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Old 07-30-2008, 09:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

EFFIN HORRIBLE!!! just when i thought paxson was doin a good job! altho believe a sleuth named reinsdorf is behind this
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Yea they overpaid for Deng, but I guess that's what he thought he was worth. I would have given him something in the range of 54-60 million and not more because he's not worth more money at this point. With a contract like this I hope Deng becomes better than what most of us expect him to become. I sure hope he surprises us all and becomes a beast on the court because he's getting payed all star money.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

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Originally Posted by DwadeOverLebron
EFFIN HORRIBLE!!! just when i thought paxson was doin a good job! altho believe a sleuth named reinsdorf is behind this

I've got to agree with you this is far from a fair deal for the Bulls. I thought 55 million would be a generous deal for Deng, but I never expected anything as high as 70 million! It's all star or bust with a contract like this!
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:51 AM   #19
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Post Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
How much cap space does that leave for Gordon? Anyone keeping track?

Well, with Rose's contract, we had almost $54 million on the books with a $58.68 cap limit, so we are way over that now. The luxury tax threshold is at $71.15 million, and Deng will make $9.4 million his first season, so that leaves us with $7.75 million for Gordon before we start paying taxes.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

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Originally Posted by IN-PAX-WE-TRUST
ok people... get this through your head... the Hawks were not going to trade Josh Smith for Deng... jesus.... while we are at it why don't we trade Ben Gordon for Lebron...

I agree, we are not going to trade for Josh Smith. I am happy with the signing, at least it shows that Paxson does have a heartbeat and can get something done. I just wish that it didn't take Deng twisting our arm to get the deal done. I have to just come to the fact that Reinsdof is a reactionary owner, and let the pieces fall were they may. Maybe the right piece will fall into our laps and maybe will have a run at the championship, but now I understand we are not going to be very active during this off-season. I guess I am going to jump on the bandwagon and WAIT until 2010.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

[quote=Bulls2night]I agree, we are not going to trade for Josh Smith. I am happy with the signing, at least it shows that Paxson does have a heartbeat and can get something done. I just wish that it didn't take Deng twisting our arm to get the deal done. I have to just come to the fact that Reinsdof is a reactionary owner, and let the pieces fall were they may. Maybe the right piece will fall into our laps and maybe will have a run at the championship, but now I understand we are not going to be very active during this off-season. I guess I am going to jump on the bandwagon and WAIT until 2010]

Actually through certain deals we could have acquired Josh Smith but clearly we arent so ill let that go. How are you happy about your team paying a role player superstar money? It shows Paxson and the bulls org are bad business men. They couldve set back because no team had the cap space for deng and other teams wouldve had to put a nice trade on the table to even get him. Bulls management had leverage and just gave it away. A nice piece we have all these over payed roll players on our team so we def wont get a superstar i.e.- Noc $8.5mill WTF, Hinrich $12mil even though his contract de-escalates but still WTF, DENG- 6yr 70 mil and another 10mil incentive thats crazy. Bulls are not gonna be good and still dont have a superstar cause the best leader on the team is about to be a 2nd yr player and can't lay off the joint.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

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Originally Posted by Crazy Style
Yea they overpaid for Deng, but I guess that's what he thought he was worth. I would have given him something in the range of 54-60 million and not more because he's not worth more money at this point. With a contract like this I hope Deng becomes better than what most of us expect him to become. I sure hope he surprises us all and becomes a beast on the court because he's getting payed all star money.

to be honest... is it really a big deal if he got 12 million more than he is probably worth? it is a lowsy 2 million per year... that gets you a 12th man in the nba....not really a big deal IMO
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

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Originally Posted by drwax26
Actually through certain deals we could have acquired Josh Smith but clearly we arent so ill let that go. How are you happy about your team paying a role player superstar money? It shows Paxson and the bulls org are bad business men. They couldve set back because no team had the cap space for deng and other teams wouldve had to put a nice trade on the table to even get him. Bulls management had leverage and just gave it away. A nice piece we have all these over payed roll players on our team so we def wont get a superstar i.e.- Noc $8.5mill WTF, Hinrich $12mil even though his contract de-escalates but still WTF, DENG- 6yr 70 mil and another 10mil incentive thats crazy. Bulls are not gonna be good and still dont have a superstar cause the best leader on the team is about to be a 2nd yr player and can't lay off the joint.

You're an idiot if you think Deng is a role player. Without considering DRose, he is probably the best player on our team. You can piss and moan all you want about how the bulls had the leverage, but truthfully they didn't. The longer they waited, the more likely Deng would play out the season and hit the market as an UFA next season, that's not much leverage.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

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Originally Posted by babybulls85
You're an idiot if you think Deng is a role player. Without considering DRose, he is probably the best player on our team. You can piss and moan all you want about how the bulls had the leverage, but truthfully they didn't. The longer they waited, the more likely Deng would play out the season and hit the market as an UFA next season, that's not much leverage.

Shut up dumba** you are retarded. Deng is a role player. Is he the leader of the team or even a leader at all for that matter? No. Does he make others better around him? No. Do you want him taking any cluth shot besides an open 2-point? No. Does he lead the team in scoring? No. If he was any kind of star the answers to most of those questions would be yes. But please come up with a list of why he isnt a role player but dont hurt yourself when you cant think of anything.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwax26
Shut up dumba** you are retarded. Deng is a role player. Is he the leader of the team or even a leader at all for that matter? No. Does he make others better around him? No. Do you want him taking any cluth shot besides an open 2-point? No. Does he lead the team in scoring? No. If he was any kind of star the answers to most of those questions would be yes. But please come up with a list of why he isnt a role player but dont hurt yourself when you cant think of anything.



2006-2007 Deng averages 18.8 ppg and 7.1 rpg shooting 52% from the field.
Role player numbers??? No. Far from it. Chris Duhon is a role player. PJ Brown is a role player. James Posey is the most popular role player right now. Role players don't put up fringe all-star numbers. Role players don't carry 25-50% of the scoring load. Role players don't average the second most rebounds on the team.

Then in the playoffs the same year the Bulls defeat the Heat in a sweep with Deng the undisputed #1 reason for victory. He averages 26 and 9 against the defending champs. I forgot role players averaged that much in a 4 game sweep against defending champs of the NBA. Role players don't average the most points or rebounds in a team's only playoff series victory in 10 years.... oh yeah, at the age of 22. And don't forget Deng was being guarded by who in that series a majority of the time???? JAMES POSEY, an actual role player.

Even with not as strong a series next round against Detroit, in which the Bulls lose in 6, Deng still manages to average 22 ppg and 8.7 rpg for the Bulls 10 playoff games combined. How many role player's average those numbers in 10 games in the playoffs? Whatever your answer... don't worry I'll wait.

So to answer one of your stupid questions, he averaged the most points on the team in the playoffs in the most important 10 games of the Bulls org. since MJ retired.

2007-2008 season, known as the season where anything and everything went wrong, Deng has a "down" season but still averages 17 ppg and 6.2 rpg. Are those role player numbers to you??!! Cuz if they are, then you are the least knowledgeable person here. But we all already knew that with your last post I am quoting you on right now.

Deng will never be a superstar, but he will be an all-star caliber player for the next 7-10 years, and Derrick Rose will only make his game easier. I don't know why you find it necessary to rip on Deng, as if he is the reason the Bulls aren't as good as they should be. Dude plays hard, and just because he isn't a vocal leader or always leading the team in points doesn't mean he isn't extremely important and valuable in everything the Bulls do. Ben Gordon has averaged the most points on the Bulls the last 3 seasons, but does that make him the best player???? Of course not.

Luol is 23 years old and already puts up good numbers. Now that he has his financial future secure, he should, and will have no worries. I don't know if your a Bulls fan, but if you are, your support for your team is embarrassing.


And by the way "Drwax", none of what i just said "hurt my head", and I didn't have to "look" far to bring that info to you. I follow the Bulls apparently more than you because all of what I discussed is common knowledge at this point if your a true Bulls fan.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengness9
2006-2007 Deng averages 18.8 ppg and 7.1 rpg shooting 52% from the field.
Role player numbers??? No. Far from it. Chris Duhon is a role player. PJ Brown is a role player. James Posey is the most popular role player right now. Role players don't put up fringe all-star numbers. Role players don't carry 25-50% of the scoring load. Role players don't average the second most rebounds on the team.

Then in the playoffs the same year the Bulls defeat the Heat in a sweep with Deng the undisputed #1 reason for victory. He averages 26 and 9 against the defending champs. I forgot role players averaged that much in a 4 game sweep against defending champs of the NBA. Role players don't average the most points or rebounds in a team's only playoff series victory in 10 years.... oh yeah, at the age of 22. And don't forget Deng was being guarded by who in that series a majority of the time???? JAMES POSEY, an actual role player.

Even with not as strong a series next round against Detroit, in which the Bulls lose in 6, Deng still manages to average 22 ppg and 8.7 rpg for the Bulls 10 playoff games combined. How many role player's average those numbers in 10 games in the playoffs? Whatever your answer... don't worry I'll wait.

So to answer one of your stupid questions, he averaged the most points on the team in the playoffs in the most important 10 games of the Bulls org. since MJ retired.

2007-2008 season, known as the season where anything and everything went wrong, Deng has a "down" season but still averages 17 ppg and 6.2 rpg. Are those role player numbers to you??!! Cuz if they are, then you are the least knowledgeable person here. But we all already knew that with your last post I am quoting you on right now.

Deng will never be a superstar, but he will be an all-star caliber player for the next 7-10 years, and Derrick Rose will only make his game easier. I don't know why you find it necessary to rip on Deng, as if he is the reason the Bulls aren't as good as they should be. Dude plays hard, and just because he isn't a vocal leader or always leading the team in points doesn't mean he isn't extremely important and valuable in everything the Bulls do. Ben Gordon has averaged the most points on the Bulls the last 3 seasons, but does that make him the best player???? Of course not.

Luol is 23 years old and already puts up good numbers. Now that he has his financial future secure, he should, and will have no worries. I don't know if your a Bulls fan, but if you are, your support for your team is embarrassing.


And by the way "Drwax", none of what i just said "hurt my head", and I didn't have to "look" far to bring that info to you. I follow the Bulls apparently more than you because all of what I discussed is common knowledge at this point if your a true Bulls fan.





You bring up very valid arguments and convincing numbers that I agree with somewhat. Why bring up 06-07 we are going into the 08-09 season. Last year he averaged 17.0ppg, 6.3rpg which are good numbers. But just because you put up star numbers doesnt make you a star or else ben gordon would be a star.Once again with all your playoff stats we are talking about now not then. Right now he does not lead the bulls in scoring so actually you r still the dummy.You bring up all these points and just discount your player by saying he will never be a superstar and u are right and he isnt even a star. He plays hard but he is not a STAR which is my point. He has the numbers but he doesnt have the leadership or the killer instinct. That "it" factor. If you put him on a good team he would be a role player. I prolly know a lot more about basketball then you do. I do support the bulls but im realistic and realistically they suck and deng isnt worth 10,11,12 million a yr.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:59 PM   #27
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Post Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengness9
2006-2007 Deng averages 18.8 ppg and 7.1 rpg shooting 52% from the field.
Role player numbers??? No. Far from it. Chris Duhon is a role player. PJ Brown is a role player. James Posey is the most popular role player right now. Role players don't put up fringe all-star numbers. Role players don't carry 25-50% of the scoring load. Role players don't average the second most rebounds on the team.

Then in the playoffs the same year the Bulls defeat the Heat in a sweep with Deng the undisputed #1 reason for victory. He averages 26 and 9 against the defending champs. I forgot role players averaged that much in a 4 game sweep against defending champs of the NBA. Role players don't average the most points or rebounds in a team's only playoff series victory in 10 years.... oh yeah, at the age of 22. And don't forget Deng was being guarded by who in that series a majority of the time???? JAMES POSEY, an actual role player.

Even with not as strong a series next round against Detroit, in which the Bulls lose in 6, Deng still manages to average 22 ppg and 8.7 rpg for the Bulls 10 playoff games combined. How many role player's average those numbers in 10 games in the playoffs? Whatever your answer... don't worry I'll wait.

So to answer one of your stupid questions, he averaged the most points on the team in the playoffs in the most important 10 games of the Bulls org. since MJ retired.

2007-2008 season, known as the season where anything and everything went wrong, Deng has a "down" season but still averages 17 ppg and 6.2 rpg. Are those role player numbers to you??!! Cuz if they are, then you are the least knowledgeable person here. But we all already knew that with your last post I am quoting you on right now.

Deng will never be a superstar, but he will be an all-star caliber player for the next 7-10 years, and Derrick Rose will only make his game easier. I don't know why you find it necessary to rip on Deng, as if he is the reason the Bulls aren't as good as they should be. Dude plays hard, and just because he isn't a vocal leader or always leading the team in points doesn't mean he isn't extremely important and valuable in everything the Bulls do. Ben Gordon has averaged the most points on the Bulls the last 3 seasons, but does that make him the best player???? Of course not.

Luol is 23 years old and already puts up good numbers. Now that he has his financial future secure, he should, and will have no worries. I don't know if your a Bulls fan, but if you are, your support for your team is embarrassing.

Excellent post. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Deng is still growing, and at age 22 put up fringe all-star caliber numbers even though he wasn't the #1 scoring option on the team. Thats a testament to his skill, and he is still improving. An injury slowed him down this year, as well as it being a down year for the rest of the team. Another thing I am real happy to see is that he has cut down on his 3-point attempts. He shot 2/game his rookie season, and 1/game his 2nd season, but only averaged 27%. He has cut that down to about 1 attempt every 2 games now, and his average is up to 37%. His FG% has gone up from 43% to 48% in those 4 years, and he also shot 51% in 06/07. He is taking higher percentage shots, which makes him all the more effective on the floor because guys know he can hit an open jumper. This makes his driving ability very important, and he has become a consistent finisher at the rim.

I don't know if he is worth $12 million/year now, but this first season of the contract is only $9.4 million. That is more than reasonable, and if he continues to improve, I have no objection to paying him in the $14-$15 million range in years 4-6. Don't forget that he will only be 28 and 29 in the final years of his contract, so he will still be in the prime of his career.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

I feel like I should say something about this because I don't think anybody wanted to see Deng replaced (with Josh Smith) more than me. I have known about this deal since last night but i have been too disappointed to comment until now.


I desperately wanted to see Deng put in his place with a thorough reality check this summer. Instead the Bulls cut him an enormous check, effectively rewarding him for a sub-par season and his negotiating tactics. (the ultimatum)


The issue that I want to mention now is my fear of the Bulls not having any real financial power in the future. I think there is going to be a fiscal crisis in Chicago due to this signing and that means that up to three negative things can happen now;

1)The first thing that would be likely to happen is that the Bulls start shipping off players for virtually nothing in return just to try to create cap relief as soon as possible.

Nocioni, cash, AND a first first round pick ( dear gawd, please noooooooooo!!!!!!!!) for Brad Miller anyone??? Don't answer that question, please.

2) The Bulls lose the cap room to make a move for one of the many free-agents come the summer of 2010.

3) Last and absolutely not least...I am petrified to think of what will happen when it is time to re-sign Derrick Rose in a couple of years.

I feel like I am a witness to a crime scene right now... this is sort of like a cross between the "basement scene" in Pulp Fiction and the rape scene with Jodie Foster in the accused.

Somehow I am being forced to watch this despicable act while a bunch a degenerate Deng fanatics cheer on their hero as Reinsdorf and Paxson get raped. "57 million dollars for 5 years Motha-F#%ka??? Let's play a little game of tell me how my 71 million dollars with a chance of rain plus a potential extra 9 million feel up the tailpipe????ARGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!" What a guy that Deng is, huh?

Yeah, well anyway...anybody who thinks that Deng has not set a tone and precedent with his actions and the heist he has achieved is in denial. La la la!

Anyone who believes that Rose and his agent B.J. Armstrong ( yeah , you remember him. The guy that will always hold a grudge against the Bulls for cutting him right after M.J.'s return to basketball ) will not be asking for ****ing-insane money as they attempt to re-sign as merely the former first pick in the draft....lol.

I wonder what team Rose will be playing for 3 years from now? Better keep Hinrich around so we still have a pointguard. Oh that's right, half the Bulls fan want him Kirk gone because they think HE is the real problem on the Bulls team. Riiiiggghhhhhttttttt.

Seriously, all I can think to myself right now is; I wonder if this will be the year Yao and T-mac finally win a championship? Sad times.

Last edited by CelticForce1349 : 07-30-2008 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwax26
You bring up very valid arguments and convincing numbers that I agree with somewhat. Why bring up 06-07 we are going into the 08-09 season. Last year he averaged 17.0ppg, 6.3rpg which are good numbers. But just because you put up star numbers doesnt make you a star or else ben gordon would be a star.Once again with all your playoff stats we are talking about now not then. Right now he does not lead the bulls in scoring so actually you r still the dummy.You bring up all these points and just discount your player by saying he will never be a superstar and u are right and he isnt even a star. He plays hard but he is not a STAR which is my point. He has the numbers but he doesnt have the leadership or the killer instinct. That "it" factor. If you put him on a good team he would be a role player. I prolly know a lot more about basketball then you do. I do support the bulls but im realistic and realistically they suck and deng isnt worth 10,11,12 million a yr.

Alright man, a few more things.

- I am a dummy because he didn't lead the Bulls in PPG last season??? Sorry Ben Gordon averaged, what... a point more???? Even if BG averaged 10 more points, Deng is still far and away the better all around basketball player.

- I went back to 06-07 because that was the last year the Bulls had success, and he was the number one reason for it. He flourished and so did the Bulls. I also bring up his stellar playoff production because although that was in the past, it was also the last time the Bulls were in the playoffs. WHEN IT MATTERED MOST(last playoff appearance), DENG WAS THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE BULLS, and that is non-negotiable.

- You say just because he puts up star numbers, that doesn't make him a star?? Well maybe not an all-star, but ****, that voting is up to the fans which is always unfair. Deng will eventually make an all-star squad and then he will be considered a star to you I'm guessing. To me though, he is already somewhat of a star, until Rose busts out, he is the star of the Bulls for sure if nothing else.

- Luol at this point might not have the leadership abilities or the "killer instinct" down yet, but like it's been said over and over again, he is just 23! Deng will never be a vocal leader, but I know for damn sure, not every star or semi-star in the NBA is a leader for their team. And let me also say that in that Miami series, he had a hell of a killer instinct, dominating that whole squad game and game out, hitting big shot after big shot for the Bulls. Once the Bulls reach the playoffs again, Deng will surely amount to something far and away from a mere role player.

And let me ask Drwax, what kind of sentence is this..."I prolly know alot more about basketball than you do...???? Seriously, WTF is that??? You don't know me for ****, and when I see someone call an NBA player a role player, when they are clearly not, i will call you out.

For all I know, your probably one of the flip-flopping fair weather Bulls fans that thought Deng was worth 10-12 mil a season after he tore up the 06-07 season and playoffs, then decided he was a "role-player" after the disastrous 07-08 season, where not 1 Bulls player had a 100% successful season.

While Deng might be slightly overpaid, he is the best player on the Bulls and to keep him they had to pay an expensive price. I would rather overpay Deng to keep him and let Gordon go, than the other way around.

Until Rose becomes the leader man in Chicago, Luol Deng is the best the Bulls have. Until all the Deng haters realize that, then I can see why your having a hard time digesting the contract.

When Deng averages around 20 and 8 this season, a lot of you people are gonna realize labeling Deng a role player was pathetic, as some of us have already realized.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bulls and Deng agree 6yrs 70 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengness9
Alright man, a few more things.

- I am a dummy because he didn't lead the Bulls in PPG last season??? Sorry Ben Gordon averaged, what... a point more???? Even if BG averaged 10 more points, Deng is still far and away the better all around basketball player.

- I went back to 06-07 because that was the last year the Bulls had success, and he was the number one reason for it. He flourished and so did the Bulls. I also bring up his stellar playoff production because although that was in the past, it was also the last time the Bulls were in the playoffs. WHEN IT MATTERED MOST(last playoff appearance), DENG WAS THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE BULLS, and that is non-negotiable.

- You say just because he puts up star numbers, that doesn't make him a star?? Well maybe not an all-star, but ****, that voting is up to the fans which is always unfair. Deng will eventually make an all-star squad and then he will be considered a star to you I'm guessing. To me though, he is already somewhat of a star, until Rose busts out, he is the star of the Bulls for sure if nothing else.

- Luol at this point might not have the leadership abilities or the "killer instinct" down yet, but like it's been said over and over again, he is just 23! Deng will never be a vocal leader, but I know for damn sure, not every star or semi-star in the NBA is a leader for their team. And let me also say that in that Miami series, he had a hell of a killer instinct, dominating that whole squad game and game out, hitting big shot after big shot for the Bulls. Once the Bulls reach the playoffs again, Deng will surely amount to something far and away from a mere role player.

And let me ask Drwax, what kind of sentence is this..."I prolly know alot more about basketball than you do...???? Seriously, WTF is that??? You don't know me for ****, and when I see someone call an NBA player a role player, when they are clearly not, i will call you out.

For all I know, your probably one of the flip-flopping fair weather Bulls fans that thought Deng was worth 10-12 mil a season after he tore up the 06-07 season and playoffs, then decided he was a "role-player" after the disastrous 07-08 season, where not 1 Bulls player had a 100% successful season.

While Deng might be slightly overpaid, he is the best player on the Bulls and to keep him they had to pay an expensive price. I would rather overpay Deng to keep him and let Gordon go, than the other way around.

Until Rose becomes the leader man in Chicago, Luol Deng is the best the Bulls have. Until all the Deng haters realize that, then I can see why your having a hard time digesting the contract.

When Deng averages around 20 and 8 this season, a lot of you people are gonna realize labeling Deng a role player was pathetic, as some of us have already realized.


Hey what's up Dengness? Did you get the pm I tried to send you on here about 4 days ago? It wasn't that big of a deal, I am just wondering if you received it?

It was just about that obnoxious guy DueceWallaces.
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