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Old 08-31-2006, 07:00 PM   #16
RapsFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptorballfan

It's like Raptors fans don't believe that our team can actually compete for a championship. At some point our fans have to lose the mentality of drafting "The next big thing" and start thinking on a broader scale. We already have our base of young players, we can't waste another year waiting for that one final piece. The reality is, even if we were to draft the best player from next years draft, we still need to build a team around the core. There is a lot more to be done than just to add one more draft pick.

Let's stop talking about drafting that one saviour, and start looking at team needs and work towards something more exciting than another boring draft.

I just don't know what Raptor team you have been watching. I am watching the one that didn't win 30 games and has been horrible for a number of years. It takes time to get better. As for team needs, we need a 2nd all star calibar player (please don't say TJ is), to team with Bosh and Bargs to form the core you are talking about. Building through the draft is also one of the cheapest ways of improving the talent level on the roster. I 100% agree with what you are saying, if we were say the Grizz or Nuggets as an example. But we're at a full tier or two below those teams. We need to get that huge talent, and they tweak the roster to put us over the hump. TJ/Thaddeus/Bosh/Bargs.... then you just maybe need a verteren shooter or defender (maybe Mo if he's still a Raptor). To me, it's pretty logical, instead of having Tj/Bosh/Bargs and not that top level talent. You're expecting BC to be the saviour to add these pieces to a team that is still not a huge free agent draw and without huge cap dollars, to get us to a title? Which scenario is more realistic to Raptor fans and has a better probability to actually sniffing a title in the next 10 years?
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
TJ/Thaddeus/Bosh/Bargs.... then you just maybe need a verteren shooter or defender (maybe Mo if he's still a Raptor).

I've noticed that this is the second time you have mentioned Thaddeus Young in a post, regarding the Raps' first-round pick next year. Do you know much about him, talent-wise? I haven't really heard anything about him myself, so I was just curious. Personally, I was hoping for either Corey Brewer, who plays excellent defense and can shoot the 3 and also has the size to play the SF; or if Bargs doesn't pan out as a center, Joakim Noah (cause realistically, we don't have a chance at Oden), because of his shot-blocking and rebounding skills. As a third option, maybe Kevin Durant because if he really is a Kevin Garnett-like player, how can you go wrong with him?
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:49 PM   #18
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I hear what all of you are saying, but allow me to respond. First of all, if we wait this year with the roster we have, and then draft a player that gets injured, then we've wasted a year. I'm not disagreeing that an injury can happen to anyone, all I'm saying is that if our ONLY plan is to get a player in next years draft before we really start building, that's just too much of a risk to take.

Second, I don't disagree that ending up in the draft next year is a possibility, I just happen to think that we should end up there by accident instead of as a plan. I think that B.C. should do everything he can to create a team that can make the playoffs THIS YEAR. If we happen to get killed in the first round then so be it. But if we can sign a few new players (perhaps European players who we have connections to which other teams don't) or trade for a few players, and try to get to the level that makes us a playoff capable team, then we are in a MUCH better position then if we just wait to draft the next big thing.

Being as specific as suggesting that we get a SPECIFIC player in next years draft, before we've even played a single game this year, is a poor long term plan. If Colangelo can develop this team into a first round playoff team, or perhaps a team that can surprise the opposition and squeak into the second round, then suddenly you are looking at a roster full of tradeable assets. Currently the Raptors have almost no tradeable assets.

As far as being in Memphis' position as opposed to ours, I'd say that we're not as well off as them. I agree that I as a fan like the make-up of our team compared to theirs, but as a GM, we've got nothing. A playoff team has assets, we don't.

If we want a draft pick in 2007, we shouldn't be so foolish as to secretly hope that we don't make the playoffs. We should do everything we can to win, and then TRADE for a draft pick. That's how you build a franchise. I've been a fan since day one, and shared season's tickets through the first couple of years, I've seen the Raptors hope to build their future out of the next big draft. It doesn't work!

If you have a decent team with tradeable assets, then you can trade up in the draft and grab the rookie to add to your core. If you have a team that has sat and waited for the draft, you can get screwed! You may end up with a lower pick then you need, you may find that other teams are able to trade up because they have assets that you don't. There are too many scenarios that can go wrong if you hope to draft the next big thing.

Keep in mind also, Bosh only signed for 3 years with a player option for the fourth. Telling Bosh to wait another year so that they can add that ONE final piece before they REALLY start building for a championship is just plain foolish. Telling Bosh that we're going to do everything that we can to win now, and if things fail then we'll try to draft that next big thing, is a plan that is worth getting excited about.

I'm all for trying to draft well in 2007, but I don't think that should be our plan "A". It has to be our plan if things go poorly, or it can be a small part of our plan for when things go well. Hoping for one more, as yet, unproven rookie is not going to bring us a championship. Building a winning team and adding pieces like rookies or veterans IS what brings a championship.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:59 PM   #19
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I just think you're so sure we can 'build a winning team' and trade up in the draft, like that is so easy to do. You're sure about that, but you say things like waiting for the draft and we'll be 'screwed' or the huge risk that our draft pick will get injured? I am just not sure how you can be so certain of these magical trades with other teams. Who do we have to offer that any team will give up a lottery pick? It's not going to happen.

BC's job is to create a long term winning situation, not a one trick team. Memphis has been in a rut for years as they NEVER get good young talent, so they eventually realized it and had to trade away a solid team leader just to get a potential star in Rudy Gay. To me, that is not where I want us to end up.

As I said before, we play as hard as we can. BC makes all the moves he can to improve our team (but I again guarantee he won't be dealing young players for aging vets just to make some fans happy about a playoff birth). If we do A LOT better then expected (at least to this fan), then we make the playoffs and we're forced to get over the hump with free agency (despite limited financial flexibility for a number of years) and trades. If we miss, we get a nice addition to the roster.

This draft isn't just one of two guys...this draft has like 15+ guys who could be huge additions to a number of teams. I mentioned Young b/c he's a wing palyer, which we need, with great size, athleticism, range on his jumper. HE can also defend and rebound. There are others like Durant, either Wright, Brewer, Williams, Walker etc etc that could be a potential all star talent at the SF or SG for the Raps. Draft picks don't cost a lot of money and they can team with TJ/Bosh/Bargs to form a great foundation, to THEN add the missing pieces such as a shooter, banger, leader etc etc.

I just hate 'fake' committment to winning....if that makes sense. You see it all the time in sports. Teams that just year to year, make the playoffs and have no real chance of ever winning.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:52 PM   #20
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Noah would be a bad pick, I am telling everybody right, he will be a waste in the first round...
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Old 09-02-2006, 01:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
......I am just not sure how you can be so certain of these magical trades with other teams. Who do we have to offer that any team will give up a lottery pick? It's not going to happen.

...This draft isn't just one of two guys...this draft has like 15+ guys who could be huge additions to a number of teams........

.....I just hate 'fake' committment to winning....if that makes sense. You see it all the time in sports. Teams that just year to year, make the playoffs and have no real chance of ever winning.

I agree with you for the most part. I understand your perspective, I really do. I don't think we're that far apart. The reason that I'm certain of these "magical trades" is because it's like you say. There are probably 15 guys who could be huge additions to any team. If there are 15 guys, then we'll be in a position to trade with up to 15 teams. If we were to be a playoff team, we would have tradeable assets to talk to those teams.

And, like you said, "who do we have to offer that any team will give up a lottery pick" I agree, we don't have anybody. That's why I want to see B.C. add as much as he can. Trust me, if we DON'T make the playoffs, then we're stuck with whatever lottery pick we get. If we DO make the playoffs, then we've developed a team with a few tradeable assets to be in the mix so that we can deal with those "15 or so" teams.

Believe me, I don't want to be one of those teams with a fake commitment to winning either. I just think that waiting ANOTHER year for yet ANOTHER draft as the long term solution tells the player, fans, and media, that we're not serious about making an effort to win until NEXT year. We've been using the slogan "wait til next year" for too long, in my opinion. I just don't think it has to be like that.

I do respect your point of view, I just happen to think that there's a better way.
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Old 09-03-2006, 07:55 PM   #22
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Default WOW you ALL are reading to deeply!!!

I was only hoping that we were able to pick up any player in the first round,,,,

The odds of us getting in the top 7 of the draft are very slim if even not possible...

As a from the beginning raptors fan I beleive we already have the right core players to compete 4 a championship in 3 years ....that being said there will be trades/signings that fill in the holes which will show more when the season is at the midway point....this year.

I beleive we have gotten better offence & Defence....
Were not tough inside but we are way better on paper then last year ....if the player manage to figure out how to play togeather this year they will make the playoffs ...now who knows what will happen after that....

Like I said I was only hoping to get a peice of the 2007 Draft Seeing as there are alote of good players this year...
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:09 PM   #23
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Default Waiting till next year is not an option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We got the #1 pick a whole bung of solid role players/vets....
and the one all-star that will make the rest of the team better....
we have 2 point guards...
and watch out 4 our 3 ball shooting cause only 6 players on the toronto roster aren't good at shooting the 3 ball....
+ we will get alote better at rebouding if Rasho gets some good minutes
& Andrea will surprise alote of people if not this year then next....
I have seen him play in person and I think he has the ability to be better than Dirk....
he has better smoother jump shot he has more hopps well only a little better....
his post moves are better....blocks shots better....and he's quicker
the only thing that needs big time improvement is his rebounding!!!
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