ATL refuses to pay Josh Smith more than 9 mil...

[ConanRulesNBC]

And who will the Bulls get in return for Noah? He's the best actual big man they have (next to Gooden) and if you pair him up with a PF who can score he'd be a 10/10 player probably.

[vmdv12]

Originally Posted by IN-PAX-WE-TRUST

not to be buzz kill here, but why would Atlanta trade a guy who thinks he is worth 13 million for another guy who thinks he is worth 13 million??

Well..I've read more than a few times that ATL doesn't like his attitude. Deng has made the Bulls proud with his off the court contributions. Which then raises the question...then why would the Bulls trade Deng? I guess only if the numbers don't work out. Josh Smith and Tyrus together....ouch!! That's a lot of blocks and dunks! I would do that trade...but then I would keep Gordon.

[CelticForce1349]

Originally Posted by ConanRulesNBC

And who will the Bulls get in return for Noah? He's the best actual big man they have (next to Gooden) and if you pair him up with a PF who can score he'd be a 10/10 player probably.

You didn't type that for me did you? I think I covered that issue thoroughly.

[Bulls_Fan20]

I think we should extend an offer sheet to Josh Smith. If Atlanta is serious in not wanting to give him more than $9 million/year, then why not offer a 5-year, $50 million contract? I do agree that Smith is better than Deng. He's more athletic, has more range on his shot, and is better defensively. He won't put up the percentages that Deng does, but in the end, I think he brings a lot more to the team. He can step out and hit a 3-pointer, so imagine him with Nocioni and Gordon on the floor at the same time. Rose penetrates, and has 3 separate options to pass to that can all drain it, so the defense can't sag off anyone except the center, who then gets the pass from Rose for the easy dunk. We haven't had a PF shooting 3's since Rodman, and that doesn't really count (although I have to admit that when he hit one is was more exciting than just about any shot Jordan would make).

[drwax26]

Originally Posted by kshutts1

Sorry to chime in so late, but why do we want josh smith again? So we can have yet ANOTHER offensively challenged frontcourt player? Seriously, we'd win the title if all that mattered was potential of players in the backcourt becoming scorers and players in the frontcourt being freak athletes. Unfortunately, that's not how you win. Josh Smith, while a better player than Deng, is not better FOR US. Not with our current team. Now if we get rid of other players, and play Josh at the 4....

Offensively challenged r u serious, do u have a brain, he only averaged 17 ppg and 8 rpg and shot 45.7% from the field. He did all this while going up against ppl bigger and stronger than him. He is naturally a SF. Get that bum Deng outta here. Josh is bigger stronger quicker, drives better handles better need i keep going.

Then u get a lineup of:

Hinrich- I hate him.
?-All of our SG suck to me, hopefully someone who brings defense and can shoot 3's. Alas washington larry hughes
Smith
Gooden
Noah- Even though we need a bigger center maybe Jamaal Magloire

That would be a solid lineup. Then you have rose, BG, Thabo, TT and possibly Gray off the bench.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Originally Posted by CelticForce1349

You didn't type that for me did you? I think I covered that issue thoroughly.

You said the Bulls should go after Okafur or another player that might be what the Bulls need. IMO, they shouldn't even think about trading Noah until they have Okafur. Like him or not Noah is the Bulls only real starting C on the team right now. Drew Gooden is too small to play center and Aaron Gray isn't that good.

Like I said... I think Noah will be just fine if Paxson pairs him up with a PF who can score. I think Noah can be a 10/10 Tyson Chandler kind of player only with a much better offense.

[Dengness9]

Originally Posted by CelticForce1349

Still having trouble figuring it out eh? I will give you 3 reasons just for starters.

1) The Hawks management have known for quite some length of time that Mike Woodson ( the head coach) and Josh Smith have been clashing for numerous reasons.

They just re-signed Woodson to a large longterm contract, while they continue to drag their heels and have yet to even make an offer to Smith. Can you guess where the loyalty of the brass is on this one?

2)After seeing the excitement that making the playoffs has given the fans, (those people that have just started to take interest in the team again after years of little interest) and the ticket sales, merchandise money, etc, that they bring, the owner and management want to keep the ball rolling.

They can't afford to have such a young team and have one of their best players questioning the abilities of the coach or creating a distraction to the goal of the team.

3) The Hawks need someone to do what Smith does and are probally looking elsewhere for that person.

A) When Deng is at his best he can put up numbers NEARLY as good as Smith.

B) Many former Bulls players often play better after leaving and that would certainly be considered by the Hawks organization in evaluating Deng's worth to their team.

C) Deng is considered to be a model citizen which is usually valued quite highly and would probally bring positive energy to a team AFTER he leaves the Bulls.

The Hawks can afford to make this change/take this risk because they have money to spare now that Josh Childress just left them today to go play in Greece. As of today their pockets are pretty deep.

Are you starting to see it now homie, or are you just one of those Deng fanatics that doesn't want to lose his favorite player?

Celtic, Woodson didn't get a "long term" contract. A 2 year contract is about the shortest a contract for a coach can be basically cuz I haven't heard of 1 year deals to often, if ever. I've time and again heard and read that the Hawks ****ed up management/ownership was pressured into giving Woodson a deal bcuz he finally got the Hawks to playoffs and out of the lottery zone.

Smith and Deng are different players, and I probably would not say Deng at his best puts up numbers "close" to J smooth.

Deng at his best is 20 and 8 in the regular season, and 26 and 9 in a 4 game sweep of defending champs in the playoffs, or 22 and 7 in 10 games in the playoffs.

I would give an edge to Josh when comparing who's ultimately better between the 2, however they are completely different players and bring different valuable skill sets to their squads.

[CelticForce1349]

Originally Posted by Dengness9

Celtic, Woodson didn't get a "long term" contract. A 2 year contract is about the shortest a contract can be basically cuz I haven't heard of 1 year deals to often, if ever. I've time and again that the Hawks ****ed up management/ownership was pressured into giving Woodson a deal bcuz he finally got the Hawks to playoffs and out of the lottery zone.

Smith and Deng are different players, and I probably would not say Deng at his best puts up numbers "close" to J smooth.

Deng at his best is 20 and 8 in the regular season, and 26 and 9 in a 4 game sweep of defending champs in the playoffs, or 22 and 7 in 10 games in the playoffs.

I would give an edge to Josh when comparing who's ultimately better between the 2, however they are completely different players and bring different valuable skill sets to their squads.

Thanks for the correction on the length of the contract with Woodson. I had read 4 years in two different articles.

You make some good points comparing Smith and Deng. It always seems to come to Smith being the better of the two when looked at closely though, does it not?

I don't think the two are that far apart in terms of value, but the Noah for a 2nd round pick might be needed to make the deal.

[Dengness9]

My problem with a Deng/Noah for Smith/draft pick is your giving up 2 starters and your only true center.

I know ur not high on Noah celtic, but despite a ****ty summer league, I'm personally not worried. I know he will always play hard, and is basically a legit 7'. He has good bball Iq, runs the floor well for what should be a fastbreak team, rebounds around double digits, and hustles on D. I think he will be around 10/10 on the Bulls this year with starting C mins, preferablly almost 30.

Hey I HATED Noah at Florida but once u don that Bulls jersey ur like family. Noah has a lot of heart and he really cares about winning. Year 2 should be a lot smoother for Joakim.

Dig it.

[final.wrath]

Originally Posted by Bulls_Fan20

I think we should extend an offer sheet to Josh Smith. If Atlanta is serious in not wanting to give him more than $9 million/year, then why not offer a 5-year, $50 million contract? I do agree that Smith is better than Deng. He's more athletic, has more range on his shot, and is better defensively. He won't put up the percentages that Deng does, but in the end, I think he brings a lot more to the team. He can step out and hit a 3-pointer, so imagine him with Nocioni and Gordon on the floor at the same time. Rose penetrates, and has 3 separate options to pass to that can all drain it, so the defense can't sag off anyone except the center, who then gets the pass from Rose for the easy dunk. We haven't had a PF shooting 3's since Rodman, and that doesn't really count (although I have to admit that when he hit one is was more exciting than just about any shot Jordan would make).

foolishness. every fan should know their own team's cap situation.

[eeeeeebro]

Originally Posted by IN-PAX-WE-TRUST

not to be buzz kill here, but why would Atlanta trade a guy who thinks he is worth 13 million for another guy who thinks he is worth 13 million??

because josh smith can guard paul peirce and deng cannot. then again deng has done a good job on peirce. WELL my point is josh smith is worth 13 mil and deng is not.

[El Kabong]

IN-PAX-WE-TRUST is right. If the Hawks don't want to give Josh Smith over $9 million a year, what makes you think they'd want to do a S&T and pay Deng that much?

[babybulls85]

Originally Posted by El Kabong

IN-PAX-WE-TRUST is right. If the Hawks don't want to give Josh Smith over $9 million a year, what makes you think they'd want to do a S&T and pay Deng that much?

they wouldn't, that's the flaw of this entire debate

[Bulls_Fan20]

Originally Posted by final.wrath

foolishness. every fan should know their own team's cap situation.

What are you talking about? The Bulls have plenty of room under the cap to sign Josh Smith. They wouldn't be able to resign Deng and/or Gordon without going way over the luxury tax threshhold, which is the only negative, because we all know that the Bulls will not be going over the cap limit.

If we sign him to an offer sheet, it would force Atlanta's hand. They can't afford to lose him for nothing, and if they match the offer, so what?

[CelticForce1349]

Originally Posted by Bulls_Fan20

What are you talking about? The Bulls have plenty of room under the cap to sign Josh Smith. They wouldn't be able to resign Deng and/or Gordon without going way over the luxury tax threshhold, which is the only negative, because we all know that the Bulls will not be going over the cap limit.

If we sign him to an offer sheet, it would force Atlanta's hand. They can't afford to lose him for nothing, and if they match the offer, so what?

lol/ Final.Wrath is just upset because of this...


"It's no secret the Detroit Pistons are among the teams watching the Josh Smith drama in Atlanta unfold with a lot of interest. But according to a league official, a published report in Atlanta that made reference to an "Eastern Conference team" having a sign-and-trade offer on the table for Smith, is not Detroit." Michigan Live


Oh, and for those of you that are huge Deng fans that keep asking why, why , why, would Atlanta do this sign-and-trade? I already mentioned about 40 times in this thread I fully expect them to ask for Noah in order to make the deal.

I think there is only a small chance that they might do a sign and trade of Smith for Deng. I only see this happening if they feel that ( this deal) will be the only way to keep team chemistry and avoid having a top player question the head coach so openly.

The Hawks are a team full of management problems that have made some bad moves not unlike "our" Bulls. They are in a critical situation to convince fans that they are doing everything to improve the team this summer.

I expect the Atlanta Hawks management to do something "big" this summer. Whether or not the general feeling around the league is they made a good move or bad move when it all over is another issue.

Atlanta would look pretty good ( in my opinion) to land Deng and Noah. They have the cap room to do it and as I already stated they get the center they want to keep Horford at the P.F. position. It's not that hard to see that Atlanta is betting their future on building their team on the inside-outside success of Horford and Joe Johnson.