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Old 08-01-2008, 02:04 AM   #31
final.wrath
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

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Originally Posted by ZeN


Actuall truth being told, your the only one that is acting in that manor.

Where did you find in this thread, that it placed one race higher than another?


The concept may well have been simplistic and lacking creativity but at least to the reast of us.. it was still about basketball
...

it didn't mention one race being higher than another. thats not what i'm saying. i'm saying it was implied that blacks are at basketball because honestly they are. but i don't think its because they are better athletically. i think its society.

it wasn't about basketball alone. it was about race.

and i just wanted to talk about it, get people's reactions to a little honesty. i have my own issues to work through with race. its hard to treat people as equals, even though they are i ultimately believe, when you have society reinforcing all these stereotypes and notions about people.

but 90% of people just ignore it and pretend its all good and we're past the race problems since the 60's. but its all there. just in different ways. its still a huge ratio of black to whites in jail. but in the media black people are considered cooler and theres a "white guilt" syndrome played upon. also theres tons of stuff like how latinos feel the white people stole their land. its everywhere and I could go on and on.
and when one thinks of racism in todays society you think of mostly white people discriminating. but its everyone, and mostly its the media. and all the races are equally racist and society as a whole is racist.

the motivation to make all these racial threads has a base in something. its not innocent basketball discussion. thats bull.

so lets get down to that something and talk about it. hell we can't even treat our own race of people as equals i guess the problem is a lot deeper than racism. its humanity.

Last edited by final.wrath : 08-01-2008 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

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Originally Posted by Okuni
I didn't mention anything about considering them white, I meant they are German and play for Germany so they can't be in the US team.


Gotcha.. I forgot its a team USA.. thats my fault..
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:12 AM   #33
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

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Originally Posted by final.wrath
the motivation to make all these racial threads has a base in something. its not innocent basketball discussion. thats bull.


actually in the case of this thread, i really think it is.


also, as some others mentioned - chris kaman is american. i believe he was born in michigan. dirk is legitimately a german national but kaman would definitely have been on the American team if they had chosen him.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

how can you have pure basketball discussion when you're grouping players into teams based on race

the racism has exploded EVERYWHERE in the past 6th months. everyone noticing it? more articles, more talks about it... it seems to fit with a "black" guy running for president... but it seems like the media is really pushing it too.

idk man theres been a lot of racial threads lately. and even if you don't think so grouping people into teams based on their race ethnicity is not innocent basketball discussion. thats subconscious issues coming out if you're not doing it consciously. and we ALL have these issues. just by living on this planet.

look at celticforce's reaction. this is how white people are conditioned to react to racism. that we all see colorblind. its not true. he's gotta know that he's irked because this thread is pointing out the fact that blacks could have a better team. the same reason the OP made it... these issues were happening in everybody's mind, subconscious or not.

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Old 08-01-2008, 02:19 AM   #35
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

something can be about race and not be racist. there are different races, and you can talk about them, get over it.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:22 AM   #36
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
from my point of view you have to be having problems with race relations to make a thread like this. lets talk. you claim you're innocently trying to put "one group of people" into a team with no agenda. bull. whether you realize it or not, theres a reason you're doing it.


its about environment. basketball is the "black" sport of this country. white kids are scared to play IMO against black kids because they are taught by society that black people can jump higher, make cooler music, have better style, stronger, have bigger ***** and that size is important so somehow you're inadequate but nobody ever talks about that one do they? thats a mind**** psychologically. thats some freudian ****.

we are kept segregated from each other economically. we speak different dialects. we mistrust each other. we feel akward being the only one in the room full of the other.

there are people who know how to minipulate these feelings. for marketing, for control, for what? these feelings of confusion, hate... sometimes disguised. sometimes pushed out of your mind so you trick yourself into believing, "no, no... i'm not racist." look i'm voting for obama. i have a black friend, (but he talks white but he still counts right?)... or nah man thats not me. well it is you. its society right now. i'm not saying you have to buy into it but being an extroverted member of society you are a part of the racism 99% chance. i don't know man.

but honestly white people if you walked down to the hood right now are you scared of getting robbed because you're a "whiteboy"? i admit i am. or if i do go i'd be more comfortable dressed like a "thug" to fit in with the other white people who "belong" there.

and then threads like this. threads that are ultimately saying, look, black people are better than you at this. whats the motivation? its imbalance. look at when you see white and black players compared. a white guy is always compared to a white guy. like its 2 classes of players. the phrase "great white hope" is thrown around.

but at least im being real about it. the motivations behind this thread and all those threads about race are tribalistic, immature, and IMO outdated. I don't have an Obamaesque empty rhetoric filled solution to race relations. but i think it starts with communication.

and the basketball race related thing I wanna communicate right now is that

a) I think there aren't as many white players is because society tells us basketball is a black sport and black people are better at it
b) I feel you are making this thread as "look at white people they aren't as good as blacks" no matter if you realize it or not
c) we need to recognize the way society is teaching us things about race and race relations. the media pretends to be politically correct in a lot of places but its really not. its really teaching black people they belong in the hood and white people that they aren't as cool.



Seriously, I have no intention of making this a black vs. white thing. For all you know, I could either be saying blacks are so much better at basketball, or from looking at the lineups, I could be saying whites are better shooters and team players. I could've just posted a lineup of the players I've listed and asked how they would do in international competition, and probably no one would've cared about race and stayed on topic. Fact is, there are black people and there are white people, and I was curious to know how white American players would do. I know these black vs white type of topic has been done before, but I just thought it would be interesting to think about how white American players would do in today's international stage.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:26 AM   #37
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

so what you were trying to say is that white people would do better in international competition?

there has to be a reason for grouping the people what was yours. nobody freak out.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:34 AM   #38
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungRich
something can be about race and not be racist. there are different races, and you can talk about them, get over it.


Yes, what you just said is very true. However, I do not consider this thread to be a good example of talking about race without having an agenda.

Talking about race for a more honest intellectual reason is valid and people need to understand that. I am tired of living in a society where to be accused of racism is to suddenly be racist. But this thread has a different intent.

I am not saying the thread starter is undoubtedly racist, but I certainly question the need to have this discussion and my brain can read between the lines. There is something here and to call the topic starter on it by saying either get to the exact point you want to make, or don't bother making this crap is perfectly okay.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:36 AM   #39
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

Actually, after reading final.wrath's post, I see that this topic does bring out an interesting race issue. It appears that the white Team USA seem so much like a team that plays "international style"? You've got a couple of bigs that like to bang inside, make passes, but not exactly the back to the basket type. Then you got a bunch of sharp shooters on the outside.

Imagine if this team were some international team. Would we be talking about this team like we do about Spain and Argentina? Which player(s) would we be most afraid of? It'd be funny seeing posters talk about how we won't be able to stop Mike Miller or how Dwight Howard might have trouble dealing with Jeff Foster. If Greece were able to defeat the previous USA team, I think this team could be even more dangerous.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:40 AM   #40
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

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Originally Posted by applejoe
Actually, after reading final.wrath's post, I see that this topic does bring out an interesting race issue. It appears that the white Team USA seem so much like a team that plays "international style"? You've got a couple of bigs that like to bang inside, make passes, but not exactly the back to the basket type. Then you got a bunch of sharp shooters on the outside.

Imagine if this team were some international team. Would we be talking about this team like we do about Spain and Argentina? Which player(s) would we be most afraid of? It'd be funny seeing posters talk about how we won't be able to stop Mike Miller or how Dwight Howard might have trouble dealing with Jeff Foster. If Greece were able to defeat the previous USA team, I think this team could be even more dangerous.


Okay. So is this what you really wanted to say all along? That this team (because they play a certain way based on the "fact" that white people can only play basketball one particular way) is the team to win the gold? America can't win if it keeps sending so many black players that play differently?
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:41 AM   #41
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

haha so i had it wrong you're playing the angle of white players have a higher basketball iq and aren't selfish

u still had an agenda. but its legit and you don't have to be a racist to think of it idk. a complex issue and i dont understand it.

do you think white players are better at the nuances of the game because they don't have the athleticism and quickness that black players do and thats why they have to excell at "skill" not "talent" areas to make the league?

or do you think the black players are more athletic is wrong and maybe its because black culture in general is more involved in sports and basketball specifically? look at joe alexander, david lee... are black players legitamately more athletic? or that they aren't better at the nuances and the game is colorblind and its about each individual player?

i'm honestly not sure what i believe. i think biology might play a smaller part than most people think. i think its more environment... but then you do see that black people are always winning the high jump, the running events.... or are they? i didnt honestly look. and is that just another case of environment?

its hard to tell. biologically we are different. i dont buy the "they bred slaves strong" crap that i see sometimes because evolution is a VERY slow process. i might give more credence to the theory that africans spent more thousands of years running long distances and uses athleticism than white people generally did. but maybe thats crap too because white people were also doing physcial labor in the fuedal system... but as much as the tribal system? idk.

or maybe the racial athleticism thing isnt true.

Last edited by final.wrath : 08-01-2008 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:43 AM   #42
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

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Originally Posted by CelticForce1349
Okay. So is this what you really wanted to say all along? That this team (because they play a certain way based on the "fact" that white people can only play basketball one particular way) is the team to win the gold? America can't win if it keeps sending so many black players that play differently?

LOL, I just can't win here. I either have to be a white supremest racist or a black panther member boasting about the superiority of black players over whites.
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:18 AM   #43
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

no but you should probably respond to my post since it gets at the real issues behind it

like, why are white players better shooters and ect. read it.
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: How good would Team USA be with only white players?

Why even bother starting a post like this? How is it interesting to discuss how an all-white team would do? America isn't an all-white nation, deal with it.
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