any danger he jumps in front of you to fight you battle- well he also does this every single possesion when one of the gaurds is beat or overmatched- he almost cant help it-
Really? so instead of blaming a coach who does not preach defense, you're going to immediately single AI out and point the finger at him?. Look around the cast, none of the players are great man-to-man defenders, guys like K-Mart, Najera, and AC are all good defenders, but they're not great. Then you have guys like AI, Melo, Camby, Kleiza, + J.R. who are bad to average man-to-man defenders, and yet you're once again going to single AI out and claim that he is the main reason why we are soo damn bad defensively?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
the nuggets always look like fools switching so early and poorly- its like they dont even cover their own guys for 5 seconds before the defensive chinese fire drill begins- sure carmelo or camby or kmart usually are the ones looking like fools getting dunked on or missing that last rotation, but i really believe the major problems begin with the gaurds not defending- mainly iverson
Again, Iversons fault that guys like Melo, Camby, + K-Mart forget to rotate on defense, right?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i see iverson as the most immature veteren possible- NEVER imo does iverson see any of the big picture or any kind of team concept- guess what? we dont need a strictly one on one offensive gunner- we need thinking, and ball movement and team play- imo iverson NEVER has any of that in mind- he honestly believes that his only purpose is to score at all costs
What about guys like J.R. and Melo? because everyone knows that these two don't have scoring in their minds and it's all "TEAM PLAY" for those 2 right?. I don't understand why you think he is all about scoring, he gave the team 7 assists per game did he not?. How many assists did guys like AC, J.R, K-Mart, Kleiza, + Melo give us last season in comparison to him?. He led this team in APG and yet you're once again singling him out of the group and claiming that he was the only guy that did not have team concept on his mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i just dont get the ai "heart, hustle....... thing at all- to me i feel that he could atleast try real hard on something that has to do with defending or thinking about one of his teammates game- but he doesnt, - i will give you this- iverson tries as hard as anyone ever has from the second he has the ball until he no longer has it-

Umm..you answered your own question right there. You forget that he led the entire league in minutes per game and minutes played overall, even with a broken finger in the last 2-3 months of the season, if that doesn't prove that he has heart then I really don't know what does. As for no hustle? sorry, but the word is reserved for Carmelo on the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
the problem is that try is 100% on ai trying to score- NEVER an entry pass or even a ball swing- its try to score once, twice, three times and then bail out pass if a shot isnt put up

One word, SHOOTING GUARD!. His job is to shoot the damn ball, not to be out there creating shots for everyone, that's AC's job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i feel that the nuggets are the biggest strongest fastest most physically imposing team in the league when jr &/or klieza are in the game with carmelo as the 2/3- i feel you give that away by playing iverson and and allowing his "i wont defend or use energy to bring the ball up and start something for someone else" attitude- w iverson that means usually only one of the 3 of melo, klieza, & jr can play with him at a time, when i think there should always be 2 of them with times of all 3

Melo is the prime example of a guy choosing not to defend, I know Melo can be a great defender if he wanted to, but the difference between him and AI is that at least AI tries on the other end of the floor, even if he does a sh*tty job of it. And as for bringing up the ball and creating shots for others, umm what's Melo's excuse?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i just see a huge possibility of addition by subtraction by moving iverson- knowing your role and playing it is imo the most important thing in basketball- i cant see them ever really figuring it out with iverson- he makes his role way way to important
Well, guess what? he has 1 year left on his contract, yeah I know, you're looking forward to that one. Until then, stop whining and let him finish off his contract then you can look forward to placing the blame on Melo in the future for being a sf instead of a pg who takes too many shots like AI and is unable to create shots for anyone, but himself and for being a horrible defender as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
we NEED someone who will get the ball to melo early and in the right spots to help the chances of him doing something positive- we NEED someone getting kmart & klieza a couple of easy dunks or shots to get them going- we NEED someone getting jr open 3's and keeping him shooting them on or around the line so that he doesnt drift out to shooting half court shots
Again, Anthony Carter is supposed to be our point guard, not Iverson and it's the job of a point guard to get the ball to the right person and help create shots for others. That's like getting angry at Raja Bell because even though he is a shooting guard, he isn't out there creating shots for others at all times like pg Steve Nash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
so no its not iversons fault that he doesnt do the things we NEED, but my whole point is that what ai does- we dont NEED
Well then, I guess the same thing applies to Melo as well, do we really need his scoring when we have Iverson? do we really need his rebounding when we have or had Camby? Do we really need that idiot of a coach? Do we really need Anthony Carter starting? No we don't really need any of that right?, but who's complaining? oh yeah, you are!. If you want to complain then go complain to the owner or the front office because they brought these players/coach in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
-for one when i saw hinrich and melo together on a team usa they were PERFECT fits, to me it looked like two players that had played their whole lives together
-i wish it werent true, but the nuggets just have the worst commuication, teamwork, and almost most importantly the worst "image" in the league- nugs get absolutly raw treatment from the refs- i think its from how bad the team image is- the refs and everyone else can also see how not a team and how not all together the nugs are- its obvious the team doesnt believe & trust each other
Yup and Kirk Hinrich is suppose to fix all of our problems, such as lack of communication, faith, bad image, horrible defense, poor ref treatment, etc....right?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
MOST ALL OF THE TEAM ASPECT PROBLEMS ARE IMO HEAVILY DUE TO G KARL- but unexplainably karl will continue his act- so what do you do to get a team karl can work with? bluntly- get a white american that karl will MAYBE coach-
You can't do nothing really, he is just not the right fit with Denver. I'm sure he is a good coach and that if he were to coach another team, then he will make them a playoff team, but that's about it. He lacks passion and desire to coach teams now, I know that he took Seattle to the finals in 96, but that was a different George. He gave the payers too much freedom in Denver and you can see that on the court when the team plays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
we badly need a point gaurd, a leader, a bridge between karl & the players (mainly obviously carmelo and JR, the two karl seems to have such a distaste for), and a new captain- the only 1 player in the nba that imo fits those standards is hinrich- he gives all that in addition to a major upgrade at defending the opposing gaurd, making wide open jumpshots, and i think team play- and as stupid as it sounds i think hinrich would just give the nugs a better vibe towards the refs and with our own coach and players
Hey, I'm all for that and if you feel like Hinrich is the solution to all of that then good for you. I, however don't, I see George Karl as the biggest problem with the Nuggets as of now and can't wait until he gets fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
so like i said i will try to not keep focusing on all this stuff- im sure you all see that i believe the only option for this franchise to move foreward AGAIN is by moving iverson- i also think that JR is so vitally important to the future of this organization that i am just baffled why he isnt being treated as important at all- our management is unwilling to pay jr jamer nelson or michal petrius money- they dont have to pay monta ellis or ben gordon or luol deng money, less than 2/3 of those guys- a year from now we will not get the chance to be the team that does pay jr 10 mil + per year- all because of what? proving something? or am i that far off in thinking this is a gift from god to sign jr for 5 years at 30-35 mill? this is how you build a force- getting some good contract- not by huge monster contract for every player
Wow, finally something we agree on. I too, don't wan't Denver to overspend on a player by giving them a huge contract which might come back to bite them back in the future. So to me, $5-6 mil for J.R. sounds reasonable and I really hope that they give him a multi-year contract similar to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i automatially assume that the people who love the way that iverson plays either dont watch anything past sportcenter or just flat out dont understand the game of basketball- so it blows my mind when some of you see it so differently- maybe i am just a hater, but i really believe that i hate for the right reasons - I DONT WANT TO DISLIKE ANY NUGGET- but i hate watching allen iverson and i hate the fact that he is on the denver nuggets- i have never felt this way about any player on this or any other team i support- i just wish it could end
Yup, that's hate alright. Nobody is perfect, but to single out and hate on one particular person on this team is what I find annoying. A lot of the things that you criticize on him for, such as being a bad defender or taking alot of shots or the inability to set guys up and create shots for them is wrong, especially when you have others just like him on the team that don't do the same and yet I don't see you sh*tting on them for it.

Last edited by KRAYZIE : 07-26-2008 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAYZIE
Here's a question, who do you think is the real leader of this underachieving team?

Infact in my opinion, Melo is our WORST defender

I don't understand why you think he is all about scoring, he gave the team 7 assists per game did he not?. How many assists did guys like AC, J.R, K-Mart, Kleiza, + Melo give us last season in comparison to him?. He led this team in APG and yet you're once again singling him out of the group and claiming that he was the only guy that did not have team concept on his mind.


at least AI tries on the other end of the floor, even if he does a sh*tty job of it. And as for bringing up the ball and creating shots for others, umm what's Melo's excuse?.

thank you for responding- i appreciate that you explained yourself instead of just bashing- it is clear that we have completly different opinions on what we see- maybe you are right that there is no sense in complaining here, but at the same time this is an internet chat board used to fill break time at work so what are we supposed to do? just continue to praise all that we have going? this isnt a school newspaper- i wish i wasnt so hooked on this and i am trying to find a different way to spend some time

i guess neither of us are going to change the way we feel about the sport of basketball- i honestly believe that the most important aspect of basketball is the meshing of the players and their roles- not just what each player wants to do, but what needs to be done

?"who is the real leader of this underachieving team"? THERE ISNT ONE- a coach should be able to carry part or alot of the leadership role but ours doesnt- he is so childish that he wont deal w people that he doesnt like- we really really need a leader- naturally iverson, melo, or kmart are not leader types, so i think we need one badly

melo is the worst defender on the team? i think you are just flat out wrong- i know you were in defend iverson and question melo mode, but to not admit to yourself that iverson is the worst defender on the nuggets seems crazy(with a c) to me-

why is iverson always "covering" the other teams last offensive threat if he isnt the nugs last defensive player?

to say iverson tries really hard but just does a sh**ty job on defense baffles me- to me iverson reminds me of how lazy people play open gym defense- drifting around trying to steal the ball from whoever but not actually putting in the effort of squaring up to someone and staying in front of them- i can see how maybe he physically cant, but anyone can try and ive seen enough of his game that you wont be able to convince me that iverson tries really hard on defense- he doesnt.

could allen iverson really not cover a guy like derek fisher? sure it takes energy and effort, but i believe he could, just wont

carmelo is THE ONLY top scoring player in the nba that is not given easier defensive assignments- why? because iverson already has the weak draw

the assists argument to me also makes no sense- i will admit to you that i dont follow stats and am always uninformed when someone uses stats to make their argument- admit this though

if iverson averages 7 assists a game at least 5 of those likely come from his bail out passes to mid to longer range jumpshots from camby kmart or carmelo- how many of those assists come from iverson truelly setting up a teammate for any easy hoop? 1 or maybe 2 a game would imo be stretching it- assists IMO are the by product of ball movement, they are not the only reason behind a pass-to me iverson is never invoved w ball movement- in alot of ways iverson make plenty of attempts for assists, but there is no in between an attemped shot or an attempted assist- very rarely does ai pass it to someone early and in a way that puts that player in a good position- he has to look for his first & then think about passing

making everything a so does carmelo argument is also completely clueless to say- a majority of the offensive possesions are dominated in the first 10-15 seconds of the shot clock by the gaurds- mainly iverson- most of the times carmelo gets the ball is in the last 10 or 5 seconds on the clock & by that time a majority of our offensive plan is to have everybody stand and watch

i understand that you put more blame on anthony carter for alot of the team defieciancies that we agree on- ball movement, team play, & defending the opposing gaurds

but take the names off the jerseys and any basketball team and coaching staff at ANY LEVEL of basketball, and? the player with iversons skill set would have to be the point gaurd- to blame a guy who should be the 14th player is wrong- that guy shouldnt even see the court, while the guy with iversons ability would have to do certain things- handle the ball & defend the other teams guard- but because hes allen iverson the whole team should be adjusted to him? to me that is so wrong i cant explain it

after this last crack at it, i am going to attempt to stay away from explaining my thoughts on iverson- you think he brings a positive effect and i totally disagree, arguing is stupid for me to keep doing

overall game of basketball thoughts that i dont know will ever change?

-defending the other teams gaurds is the beginning and the most important start to playing good team defense

-it is super important for gaurds to play the middle of the court and to get the ball to the forewards in spots they can deal with it from- that is why you are a gaurd and they are forewards

-team play and selflessnes are the most important aspects of basketball- each player has to do things that the team needs, not just the parts you want to do-selfishness has no part in basketball

- my reason for the hatred of iversons game? i believe he COULD do the things the team needs to be a real basketball team but he just WONT- maybe im wrong and that he wouldnt be effective as anything other than a "shooting gaurd"- but i just think he is so talented that his skills could transfer to the team game
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:34 PM   #13
OneMoreSucka
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Not to interrupt this debate we've got here, I'm actually enjoying it...

But it looks like OKC is going after JR too, now.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:10 PM   #14
KRAYZIE
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
thank you for responding- i appreciate that you explained yourself instead of just bashing- it is clear that we have completly different opinions on what we see- maybe you are right that there is no sense in complaining here, but at the same time this is an internet chat board used to fill break time at work so what are we supposed to do? just continue to praise all that we have going? this isnt a school newspaper- i wish i wasnt so hooked on this and i am trying to find a different way to spend some time
Go read a book?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
melo is the worst defender on the team? i think you are just flat out wrong- i know you were in defend iverson and question melo mode, but to not admit to yourself that iverson is the worst defender on the nuggets seems crazy(with a c) to me-

Do you honestly think that Melo is not our weakest defender on this team? are sure you that ain't the one in denial?. Let me guess, you're one of those fans who see Melo collect 7-10 rebounds a game and then convince yourself into thinking, "look how active he is on the boards, wow he must be alot better defender than people give him credit for". Please, he is by far our worst defender and this explains alot why.

Quote:
It is of my opinion that he is still, if not the worst defender on the team, one of the two worst defenders currently on the Nuggets’ roster. After last year, I may have been inclined to say his defense was on the up and up, but not now. His defensive rotations are still slow (if at all), his post defense was exploited by other competent offensive-minded small forwards all season long (which is evident by his average fouls also being a career-high 3.3 per game, and the fact that he fouled out in games against the Magic when he was paired up against Hedo Turkoglu and Utah when he drew the defensive assignment of the post-minded AK47), and at 6’8” he leaves a lot to be desired as a shot blocker.

And you know what else really irritates me about Melo on defense?. When I watch him, most of the time, he is following the ball instead of the man he is suppose to be guarding, it's like he would rather gamble on trying to collect a rebound on a missed shot than cover his assignment. What happens when you chase the ball and lose the man you're supposed to be guarding? the opponent kicks the ball out and his assignment is left wide open for an uncontested shot that he is not even going to bother chasing down. This is one of the reasons why Denver's perimeter defense is so bad.

I'll admit that these 2 so called "co-leaders" are not doing there job on defense and that this team is not going to go anywhere unless defense in general improves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
why is iverson always "covering" the other teams last offensive threat if he isnt the nugs last defensive player?
Just because you saw him guard a guy like Fisher in the playoffs, does not all of a sudden mean that he's always had the easiest assignments throughout the season. Why don't you provide me a list of all the players that he has covered and then compare it to all the players that Carmelo has covered, only then can this be solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
to say iverson tries really hard but just does a sh**ty job on defense baffles me- to me iverson reminds me of how lazy people play open gym defense- drifting around trying to steal the ball from whoever but not actually putting in the effort of squaring up to someone and staying in front of them- i can see how maybe he physically cant, but anyone can try and ive seen enough of his game that you wont be able to convince me that iverson tries really hard on defense- he doesnt.
Hmm, a team ranked 29 out of 30 in defense, yup and his the only guy not "trying" on defense right?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
could allen iverson really not cover a guy like derek fisher? sure it takes energy and effort, but i believe he could, just wont
So, you're using Derek Fisher as an example huh? okay, then how do you explain this?.

Derek Fisher{Iversons cover} shot 43% in the series, which is not a good percentage, neither is it that horrible.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/derek_fisher/

Luke fricken Walton{Melo's cover} of all people shot an unbelievable 71% in the series.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luke_walton/
Sure, once again blame Iverson for not doing a good job of defending his man, while the other star did even worse of a job and yet let him go unmentioned, right?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
carmelo is THE ONLY top scoring player in the nba that is not given easier defensive assignments- why? because iverson already has the weak draw
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
if iverson averages 7 assists a game at least 5 of those likely come from his bail out passes to mid to longer range jumpshots from camby kmart or carmelo- how many of those assists come from iverson truelly setting up a teammate for any easy hoop? 1 or maybe 2 a game would imo be stretching it- assists IMO are the by product of ball movement, they are not the only reason behind a pass-to me iverson is never invoved w ball movement- in alot of ways iverson make plenty of attempts for assists, but there is no in between an attemped shot or an attempted assist- very rarely does ai pass it to someone early and in a way that puts that player in a good position- he has to look for his first & then think about passing
Umm.. how'd you pull out 5? I'm just curious, do you know this as a fact or did you just pull that number out of your ass?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
making everything a so does carmelo argument is also completely clueless to say- a majority of the offensive possesions are dominated in the first 10-15 seconds of the shot clock by the gaurds- mainly iverson- most of the times carmelo gets the ball is in the last 10 or 5 seconds on the clock & by that time a majority of our offensive plan is to have everybody stand and watch
Why do you think that is? maybe because it is by design? as in it was in George Karls playbook(if he even has one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
i understand that you put more blame on anthony carter for alot of the team defieciancies that we agree on- ball movement, team play, & defending the opposing gaurds
I don't really blame him for it, I blame Karl for giving him that role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
but take the names off the jerseys and any basketball team and coaching staff at ANY LEVEL of basketball, and? the player with iversons skill set would have to be the point gaurd- to blame a guy who should be the 14th player is wrong- that guy shouldnt even see the court, while the guy with iversons ability would have to do certain things- handle the ball & defend the other teams guard- but because hes allen iverson the whole team should be adjusted to him? to me that is so wrong i cant explain it
The whole team? yeah right, maybe except one guy?. I won't mention his name because I know you're getting tiresome of it by now, but whenever this player touches the ball he is either going to shoot the ball or shoot the damn ball over and over again instead of looking to pass it to a teammate who is open. Have you guessed who?. ........Scratch that, more like 2 guys and they're both on my avy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
-team play and selflessnes are the most important aspects of basketball- each player has to do things that the team needs, not just the parts you want to do-selfishness has no part in basketball
Everyone knows by now that the "Nuggets" + "Team play/work" + "Selfessness" do not go together and cannot blame it on just one guy like you're doing because everyone shares that responsibilty, not just one guy.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #15
KRAYZIE
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Default Re: Official Thread: Off-Season Trades, Rumors, News, Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreSucka
Not to interrupt this debate we've got here, I'm actually enjoying it...

But it looks like OKC is going after JR too, now.
Source? Can't find it.
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