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Old 08-19-2008, 04:25 AM   #16
Trax416
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

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Originally Posted by High Potential
David Beckham was never the best player in England. He scored a goal from midfield and that's when the overrating of him began. He used to be great at free kicks but now guys like Ronaldo, Pirlo and Juninho have surpassed him in that, and they are better players overall than he ever was. Even in his Manchester United days, he was probably the fifth or sixth best player on his own team, behind Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Schmeigel, Ferdinand and Van Nistelrooy.

Take a look at that. All of those players are clearly better than Beckham, and in Beckham's own midfield: Keane, Giggs, and Scholes, Beckham was the worst.

Don't talk out of your ass.

How about you don't talk out of your ass.

My wife and her entire famile are from Manchester.

Beckham has been runner up for FIFA player of the year twice. Both times being won by someone who was not English. During those two years, he was the best player England had. He has also been the Captain of the English National Football Club, and helped Manchester win the FA Cup, Premier League and champions league in a single year. If it was not for his tying goal, they would not have won the Premier League in the first place.

He has also won or been listed on.

PFA Young Player of the Year: 1997
Named in 1998 FIFA World Cup All-star team
FIFA World Player Of The Year Award finalist TWICE
UEFA Club Player of the Year Winner: 1999
UEFA Club Player of the Year Finalist: 2001
Named in Pelé's FIFA 100 list of the greatest living players.

He is a 6 time Premier League champion, 2 time FA cup winner, UEFA Champions league winner, Won the International Cup, 4 time Community Shield winner, FA Youth player of the year, and 1 time Primera Division Champion.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

His celebrity is what is making people overrate him. Paul Scholes, his fellow Englishman and teammate from his Manchester years, always was, and still is better than David Beckham. I'd say that Beckham is about on the same level as Ole G. Solskjaer, but that is nothing to be ashamed of. Beckham was never the best player in England. Any football fan will tell you the same. I don't know why Americans always think the guy was as good as Ronaldinho at his peak, they overrate Beckham because he's the only player they know.


How can you argue that Beckham is better than his United teammates in midfield Keane, Scholes and Giggs?

All of them played in England at the same time as Beckham and they were all better than he is. Notice how Scholes and Giggs are still playing topflight football in Manchester United, while Beckham is rotting in the elephants graveyard that is the MLS. Also just because he is captain of England that doesn't make him Englands best player. Some say the only reason he even appears on the team is due to sponsorship contracts, similar to how Lebron gets so much playing time on team USA.

Also, every football fan knows that while Pele is a genius on the field, he is the opposite off the field, especially when it comes to evaluating talent. Remember what he said about Adu?
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

can't believe a ricky rubio thread turned into an argument over david beckham
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

watched rubio tonight... he definitely has a lot of talent, but still has a long way to go with his decision making... there were way too many times that he tried to make the spectacular play and it wound up being a turnover

when those plays work, you wind up with things like his highlight videos, but the success rate on some of those types of plays seems to be way too low, at least tonight

but he does have amazing court vision and is actually quicker than I expected.. which is something I was worried about having never actually seen him play in a real game before.

his jumpshot though... very ugly. that needs to change. still, overall I'm very impressed with him, especially given his age
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

I've looked into this guy a lot and he is a phenomal player. Thing is everyone thinks he is going to be picked by OKC and I'm just not sure because he wouldn't fit in right now.

Anyone have thoughts on what team he will go to?
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

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Originally Posted by Buffalobraves
Anyone have thoughts on what team he will go to?

hard to look all the way to the 2010 draft(SINCE HE WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE 09 DRAFT)- but teams that look to be going nowhere? bobcats, maybe new york, minnisota, or memphis- 1 injury could by that time really hurt the suns, nuggets or rockets

rubio would fit best playing with and passing to carmelo, jr smith(if re-signed) and nene (if healthy)
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

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Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub
hard to look all the way to the 2010 draft(SINCE HE WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE 09 DRAFT)- but teams that look to be going nowhere? bobcats, maybe new york, minnisota, or memphis- 1 injury could by that time really hurt the suns, nuggets or rockets

rubio would fit best playing with and passing to carmelo, jr smith(if re-signed) and nene (if healthy)
That's what some thought. But because he will turn 19 within the calendar year he IS eligible for the 2009 draft.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:55 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

over rated

brandon jennings > ricky rubio
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

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Originally Posted by Posterize246
That's what some thought. But because he will turn 19 within the calendar year he IS eligible for the 2009 draft.

thank you for telling me that- i had been getting sick of hearing about something i "thought" was impossible-

i really want to like the guy and hope he does great(especially if he fills the pg hole in denver), the guy shows passing skills & the want to be a pg imo, but when is the last time someone with so little physical dominance was thought to be such a top level prospect? i hope he lives up to the hype though because i dont remember any foreign prospect hyped like this

so far i have to agree about jennings being ahead of rubio, jennings has been the best player in each game ive seen him in- though that view proboby isnt fair at all comparing the hs all star games of jennings to rubio playing team usa & the rest of the olympics
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:09 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

I posted this in a thread in the main forum titled "Have we overrated Ricky Rubio". I put it here mostly because there seems more chance of serious dialogue. There are some good thoughts in there though if anyone cares to search it. I apologize in advance for the lack of David Beckham input.:



First, I really like Rubio. I had seen prior to these olympics, as much as I could find on him, and was glad to see he was being given a bigger role than previously expected on the spanish team. He plays what I consider a beautifull game. I've never been enamored with dunks, or even finishes in general, as much as plays to lead to shots so easy that nothing complicated is possible. In fact, if you can squeeze a ball into a spot so tight that nothing but the most basic simple shot possible can be gotten off, that to me is the highlight of highlights.
Everytime I saw Rubio, the same thing jumped to mind. He had to work on his jumper, and he had to get stronger physically. He's never going to be a plus athlete at the NBA level. But at 6-4, he's got long wings, and he's quicker than he looks, with good defensive instincts, so I figured he'd get by.
However, the more I watch him, the less I believe he's going to be great. I don't actually think he's going to get enough stronger for it to ever not be an issue. I know he's young, and it's not like he's small, he is 6-4, but he just doesn't have a great frame. He's narrow through the shoulders, and in the hips, and usually guys who are thin when there young, if they have broad shoulders and hips, have the room to fill out. As for the jumpshot, he doesn't even have the foundation that I can project real improvement. Derrick Rose wasn't a great shooter this past year, but it was easy to see why people were able to overlook it because he had such a strong base to build from. Rubio still shows a need to get his shot up over his head from range, which is something I work on with kids at the middle school level.
Then I start thinking about the comps thrown around about the guy, and the ones I think of. The league built around iso play, which actually minimizes all the things that make Rubio special. It also hurts what he brings to the table defensively. He needs guys to be constantly moving around him, so he can use his gifts to find the seams that only a handfull of people can find. There are only a few players in the league still like that. Jason Kidd is this type of player, but Kidd, while never an elite athlete, is exceptionally strong for a PG, something I'm not sure Rubio will ever be above average in. Kidd could use his strength to force the issue.
Brent Barry at one time brought a similar wiry build to the game, and probably not the same level of instincts, but he was very natural. He however was a plus shooter and athlete for a while.
Jason Williams had a game like that, but it only worked when he was still good enough to demand the ball. That sort of thing is what make Rubio something of a boom or bust prospect in my eyes, because if he turns out good enough, his skill set will shine, but he'll have a harder time functioning as a perephery player.
The guys with bad jumpers who've made it on the wing are a short list too. And most of them are elite level athletes. Guys in that size range that come to mind are Leandro Barbosa, and while Rubio can push tempo, probably not like that, and finishing may be an issue as well.
The guy who's got a creative type of game like that, minust the jumper, and the plus athleticism ... Jamal Tinsley. That's not exactly the type of guy I'd be dying to put in as a cornerstone. Tinsley is 6-3 by the way, so it's not like the size is that off. Obviously the hope is that Rubio won't completely waste his talents with one of the worst attitudes in the league, and I don't think he's got quite the proclivity to dominate the ball that Tinsley does, but then again he's never played in an iso offense. It's not a total knock, Tinsley at his best was a very good player, and a guy who was great to watch. But under no circumstances did he ever seem like a guy who you take in the top five of a draft. Shaun Livingston also brought some similar stuff to the floor as well, both strengths and weaknesses, but did so at 6-7. Unfortunately he brings little track record to go by, although his slight frame did seem to be a problem, and he was already running into issues with guys playing off him because of his jumper.

So is he overrated. I don't think he's overrated as a basketball player, but I'm beginning to think he's overrated as an NBA prospect. His strengths are simply the exact opposite of what the league focuses on. And his weaknesses are rife for exploitation as well. The two big Ifs about his physical stature and jumper could push him into a different player, but I wouldn't be comfortable enough at this point with either to make me want to take him at three. The league just doesn't go after these types of players like this usually, which makes me wonder if they'll know what to do with him once they get him, and if he'll be thrown under the bus when he can't change the face of a franchised in two years. Every guy drafted in the top five in the past decade was either a big, a decidedly better athlete, or a markedly better shooter, with the exception of Livingston. That seems odd.
I hope he does well, I really think the style he brings to the game is something that's sorely missing in the league. But I'm afraid of what his failure could mean. Sadly, if he were taken at 14, he'd have a 16 assist night, be considered a steal, his shortcomings would brushed aside, and his jersey would be all over playgrounds everywhere the next summer. At three that won't happen.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:11 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I posted this in a thread in the main forum titled "Have we overrated Ricky Rubio". I put it here mostly because there seems more chance of serious dialogue. There are some good thoughts in there though if anyone cares to search it. I apologize in advance for the lack of David Beckham input.:



First, I really like Rubio. I had seen prior to these olympics, as much as I could find on him, and was glad to see he was being given a bigger role than previously expected on the spanish team. He plays what I consider a beautifull game. I've never been enamored with dunks, or even finishes in general, as much as plays to lead to shots so easy that nothing complicated is possible. In fact, if you can squeeze a ball into a spot so tight that nothing but the most basic simple shot possible can be gotten off, that to me is the highlight of highlights.
Everytime I saw Rubio, the same thing jumped to mind. He had to work on his jumper, and he had to get stronger physically. He's never going to be a plus athlete at the NBA level. But at 6-4, he's got long wings, and he's quicker than he looks, with good defensive instincts, so I figured he'd get by.
However, the more I watch him, the less I believe he's going to be great. I don't actually think he's going to get enough stronger for it to ever not be an issue. I know he's young, and it's not like he's small, he is 6-4, but he just doesn't have a great frame. He's narrow through the shoulders, and in the hips, and usually guys who are thin when there young, if they have broad shoulders and hips, have the room to fill out. As for the jumpshot, he doesn't even have the foundation that I can project real improvement. Derrick Rose wasn't a great shooter this past year, but it was easy to see why people were able to overlook it because he had such a strong base to build from. Rubio still shows a need to get his shot up over his head from range, which is something I work on with kids at the middle school level.
Then I start thinking about the comps thrown around about the guy, and the ones I think of. The league built around iso play, which actually minimizes all the things that make Rubio special. It also hurts what he brings to the table defensively. He needs guys to be constantly moving around him, so he can use his gifts to find the seams that only a handfull of people can find. There are only a few players in the league still like that. Jason Kidd is this type of player, but Kidd, while never an elite athlete, is exceptionally strong for a PG, something I'm not sure Rubio will ever be above average in. Kidd could use his strength to force the issue.
Brent Barry at one time brought a similar wiry build to the game, and probably not the same level of instincts, but he was very natural. He however was a plus shooter and athlete for a while.
Jason Williams had a game like that, but it only worked when he was still good enough to demand the ball. That sort of thing is what make Rubio something of a boom or bust prospect in my eyes, because if he turns out good enough, his skill set will shine, but he'll have a harder time functioning as a perephery player.
The guys with bad jumpers who've made it on the wing are a short list too. And most of them are elite level athletes. Guys in that size range that come to mind are Leandro Barbosa, and while Rubio can push tempo, probably not like that, and finishing may be an issue as well.
The guy who's got a creative type of game like that, minust the jumper, and the plus athleticism ... Jamal Tinsley. That's not exactly the type of guy I'd be dying to put in as a cornerstone. Tinsley is 6-3 by the way, so it's not like the size is that off. Obviously the hope is that Rubio won't completely waste his talents with one of the worst attitudes in the league, and I don't think he's got quite the proclivity to dominate the ball that Tinsley does, but then again he's never played in an iso offense. It's not a total knock, Tinsley at his best was a very good player, and a guy who was great to watch. But under no circumstances did he ever seem like a guy who you take in the top five of a draft. Shaun Livingston also brought some similar stuff to the floor as well, both strengths and weaknesses, but did so at 6-7. Unfortunately he brings little track record to go by, although his slight frame did seem to be a problem, and he was already running into issues with guys playing off him because of his jumper.

So is he overrated. I don't think he's overrated as a basketball player, but I'm beginning to think he's overrated as an NBA prospect. His strengths are simply the exact opposite of what the league focuses on. And his weaknesses are rife for exploitation as well. The two big Ifs about his physical stature and jumper could push him into a different player, but I wouldn't be comfortable enough at this point with either to make me want to take him at three. The league just doesn't go after these types of players like this usually, which makes me wonder if they'll know what to do with him once they get him, and if he'll be thrown under the bus when he can't change the face of a franchised in two years. Every guy drafted in the top five in the past decade was either a big, a decidedly better athlete, or a markedly better shooter, with the exception of Livingston. That seems odd.
I hope he does well, I really think the style he brings to the game is something that's sorely missing in the league. But I'm afraid of what his failure could mean. Sadly, if he were taken at 14, he'd have a 16 assist night, be considered a steal, his shortcomings would brushed aside, and his jersey would be all over playgrounds everywhere the next summer. At three that won't happen.
You make the best posts on ISH.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

Thanks.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

Man that was way to long to read I will just say that rubio looks good but the man cant play defense and turns the ball over way to much
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

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Originally Posted by Grizzled Mayo
Man that was way to long to read I will just say that rubio looks good but the man cant play defense and turns the ball over way to much

he actually plays defense quite well. He rotates very well, plays the passing lanes very well, has very active hands... and yes, he's even got pretty quick feet laterally

he needs to get stronger, and he's not an athletic freak, but I don't know where you get off saying "the man can't play defense"

the turnovers are an issue though. Like I said in my first post, that's the biggest problem with him right now... he tries too often to make the spectacular play, and it winds up being a turnover too often. That and his jumpshot are his biggest weaknesses.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ricky Rubio

Defense is a borderline strength. Especially if he can be put next to some on ball type guys, because he's really good off the ball. He's not going to be an on ball stopper though.
The turnovers honestly don't bother me that much. Sure, I'd like to see them come down some, but most really big time playmakers are turnover prone, especially in their youth. And the one advantage of him playing in a more athlete friendly league is that a lot of his good looks but less good passes will be covered up by guys more able to go get it.

The jumper is a huge problem, and if it doesn't get a lot better, he'll never be able to get guys close enough to beat them, because he's never going to be strong enough to got through them. His issues have something of a dominoe effect it seems to me.
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